Evangelical Disconnect

[Crankyfeet]

All right then, please name ALL the countries which I can see being invaded on what he called "faux news", his name for the Fox news television network.

Now you're mixing posts. The Faux news post quote was:

Flip on Faux News sometime and watch Bush and his crusade against Islam.

It is very much different. Evangelical christians define "achieving the lifestyle they want" as restricting the rights of others to achieve the lifestyles they want.

In the latest news, conservative loons in West Virginia are attempting to ban Pat Conroy's books.

Where is the reference in this post to countries being invaded?


And in reference to his "countries being invaded" post, he was probably referring to Afghanistan and Iraq, since they are the two countries Dubya has invaded. But you chose to discuss the SINGULAR country Iraq.

You really can't let this go can you?...

 

[garage sale GT]

Oh, look at that. Our arguing has broken the site. It placed my reply just before the post I was replying to.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Nice duck.

as you may recall I didn't think he was talking about war but he set me straight.

No... the nice duck is you avoiding condemning the invason of Iraq as being unchristian when asked to give your opinion.

But you have effectively displayed in here that your answer isn't even worth waiting for... so don't worry about it.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Oh, look at that. Our arguing has broken the site. It placed my reply just before the post I was replying to.

No... you can blame that on me. I accidently deleted the post when I was editing it and had to repost it.

 

[garage sale GT]

No... the nice duck is you avoiding condemning the invason of Iraq as being unchristian when asked to give your opinion.

But you have effectively displayed in here that your answer isn't even worth waiting for... so don't worry about it.

Actually, I was arguing the point that the war was not a crusade against Islam. Whether the coalition was too hasty or too careless or not justified enough by real or perceived threats is not germane to my point.

I guess I don't know why the Popes, the Archbishop of Canterbury, or the Methodists condemn the war, but I don't believe they take the position that it is a war unjustifiably inspired by religious motives. I believe they would probably say we were too hasty, too careless, or not justified enough by the real or perceived threat by our fellow men the Iraquis.

 

[limerickman]

No, I deduced that he was referring to Iraq.

So you deduced that Brodeal was referring to Iraq.

I'll take that as an admission that you now accept that Brodeal never mentioned Iraq and that it was you who intorduced Iraq to the discussion.

Where else did you think we were invading?

.........and as for the accuracy of your deductions, your country also invaded Afghanistan.
Another Muslim country.

 

[garage sale GT]

So you deduced that Brodeal was referring to Iraq.

I'll take that as an admission that you now accept that Brodeal never mentioned Iraq and that it was you who intorduced Iraq to the discussion.

I think you mean it dawned on you we were talking about Iraq when I spelled it out.

 

[garage sale GT]

.........and as for the accuracy of your deductions, your country also invaded Afghanistan.
Another Muslim country.

Al-quaeda was based in and supported by Afghanistan, and they attacked us. Killed 3,000 people in New York.

So how is it included in Bro Deal's comment about a crusade?

How is it not legitimate self-defense?

 

[TheDarkLord]

Al-quaeda was based in and supported by Afghanistan, and they attacked us. Killed 3,000 people in New York. So how is going in there to get Al-quaeda constitute a crusade? How is it not legitimate self defense?

Who created, trained and armed the Taliban, Al Quaeda, etc in the first place?

 

[garage sale GT]

Who created, trained and armed the Taliban, Al Quaeda, etc in the first place?

The Taliban was created by Talibs.

(And the Afghan people in response to lawlessness, even if some of them may feel they got more order than they bargained for.)

Al-Quaeda was created by people like us, because "Al-Quaeda" means "the message board".

For your information, many states sponsor terrorist groups like Al-Quaeda. It's not as if they couldn't have gotten money and training elsewhere.

Hmmm...perhaps when the Soviets were invading Afghanistan, the CIA trained bright young Afghanis how to fly airliners?

Perhaps a rich guy like Osama couldn't have afforded to buy military expertise without the US, especially after the fall of the Soviet Union?

 

[TheDarkLord]

Hmmm...perhaps when the Soviets were invading the CIA trained bright young Afghanis how to fly airliners?

Perhaps a rich guy like Osama couldn't have afforded to buy military expertise without the US, especially after the fall of the Soviet Union?

For your information, many states sponsor terrorist groups like Al-Quaeda. It's not as if they couldn't have gotten money and training elsewhere.

Oh, don't be so patronising. Sure, the terrorist organizations are currently getting money and training elsewhere, but the point is that the US is largely fighting monsters that it created in the first place. BTW, this doesn't excuse all the civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

 

[garage sale GT]

Oh, don't be so patronising. Sure, the terrorist organizations are currently getting money and training elsewhere, but the point is that the US is largely fighting monsters that it created in the first place. BTW, this doesn't excuse all the civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

Why don't you move to Cuba or North Korea if you think we should have let the Soviets take over the world? To Osama and to you I say, so much for gratitude.

What would the cost of not helping the Mujaheddin been?

Insurgent fighters are ex Iraqui army (yes partly our fault) and partly young educated Arabs from outside Iraq who choose to go fight holy war. So their training had next to nothing to do with us, and they were too young and in the wrong place to be ex-Mujaheddin.

