Site to watch for TDF04 detailed route?

[David Wuertele]

I know that the start/finish towns are listed at

http://www.letour.fr/2004/presentationus/parcours.html

Will the detailed route be published on www.letour.fr/2004
like this, or will it be somewhere else?

I have heard from one source that they will only publish
checkpoints, but another source told me they will publish
actual streets. Does anyone know?

Dave

 

[Richard Adams]

David Wuertele wrote:
> I know that the start/finish towns are listed at
>
> http://www.letour.fr/2004/presentationus/parcours.html
>
> Will the detailed route be published on www.letour.fr/2004
> like this, or will it be somewhere else?
>
> I have heard from one source that they will only publish
> checkpoints, but another source told me they will publish
> actual streets. Does anyone know?
>
> Dave

I think the end of May, if prior years have been any
indication. It's got to be a bit of a panic for the
publishers of guides and specials, like the VN and CS
issues.

Reading Tim Moore's French Revolutions, he indicated the
exact routes are known earlier, but in some typically french
way not everyone knows it at the same time, because even
years ago it was Top Secret. Best to just keep looking at
the letour.fr site every day.

 

[Ariege]

David Wuertele <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I know that the start/finish towns are listed at
>
> http://www.letour.fr/2004/presentationus/parcours.html
>
> Will the detailed route be published on www.letour.fr/2004
> like this, or will it be somewhere else?

It will be on that site. Normally it appears sometime in
May, with the road numbers between towns but not the names
of the streets within them, except for Paris.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsk]

> I have heard from one source that they will only publish
> checkpoints, but another source told me they will publish
> actual streets. Does anyone know?

Dave: In about a month or so the official website will put
up a page that looks like this-

http://www.letour.fr/2003/us/horaire.oft?service=RaceServer-
&RaceType=TDF&RaceYear=2003&StageNumber=2000&Language=ANG

It will give you towns, road numbers, and expected arrival
times based on three different average speeds (slow,
medium, fast). That's as much detail as you'll find from an
official source, but it's more than enough to figure out
the race route.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Mister Max]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> posted:

>> I have heard from one source that they will only publish
>> checkpoints, but another source told me they will publish
>> actual streets. Does anyone know?
>
> Dave: In about a month or so the official website will put
> up a page that looks like this-
>
> http://www.letour.fr/2003/us/horaire.oft?service=RaceServ-
> er&RaceType=TD
> F&RaceYear=2003&StageNumber=2000&Language=ANG
>
> It will give you towns, road numbers, and expected arrival
> times based on three different average speeds (slow,
> medium, fast). That's as much detail as you'll find from
> an official source, but it's more than enough to figure
> out the race route.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Beside the description of the route on letour.fr, you'll
need a detailed map - Michelin's most detailed or ICN. You
might want to get the map now.
- Max

--
MisterMax Slideshows of Angkor Wat, Bali, Crete, France,
Malaysia, Maui, Morocco, Mt Holly, Sicily, St Tropez,
Singapore, Thailand, Tour de France: http://buten.net/max/
(Yes,RemoveDoubles is part of my email address. The double
letters in my last name are not.)

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 16:48:20 -0500, Mister Max wrote:
> you'll need a detailed map - Michelin's most
> detailed or ICN.

Michelin 1:200,000s, the yellow foldables, work fine, all
the departemental (provincial) roads are on there.

 

[David Wuertele]

Ewoud> Michelin 1:200,000s, the yellow foldables, work fine,
Ewoud> all the departemental (provincial) roads are on
Ewoud> there.

I looked on Michelin's website, and on Amazon, for these
maps, but I did not find them. Any pointers to an on-
line source?

Thanks, Dave

 

[Mister Max]

David Wuertele <[email protected]> posted:

> Ewoud> Michelin 1:200,000s, the yellow foldables, work
> Ewoud> fine, all the departemental (provincial) roads are
> Ewoud> on there.
>
> I looked on Michelin's website, and on Amazon, for these
> maps, but I did not find them. Any pointers to an on-
> line source?
>
> Thanks, Dave
>

J L Smith, my area's map store, stocks Michelin maps. 333 S
Henderson Rd King of Prussia PA 19406 610 265 6277

On the web, I see www.laguagequest.com, who don't list the
yellow maps on their site.

--
MisterMax Slideshows of Angkor Wat, Bali, Crete, France,
Malaysia, Maui, Morocco, Mt Holly, Sicily, St Tropez,
Singapore, Thailand, Tour de France: http://buten.net/max/
(Yes,RemoveDoubles is part of my email address. The double
letters in my last name are not.)

