Planning CTL ramp

[normZurawski]

No. (CTL + (4 x ramp)) was the daily value, so multiply the whole thing by 7. I'll try again using weekly values.

I think we're saying the same thing. CTL + (4 x ramp)) for the daily value. His ramp was 5, so it comes to 4x5=20 for the daily increase, or CTL+20. Then multiplying by 7 gives you 7 x CTL + 140, which would be your current load (7 x CTL) plus the increase (140). No?

Granted, the 4 in the above example gets turned into a 6, due to Ale's contribution. So that works out to 6x5x7=210 TSS/week increase over current CTL.

 

[frenchyge]

I think we're saying the same thing. CTL + (4 x ramp)) for the daily value. His ramp was 5, so it comes to 4x5=20 for the daily increase, or CTL+20. Then multiplying by 7 gives you 7 x CTL + 140, which would be your current load (7 x CTL) plus the increase (140). No?

Yes. I took exception to your previously bolded statement because I didn't think that also meant multiplying the current CTL by 7. My bad.

 

[amartinez]

D'oh! You're right. The spreadsheet I was playing with had a 28d CTL constant at the time, which affects the TSS offset needed. Use +6 instead for a 42d CTL constant.

No. (CTL + (4 x ramp)) was the daily value, so multiply the whole thing by 7. I'll try again using weekly values.

With the CTL decaying, TSS bumps due to (e.g.) riding only 4x /wk, RMS averaging ( ), etc., it gets a little more 'approximate' when you start multiplying by 7 for the weekly values. But, I think using "[Current CTL + (6 * desired weekly ramp rate)] x 7 = Current week TSS goal" will get you pretty close for a 42d CTL constant.

Now, if someone else wants to out-geek me, I will gladly concede.

Edit: Oops -- too late. Nice job Ale.

Frenchy, the original idea was yours, I only did the dirty work

The weekly increment in Tss is not 7 x Delta because Delta adds to previous CTL value not previous Tss value.

If you train the same Tss all days of the week (for simplicity sake) the weekly increment in weekly Tss will be 7 (o 1 in Tss/d) to give a weekly CTL increment of 1.

Ex: initial CTL=50

Week1: 56 Tss/d -> 395 Tss/w
Week2: 57 Tss/d -> 402 Tss/w
...
WeekN: (50+6+N-1) Tss/d -> 7x(50+6+N-1) Tss/w

gives a linear CTL with "ramp" = 1:
End of Week1: 51
End of Week1: 52
...
End of WeekN: 50+N

The general idea would be:

- initial weekly load: initial CTL + 7 x 6 x Ramp
- increment in weekly load: 7 x Ramp

For 5 Tss/week increment in CTL:

- initial weekly load: initial CTL+210
- increment in weekly load: 35

Ale Martinez.

 

[frenchyge]

Frenchy, the original idea was yours, I only did the dirty work

I meant "too late, I've already been out-geeked (ie, Ale's already improved my rough figures)." I appreciate the help on the math. While I figured it out, I couldn't prove why it worked.

The general idea would be:

- initial weekly load: initial CTL + 7 x 6 x Ramp
- increment in weekly load: 7 x Ramp

For 5 Tss/week increment in CTL:

- initial weekly load: initial CTL+210
- increment in weekly load: 35

See, this part's wrong Ale. If I'm starting from a CTL of 70, my Week 1 TSS to get that CTL up to 75 needs to be 700, not CTL+210=70+210=280. 700 TSS/w is 100 TSS/d, which is the (CTL + (6 x ramp)).

 

[amartinez]

See, this part's wrong Ale. If I'm starting from a CTL of 70, my Week 1 TSS to get that CTL up to 75 needs to be 700, not CTL+210=70+210=280. 700 TSS/w is 100 TSS/d, which is the (CTL + (6 x ramp)).

Oh yes, You are right, I have problems with parethesis

The general idea would be (corrected):

- initial weekly load: initial 7x(CTL+ 6 x Ramp)
- increment in weekly load: 7 x Ramp

For 5 Tss/week increment in CTL=70 (corrected):

- initial weekly load: initial 7x(70+30)=700
- increment in weekly load: 7x5=35

BTW, the initial weekly load calculates this way isn't exactly as in your original method (would be 715 instead of 700) but is pretty close, a closer aprox. would be: 7x(CTL+6.43xRamp-0.07), but the difference is minor.

 

[Alex Simmons]

I believe he means CTL(current) + 4/day, so add 28 TSS/week to raise CTL by 1 for the week.

So if you want to raise by 5, you need 28x5=140 TSS per week increase.

I believe I just read something about a +3 CTL/week boost being the recommended limit - Alex may have posted something to that effect.

As Ric said, 7-8 points is usually considered a sustainable upper end for a CTL weekly ramp rate. What rate is right for each individual will vary due to:
1. their individual capacity to train
2. where (and how) they set their FTP

I have previously made the mistake of not properly setting FTP - and seeing after the fact that my CTL ramp rate was in fact much higher than I thought. RPE / diary notes backed up this fact and was indeed a sign that perhaps I had FTP wrong (it was one of those phases without a standard FTP test).

As I posted with my recent PMC here:

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2006/10/my-performance-manager-chart.html

I have been on a modest 3.5 CTL points/wk ramp for last couple of months. Yet this has elicited some personal best performances along the way...