Ego in the sport of triathlon

[eddwalker]

Putting aside this troll issue, which quite frankly I can't see why any of you bother to give the time of day to I think there is a great deal of truth in Tri being a 'selfish' sport. I just finished my first tri this weekend in London and really enjoyed it and I did meet a number of great people there during the day.

Compared to most team sports though, I think the odds are there will be more 'selfish' people involved. However, I wouldn't put tri down as being any worse than singles tennis, cross-country running etc...
Any sport where success is dictated almost entirely by your own effort (no team mates to pull you through or drag you down) will reward someone with a 'selfish' or as others have put it 'driven' attitude. I think training for tri best illustrates it, because it is down to you to make yourself do it. If you don't go for a training session you only let yourself down, not the rest of a team. As such an egocentric person will normally outperform a less egocentric one, all else being equal.

Indeed, despite it only being my first tri, like most people I had my own goals and I was going to try and do everything within my power (and the rules) to make them happen. This meant trying to get near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the ensuing melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible behaviour?

However, truly selfish behaviour i.e. trying to undermine others performances in order to further your own e.g. undoing person's wetsuits in the water or refusing to share a water bottle when someone is clearly thirsty is not something I have experienced although those competing at a higher level than myself will no doubt tell me otherwise. Like most sports the higher the stakes the greater lengths peole will go to to win.

Walks

 

[Hoo Flung Poo]

you make good points about this issue of ego. very good. ego itself is not bad. attachment to that
ego is bad.

hoo

On 5 Aug 2003 21:05:08 +0950, eddwalker <[email protected]> wrote:

>Putting aside this troll issue, which quite frankly I can't see why any of you bother to give the
>time of day to I think there is a great deal of truth in Tri being a 'selfish' sport. I just
>finished my first tri this weekend in London and really enjoyed it and I did meet a number of great
>people there during the day.
>
>Compared to most team sports though, I think the odds are there will be more 'selfish' people
>involved. However, I wouldn't put tri down as being any worse than singles tennis, cross-country
>running etc... Any sport where success is dictated almost entirely by your own effort (no team
>mates to pull you through or drag you down) will reward someone with a 'selfish' or as others have
>put it 'driven' attitude. I think training for tri best illustrates it, because it is down to you
>to make yourself do it. If you don't go for a training session you only let yourself down, not the
>rest of a team. As such an egocentric person will normally outperform a less egocentric one, all
>else being equal.
>
>Indeed, despite it only being my first tri, like most people I had my own goals and I was going to
>try and do everything within my power (and the rules) to make them happen. This meant trying to get
>near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the ensuing
>melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible behaviour?
>
>However, truly selfish behaviour i.e. trying to undermine others performances in order to further
>your own e.g. undoing person's wetsuits in the water or refusing to share a water bottle when
>someone is clearly thirsty is not something I have experienced although those competing at a higher
>level than myself will no doubt tell me otherwise. Like most sports the higher the stakes the
>greater lengths peole will go to to win.
>
>Walks

 

[James Goddard]

"J. Donnelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> See what he means? You're so worried about your precious reputation you can't even take a joke.
>
> Of course Hoo Flung Poo is a troll. But a troll who makes a great point. Lighten up, man.

Sorry, just had to come back for one more troll feeding. From the Giganews acceptable use policy:

Trolling Trolling is the practice of maliciously trying to incite others that use a newsgroup, to
deviate from the stated topic of the group. In other words, trolling is an attempt to anger others
to the point of drawing them into an argument or an off topic debate. Giganews does not tolerate
trolling and will terminate service of those abuse the service in this manner.

Altered Headers Falsifying header lines to obscure the originating server, to attribute a post to
someone else, to falsely indicate moderator approval, or to make an original post look like a
followup are serious abuses of our service and will result in immediate account termination.

Since all of your posts that violate these measures have been forwared to Giganews I'd be looking
for a new usenet provider Mr Donnelly.

James

 

[MJuric]

On 5 Aug 2003 21:05:08 +0950, eddwalker <[email protected]> wrote:

>Putting aside this troll issue, which quite frankly I can't see why any of you bother to give the
>time of day to I think there is a great deal of truth in Tri being a 'selfish' sport. I just
>finished my first tri this weekend in London and really enjoyed it and I did meet a number of great
>people there during the day.
>
>Compared to most team sports though, I think the odds are there will be more 'selfish' people
>involved. However, I wouldn't put tri down as being any worse than singles tennis, cross-country
>running etc... Any sport where success is dictated almost entirely by your own effort (no team
>mates to pull you through or drag you down) will reward someone with a 'selfish' or as others have
>put it 'driven' attitude. I think training for tri best illustrates it, because it is down to you
>to make yourself do it. If you don't go for a training session you only let yourself down, not the
>rest of a team. As such an egocentric person will normally outperform a less egocentric one, all
>else being equal.