And I guess you think that unless the US helped, there is no way 19 terrorists couldn't obtain the funding and planning to learn to fly airliners, from the time the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan until 2001. Maybe they're all a bunch of knuckleheads.

 

[TheDarkLord]

Why don't you move to Cuba or North Korea if you think we should have let the Soviets take over the world? To Osama and to you I say, so much for gratitude.

What would the cost of not helping the Mujaheddin been?

Insurgent fighters are ex Iraqui army (yes partly our fault) and partly young educated Arabs from outside Iraq who choose to go fight holy war. as for their training it had next to nothing to do with us.

And I guess you think that unless the US helped, there is no way 19 terrorists couldn't obtain the funding and planning to learn to fly airliners, from the time the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan until 2001. Maybe they're all a bunch of knuckleheads.

Ok, there is no point arguing with you, and you have missed the point entirely. I'm out of here.

 

[stevebaby]

Al-quaeda was based in and supported by Afghanistan, and they attacked us. Killed 3,000 people in New York.

So how is it included in Bro Deal's comment about a crusade?

How is it not legitimate self-defense?

Actually,the bombers were Saudis and Egyptians...US allies I believe.

 

[garage sale GT]

Actually,the bombers were Saudis and Egyptians...US allies I believe.

I didn't say they were born in Afghanistan. Their place of birth has very little to do with anything.

Even if they had received no training or indoctrination in Afghanistan prior to going to the US and becoming airline pilots, it would not change the fact that the organization which most probably sent and funded them was in Afghanistan. We may have buried the next 19 suicide bombers in a cave in Tora Bora.

Maybe "based" is the wrong word; they were training in Orlando. I should have said "headquartered, in all probability".

 

[garage sale GT]

Ok, there is no point arguing with you, and you have missed the point entirely. I'm out of here.

So sorry for disagreeing, regret to see you don't formulate your feelings about my country based on fact.

 

[Hypnospin]

iraq became an enemy of the us due to their not playing nice with the rules imposed by the world bank, imf, wto, g8, and others by exerting control of their own resources and using their own currency in place of the us-approved petro dollar.

afghanistan was slated for oil pipeline construction for black sea oil, this was planned by cheneys efforts with haliburton. when the taliban were sent packin with a lowball offer they of course declined, this put the plan on hold which created another enemy for the us. both the above are part of the 50+ year plan to maintain the wealth of us-multinational billionaire families and friends of the bush regime, the true constituents of the us gov't.

remember, when the afghanis were fighting the soviets they were noble freedom fighters. now when the same scenario has the us in the sights they are conveniently labled by the commercial media as insurgents explicitly and muslims by implication...

what would our founding fathers (in the us) be called today one wonders...

sheesh, that some would need to be set straight by the correction you offer here s-babe, shows some forget or fail to acknowlege these facts, it is as if history is being re-written to suit in real time.

Actually,the bombers were Saudis and Egyptians...US allies I believe.

 

[garage sale GT]

iraq became an enemy of the us due to their not playing nice with the rules imposed by the world bank, imf, wto, g8, and others by exerting control of their own resources and using their own currency in place of the us-approved petro dollar.

afghanistan was slated for oil pipeline construction for black sea oil, this was planned by cheneys efforts with haliburton. when the taliban were sent packin with a lowball offer they of course declined, this put the plan on hold which created another enemy for the us. both the above are part of the 50+ year plan to maintain the wealth of us-multinational billionaire families and friends of the bush regime, the true constituents of the us gov't.

remember, when the afghanis were fighting the soviets they were noble freedom fighters. now when the same scenario has the us in the sights they are conveniently labled by the commercial media as insurgents explicitly and muslims by implication...

what would our founding fathers (in the us) be called today one wonders...

sheesh, that some would need to be set straight by the correction you offer here s-babe, shows some forget or fail to acknowlege these facts, it is as if history is being re-written to suit in real time.

Ridiculous troll or typical ignorant liberal? you decide.

I don't think we invaded Afghanistan because we were under the impression that the 9/11 hijackers were born there rather than Saudi Arabia or Egypt. In fact I don't think their place of birth figured heavily into the decision at all.

They were members of a terrorist organization which was based in Afghanistan and was busy in Afghanistan training other terrorists. Hundreds of them.

I suppose you think it was OK for Afghanistan to host this group because they didn't like the way some business deals turned out?????

 

[Bro Deal]

Funny how two guys from the oil business get into the Whitehouse and all the countries they attack or plan to attack have oil or access to oil. Pure coincidence, I am sure.

I don't think we invaded Afghanistan because we were under the impression that the 9/11 hijackers were born there rather than Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

Yes, because rightwing nutters have always been so accurate about where the enemies in their neverending war come from. It's not like a huge proportion of them thought the hijackers were Iraqis, trained by Iraqis, or acting under Iraqi control.

 

[garage sale GT]

Funny how two guys from the oil business get into the Whitehouse and all the countries they attack or plan to attack have oil or access to oil. Pure coincidence, I am sure.

So, if not for the oil, we'd leave them alone, I guess. To train more terrorists after they killed 3000 New Yorkers.