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Tuesday 11 May 2004 05:03, David Wuertele wrote:
>> Michelin 1:200,000s, the yellow foldables
>
> did not find them. Any pointers to an on-line source?

http://www.shop.viamichelin.fr/csasp_editorial.asp?id=93 See
bottom of the page "Cartes locales France" or, all of them
bundled together, "Atlas Routier France". This page from
Michelin links to one online seller, don't know if that is
the only one. Also for sale on every streetcorner of France,
for EUR 4 or so.

 

[David Wuertele]

I already own the "Michelin France Tourist and Motoring Atlas
(Michelin Tourist and Motoring Atlas: France, 6th Ed (Spiral, Large
Format))":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/206100234X/104-1383737-0805530?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I'm trying to determine if there are any more detailed maps
available. I read on this group that this website:

http://www.shop.viamichelin.fr/csasp_editorial.asp?id=93

has the most detailed maps, near the bottom, labeled "Cartes
locales France". Even though I can find these maps for sale:

http://www3.fnac.com/item/node.do?NID=3409536&SID=cd8c82b-
f%2D4e60%2Da850%2D0d35%2Dd9d815043aff&UID=04ca41109%2D4a5-
a%2D9466%2D9b2e%2D56e225da432b&AID=&Origin=VIAMICHELIN&TT-
L=260520040502

I am unable to determine their scale. If these maps are the
same scale as the spiral-bound atlas I already own, there
would be no benefit to buying them. Anybody know?

Dave

 

[Robert Chung]

David Wuertele wrote:
> has the most detailed maps, near the bottom, labeled
> "Cartes locales France". Even though I can find these maps
> for sale:
>
>
http://www3.fnac.com/item/node.do?NID=3409536&SID=cd8c82bf-
%2D4e60%2Da850%2D0d35%2Dd9d815043aff&UID=04ca41109%2D4a5a%-
2D9466%2D9b2e%2D56e225da432b&AID=&Origin=VIAMICHELIN&TTL=2-
60520040502
>
> I am unable to determine their scale.

Those are mostly 1:175000.

 

[Roy Ellefsen]

"David Wuertele" <[email protected]> skrev i melding news:[email protected]...
> I already own the "Michelin France Tourist and Motoring
> Atlas (Michelin Tourist and Motoring Atlas: France, 6th Ed
> (Spiral, Large Format))":
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
> /206100234X/104-1383737-0805530?%5Fencoding=UTF8
>
> I'm trying to determine if there are any more detailed
> maps available. I read on this group that this website:
>
> http://www.shop.viamichelin.fr/csasp_editorial.asp?id=93
>
> has the most detailed maps, near the bottom, labeled
> "Cartes locales France". Even though I can find these maps
> for sale:
>
>
http://www3.fnac.com/item/node.do?NID=3409536&SID=cd8c82bf%-
2D4e60%2Da850%2D0d35%2Dd9d815043aff&UID=04ca41109%2D4a5a%2D-
9466%2D9b2e%2D
56e225da432b&AID=&Origin=VIAMICHELIN&TTL=260520040502
>
> I am unable to determine their scale. If these maps are
> the same scale as the spiral-bound atlas I already own,
> there would be no benefit to buying them. Anybody know?
>
> Dave

The scale of the "cartes locales" is slightly different from
those in your touring atlas, mostly in the 1:150 000-1:175
000 range, but the content and the level of detail are
exactly the same (excepting the fact that the cartes locales
tend to be newer and contain more updated information).
Thus, you should stick to the atlas unless you want maps
that are slightly easier to read. Another note: the Motoring
Atlas has a notoriously bad index. The cartes locales are no
better and have only very rudimentary index information.

The only alternative to the Michelin series would be the TOP
100 from IGN, formerly known as the "Green Series". These
cover all of France in a 1:100 000 scale. I don't think you
should buy these either as the topograhpic information makes
them more difficult to use as roadmaps.

http://www.ign.fr/affiche_rubrique.asp?rbr_id=1079&lng_id=FR
http://www.stanfords.co.uk/seriesdetails/mapseries?series_i-
d=297&loc_id=661&cat_id=568&seriescount=74

--
Roy Ellefsen

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 08:28:14 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>> labeled "Cartes locales France". I am unable to determine
>> their scale.
>
>Those are mostly 1:175000.

Really? Aren't these just the yellow ones (bundled in the
atlas with spiral back) that are all 1:200,000? I have a
green one ("routière et touristique" but they're called
"Zoom" now) that is 1:100,000.