I think you could use the above line reasoning to illistrate why triathletes or any other
endurance athlete is for the most part very humble. When we don't PR or don't have a good
race we don't have a team mate or official to blame things on. It's simply you and the
clock, and the clock is rarely wrong. I have on only a few occasions seen any endurance
athletes talk trash like that which goes on constantly in team sports, ranging from
proffesional thru backyard ball. Other than the raising of arms across the finish line I've
never seen a "touch down" dance at a race. And even in the case of the raising of the hands
or thumbs up sign I generally see it as a personal victory not a victory over other
competitors as many mid packers, and end packers do the same thing crossing the line.

>
>Indeed, despite it only being my first tri, like most people I had my own goals and I was going to
>try and do everything within my power (and the rules) to make them happen. This meant trying to get
>near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the ensuing
>melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible behaviour?

That depends. If you are a slow swimmer and start at the front, yes selfish behavoir and
behavior most here woudl condemn. If you belong there then sensible behaviour.

>
>However, truly selfish behaviour i.e. trying to undermine others performances in order to further
>your own e.g. undoing person's wetsuits in the water or refusing to share a water bottle when
>someone is clearly thirsty is not something I have experienced although those competing at a higher
>level than myself will no doubt tell me otherwise. Like most sports the higher the stakes the
>greater lengths peole will go to to win.

Although I've never seen it I'm sure this type of anti-competive behaviour exist. I've
heard of stories of people cutting courses, drafting etc in tri's but never sabatoging
anotehr person.

~Matt

>
>Walks
>
>
>
>--
>This forum is a gateway to the rec.sport.triathlon usenet newsgroup. Any posts you make in this
>forum will be propogated to usenet.

 

[eddwalker]

This meant trying to get
>near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the ensuing
>melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible behaviour?

That depends. If you are a slow swimmer and start at the front, yes selfish behavoir and
behavior most here woudl condemn. If you belong there then sensible behaviour.

Fair point and something I will think about in the future. Having said that the majority of people taking part in London are 1st timers and there was a separate category for the elites and another for those with previously recorded times of under 2hrs 30. Hence I felt I could mix it fairly well with those I was up against. Happily enough my performance vindicated this feeling, but you're right as a novice I probably should have gone to the back of the field and let the 'big boys' get on with it.

Walks

 

[James Goddard]

<MJuric> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >Indeed, despite it only being my first tri, like most people I had my own goals and I was going
> >to try and do everything within my power (and the rules) to make them happen. This meant trying
> >to get near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the
> >ensuing melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible
> >behaviour?
>
> That depends. If you are a slow swimmer and start at the front, yes selfish behavoir and behavior
> most here woudl condemn. If you belong there then sensible behaviour.

If you are doing a mass start (or a wave start where the waves are not based on swim time) then you
should treat the swim start like the start of most marathons. They help by having signs: 6:30 pace
start here, 7:00 pace start here, etc. After a few tri's you will be able to judge where you should
start in the group, but at first it is easiest to just ask those around you what times they expect
and move forward or back as appropriate. Not only does that help you get in the correct place, but
also acts as a reminder to others that they should be doing so.

 

[Hoo Flung Poo]

You must be bored, my friend. You spend too much time trying to get others in trouble. Live and let
live. If feeding trolls is not your mojo, then ignore and move on to something else.

Hoo

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:44:39 -0500, "James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"J. Donnelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> See what he means? You're so worried about your precious reputation you can't even take a joke.
>>
>> Of course Hoo Flung Poo is a troll. But a troll who makes a great point. Lighten up, man.
>
>Sorry, just had to come back for one more troll feeding. From the Giganews acceptable use policy:
>
>Trolling Trolling is the practice of maliciously trying to incite others that use a newsgroup, to
>deviate from the stated topic of the group. In other words, trolling is an attempt to anger others
>to the point of drawing them into an argument or an off topic debate. Giganews does not tolerate
>trolling and will terminate service of those abuse the service in this manner.
>
>Altered Headers Falsifying header lines to obscure the originating server, to attribute a post to
>someone else, to falsely indicate moderator approval, or to make an original post look like a
>followup are serious abuses of our service and will result in immediate account termination.
>
>Since all of your posts that violate these measures have been forwared to Giganews I'd be looking
>for a new usenet provider Mr Donnelly.
>
>James

 

[Hoo Flung Poo]

Indeed. Classic case of nitpicking, methinks. Relax, James you is too uptight.

Hoo

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:18:46 -0500, "James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"James Goddard" <news@earthwarelimited> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Sorry, man. You're right. When I saw the name I thought it was another troll. I stand corrected.
>
>Mr. Donnelly. We can all read Usenet headers and quickly see what a transparent attempt you made to
> fake a post by me. We can also read the headers and see that you are, in fact Hoo Flug Poo.
>
>I am sure, however, that Giganews will be very interested in this.
>
>James

 

[S Austin]

"James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Sorry, just had to come back for one more troll feeding. From the Giganews acceptable use policy:
>
> Trolling Trolling is the practice of maliciously trying to incite others that use a newsgroup, to
> deviate from the stated topic of the group. In other words, trolling is an attempt to anger others
> to the point of drawing them into an argument or an off topic debate. Giganews does not tolerate
> trolling and will terminate service of those abuse the service in this manner.
>

Well the original post _was_ about triathlon, so the "off topic" clause doesn't apply. Guess you'll
have to try and prove malicious intent. Having a critical opinion about a perceived unpleasant
aspect of the sport does not imply malicious intent. I think it's fair to say that "puking before
the swim start" could be considered unpleasant; I don't see how being critical of that is drawing
anyone into an arugment or off-topic debate? There are plenty of things to be critical about in our
sport, and one can critically observe those without malicious intent (that's called "debate" IIRC).

But, now that I think about it, accusing someone of being a troll is both off-topic (this isn't
rec.sport.trolling) and could easily provoke an argument (in fact more than half this thread was
wasted arguing about it)...perhaps you are the troll?

Cheers
S. Austin

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

Mr. Poo,

You are right. Triaflon brings out the worst in folks. Just look at how people rant and rave. They
are in denial. The more they deny it,

As for me,

Queer and Proud of it!

Hoo Flung Poo <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Why do most triathletes have big egos and over inflated opinions of themselves? None of us are
> going to the Olympics and so this is supposed to be for fun, right? I was at a race last weekend
> and some dude threw up at the swim start because he was so nervous.
>
> Am I the only one who thinks we need to lighten up?
>
> HFP

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

Well stated, mate.

Steven

eddwalker <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Putting aside this troll issue, which quite frankly I can't see why any of you bother to give the
> time of day to I think there is a great deal of truth in Tri being a 'selfish' sport. I just
> finished my first tri this weekend in London and really enjoyed it and I did meet a number of
> great people there during the day.
>
> Compared to most team sports though, I think the odds are there will be more 'selfish' people
> involved. However, I wouldn't put tri down as being any worse than singles tennis, cross-country
> running etc... Any sport where success is dictated almost entirely by your own effort (no team
> mates to pull you through or drag you down) will reward someone with a 'selfish' or as others have
> put it 'driven' attitude. I think training for tri best illustrates it, because it is down to you
> to make yourself do it. If you don't go for a training session you only let yourself down, not the
> rest of a team. As such an egocentric person will normally outperform a less egocentric one, all
> else being equal.
>
> Indeed, despite it only being my first tri, like most people I had my own goals and I was going to
> try and do everything within my power (and the rules) to make them happen. This meant trying to
> get near the front of the swim pack at the start so I didn't get caught up too badly in the
> ensuing melee as I was worried about being swum over etc... - is this selfish or just sensible
> behaviour?
>
> However, truly selfish behaviour i.e. trying to undermine others performances in order to further
> your own e.g. undoing person's wetsuits in the water or refusing to share a water bottle when
> someone is clearly thirsty is not something I have experienced although those competing at a
> higher level than myself will no doubt tell me otherwise. Like most sports the higher the stakes
> the greater lengths peole will go to to win.
>
> Walks

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

Headers can be faked, you idiot. Quite trying so hard so be a jerk. If something pisses you
off, ignore it. You really think ISP cares that much? More worried about scams, threats, and
serious problems. Over half the people in here fake their names, except maybe you and I. Give
it a rest, mate.