Anyhow, the 1:200,000 Michelins are just fine if you stay on
the road; all roads between villages are there.
Alternatively you could use the maps from the Institut
Géographique National (IGN), available in
1:25,000 ("TOP25", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/3531ET.jpg or
"série bleue", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/Listrac3.jpg),
1:50,000 ("série orange", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/2611-
soissons.gif) and 1:100,000 ("TOP100", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/68-
toulon.gif). They have an online "boutique" but only in
French, don't know if they ship outside of France.

 

[Robert Chung]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 08:28:14 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>>> labeled "Cartes locales France". I am unable to
>>> determine their scale.
>>
>> Those are mostly 1:175000.
>
> Really? Aren't these just the yellow ones (bundled in the
> atlas with spiral back) that are all 1:200,000?

I thought so, too, so I just checked the two that I have and
they're both
1:175000. I also have the spiral bound 1:200000 Atlas
Routier, but the yellow ones don't have any additional
detail -- they're just printed very slightly bigger.

Not that it really helps. You need a sharp-eyed map-reading
co-pilot to go someplace new. French maps and signage don't
allow a solo driver to get anywhere unless he already knows
the way; I think they're just for affirmation.

 

[Mike Owens]

I have a number of the 1:100,000 maps obtained from
omniresources.com. Many of these maps (especially ones
dealing with major tourist areas) are also available at
'real' map stores in most large cities. -Mike

"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 08:28:14 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
> >> labeled "Cartes locales France". I am unable to
> >> determine their scale.
> >
> >Those are mostly 1:175000.
>
> Really? Aren't these just the yellow ones (bundled in the
> atlas with spiral back) that are all 1:200,000? I have a
> green one ("routière et touristique" but they're called
> "Zoom" now) that is 1:100,000.
>
> Anyhow, the 1:200,000 Michelins are just fine if you stay
> on the road; all roads between villages are there.
> Alternatively you could use the maps from the Institut
> Géographique National (IGN), available in
> 1:25,000 ("TOP25", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/3531ET.jpg
> or "série bleue",
> http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/Listrac3.jpg), 1:50,000
> ("série orange", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/2611-
> soissons.gif) and 1:100,000 ("TOP100", http://www.ign.fr/images/GP/68-
> toulon.gif). They have an online "boutique" but only in
> French, don't know if they ship outside of France.

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 15:20:35 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
> 1:175000.

I have 6 or 7 of them lying around and they're all 1:200000,
but maybe the 1:175000 print is new; mine are 5 or 10 years
old I think.

> I think they're just for affirmation.

Haha! Well I always go to mountainous areas (or the côte
d'azur) and no problems there to navigate with map and
signs, but not many alternative routes of course.

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Robert Chung <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not that it really helps. You need a sharp-eyed map-
> reading co-pilot to go someplace new. French maps and
> signage don't allow a solo driver to get anywhere unless
> he already knows the way; I think they're just for
> affirmation.

I bought a mapping GPS a few years back. At the time I
thought it was pretty decadent, but it has proven to be very
valuable when driving in places with indifferent road
signage. Like France.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Robert Chung]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 15:20:35 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>> 1:175000.
>
> I have 6 or 7 of them lying around and they're all
> 1:200000, but maybe the 1:175000 print is new; mine are 5
> or 10 years old I think.

Yeah, those are the old ones. I have a couple of them,
too. However, the old yellow series has been replaced
with the new yellow series sometime within the last year
or so. The new ones are printed on slightly nicer paper
at mostly 1:175000.

>> I think they're just for affirmation.
>
> Haha! Well I always go to mountainous areas (or the côte
> d'azur) and no problems there to navigate with map and
> signs, but not many alternative routes of course.

When I was a kid I used to think that Cartesian coordinates
were pretty natural and couldn't figure out why Descartes
got credit for such a revolutionary innovation. Then I
moved to France and learned that there ain't a single
intersection in this entire country that is at a right
angle. The other thing I learned is that, unlike the U.S.,
driving here means never being able to say, "drive 'round
the block and pick me back up." You could be standing there
for two days. The French signs I still shake my head at are
the ones that say "Toutes directions." That's just sad.
They might as well have put up a sign that says, "We give
up, you're on your own."

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 15:58:20 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>means never being able to say, "drive 'round the block and
>pick me back up." You could be standing there for two days.

Yeah, welcome to the old world. For my part, I can't imagine
the monotony of endless square blocks of housing. It's
always the first thing that catches my eye in US aerial
photos, like the ones from the Californian fires last year.

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

Meanwhile, Cunego is deciding the Giro. Funny that Popovych
predicted it himself yesterday in the Italian papers:
"Cunego will attack on the Furcia, and I will not react."