Steven <- Yes, my real name

"James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "James Goddard" <news@earthwarelimited> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Sorry, man. You're right. When I saw the name I thought it was another troll. I stand corrected.
>
> Mr. Donnelly. We can all read Usenet headers and quickly see what a transparent attempt you made
> to fake a post by me. We can also read the headers and see that you are, in fact Hoo Flug Poo.
>
> I am sure, however, that Giganews will be very interested in this.
>
> James

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

Now that's the way to do it, Penguin. If you don't like something, killfile them! Your boy Goddard
is too uptight - probably because he has ego problems.

Steven

Mike Tennent <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> James Goddard <news@earthwarelimited> wrote:
>
> >Sorry, man. You're right. When I saw the name I thought it was another troll. I stand corrected.
> >
>
> Nothing to correct, James. You were right, it's probably a troll. He just showed up over on
> rec.running, too. Started with a couple of innocuous post, but quickly showed his true colors.
> I've already kill-filed him over there.
>
> As for the original comments, I've found the majority of triathletes to be normal, everyday,
> friendly folks who are quite open and friendly.
>
>
> Mike Tennent "IronPenguin"

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

He might not be, Matt. Nevertheless, I think he makes a good point. It's the nature of the sport -
very technical, very challenging. Brings out the best and worst in folks - sort of like life,
wouldn't you say?

Steven

MJuric wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 20:21:21 GMT, Tom Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >J. Donnelly <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> You're right, dude. Triathletes, by and large, are stuck-up, self-absorbed, and selfish.
> >
> >Funny, in my part of the world that's simply untrue. In fact, the only triathletes that fit your
> >description I've ever run across have been here.
> >
> >And you are one of them.
>
> I suspect that he is not one of them, a triathlete I mean. As far as the first post, simply
> a troll and not a very effective one at that. As far as triathlete's ego's, as in any sport,
> activity or section of life you have people of high ego and low ego. I've met triathletes
> that are a bit stuck on themselves, however I've also met, bikers, runners, football
> players, weightlifters, business men, talk show host, news casters, mothers, fathers.... You
> get the picture who are stuck on themselves. However I've also met many more people falling
> in the same categories that are truly nice people and most are fairly humble. OTOH certain
> groups of people do have a tendancy to attract certain personalities. IMO many of the people
> that are in any type of endurance sport are... "more driven" than most. In a sense one does
> gain a bit of ego doing this type of sport. However having a healthy ego is a bit different
> than being egotistic as the original trollster suggests.
>
> ~Matt
>
>
> ~Matt

 

[Dr. Steven Walk]

Are you going to start quoting the Bible, now? How about your precious Constitution?
Pitiful, Goddard.

Steven

"James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "J. Donnelly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > See what he means? You're so worried about your precious reputation you can't even take a joke.
> >
> > Of course Hoo Flung Poo is a troll. But a troll who makes a great point. Lighten up, man.
>
> Sorry, just had to come back for one more troll feeding. From the Giganews acceptable use policy:
>
> Trolling Trolling is the practice of maliciously trying to incite others that use a newsgroup, to
> deviate from the stated topic of the group. In other words, trolling is an attempt to anger others
> to the point of drawing them into an argument or an off topic debate. Giganews does not tolerate
> trolling and will terminate service of those abuse the service in this manner.
>
> Altered Headers Falsifying header lines to obscure the originating server, to attribute a post to
> someone else, to falsely indicate moderator approval, or to make an original post look like a
> followup are serious abuses of our service and will result in immediate account termination.
>
> Since all of your posts that violate these measures have been forwared to Giganews I'd be looking
> for a new usenet provider Mr Donnelly.
>
> James

 

[Hoo Flung Poo]

Go home bad troll. We remember you ecce.

Hoo

On 5 Aug 2003 21:24:18 -0700, [email protected] (Dr. Steven Walker) wrote:

>Mr. Poo,
>
>You are right. Triaflon brings out the worst in folks. Just look at how people rant and rave. They
>are in denial. The more they deny it,

>
>As for me,
>
>Queer and Proud of it!
>
>
>Hoo Flung Poo <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> Why do most triathletes have big egos and over inflated opinions of themselves? None of us are
>> going to the Olympics and so this is supposed to be for fun, right? I was at a race last weekend
>> and some dude threw up at the swim start because he was so nervous.
>>
>> Am I the only one who thinks we need to lighten up?
>>
>> HFP

 

[James Goddard]

"Dr. Steven Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Headers can be faked, you idiot. Quite trying so hard so be a jerk. If something pisses you
> off, ignore it. You really think ISP cares that much? More worried about scams, threats, and
> serious problems. Over half the people in here fake their names, except maybe you and I. Give
> it a rest, mate.

Posting with a fake name is one thing. Forging headers to make a post appear as if it came from
someone else in the newgroup is another entirely. And weather the Giganews cares or not, it will be
stopped. As for you, we all know the worth of your posts. It seems the only jerks around here are
the ones doing all the complaing about them.

 

[Hoo Flung Poo]

Boys are much too serious. Relax. Live and let live. Who cares about headers, it's what is in your
head that counts!

Hoo

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:15:15 -0500, "James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Dr. Steven Walker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Headers can be faked, you idiot. Quite trying so hard so be a jerk. If something pisses you
>> off, ignore it. You really think ISP cares that much? More worried about scams, threats, and
>> serious problems. Over half the people in here fake their names, except maybe you and I. Give
>> it a rest, mate.
>
>Posting with a fake name is one thing. Forging headers to make a post appear as if it came from
>someone else in the newgroup is another entirely. And weather the Giganews cares or not, it will be
>stopped. As for you, we all know the worth of your posts. It seems the only jerks around here are
>the ones doing all the complaing about them.

 

[su22]

ever met commerce students? Im at Melb uni, but ive been told it's the same everywhere-- a lot of commerce students are arrogant, full of themselves, materialistic, superficial and don't really have a tender spot for wider social issues, community welfare, the enviornment, or non-commerce students!

Triathletes don't even come close to commerce students.

and why do some people throw up before a race? I threw up breakfast at my first tri, and couldnt eat dinner the night before because i was so scared that i'd be completely eaten alive. it was only a little brooks fun triathlon (300/10/3!!) but i had put in the training over the summer holidays, and was scared i'd be beaten by all the fat chicks and old ladies.

i came 80/300, and it was on my dad's mountain bike that's even too big for him, and i think i finished in 49 mins.

but there are a handful of 'triathletes' (who like calling themselves that) who think they're tops. when i registering for my third tri, i saw guy i had recognised from an earlier race (with an air of coolness and wearing one of those open-water swim t-shirts) who had done the BRW-St George tri (400/10/4). i plucked up the courage to say hi and asked him how he went. despite his intimidating looks and almost bragging about his effort, i found out i beat his time by a minute-- he finished in 53min something, and i did it in 52. he was 6ft+, late 20s, athletic-looking and im just a 19 yr old girl. he shut up and didnt like talking to me after that.

i felt bad, but i think he deserves it. and likewise once i found a fat chick beating me on the cycle leg. there are always people better than you, and they don't have to look like elites to prove you wrong.

 

[Steve Holdoway]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:52:58 -0400, J. Donnelly <[email protected]> wrote:

>********, Goddard. You think anything that's critical about the sport is a troll. I for one, agree
>with the post. Obviously not his real name, but who cares.
>
>You're right, dude. Triathletes, by and large, are stuck-up, self-absorbed, and selfish. Althought
>there are some exceptions, it seems to be the norm. Did you know that triathletes have an
>abnormally high divorce rate? Did you also know that triathletes spend more of their disposable
>income on the sport than most other leisure sports, including gold!

...must be different over here in the UK. Sure, I get wound up at the start of a race, but then I'm
a fat old git who doesn't really do enough training. I still have a good time once I've almost
drowned myself at the start of the swim and calmed down! I also have a quick natter to those who
pass me, as well as before and after the race, be they world class triathletes or not.

When I did a flying 3:26 for the London Marathon everyone around me was so intent on doing well (
come on, I was 6 thousandth! ), that it was like they had blinkers on and everyone else was an
irritation!

>
>I don't blame it on the sport - the sport is fine. But for some reason it attracts the worst in
>others. Oh, don't ever ask some for training tips. You'll get an earful about how they train
>correctly and everyone esle is wrong.
>
>Just ask someone about heart rate trianing, for example. You'll start a holy war!
>
>Keep tri-ing, man. Ignore the egotists.
>
>James
>
>On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:37:29 -0500, "James Goddard" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Hoo Flung Poo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Why do most triathletes have big egos and over inflated opinions of themselves? None of us are
>>> going to the Olympics and so this is supposed to be for fun, right? I was at a race last weekend
>>> and some dude threw up at the swim start because he was so nervous.
>>>
>>> Am I the only one who thinks we need to lighten up?
>>
>>Remember folks, don't feed the trolls....