Your preference of drink for Long Rides?

[Roadie_scum]

I guess I don't understand the chemical names then because I keep reading that certain protein types are used as part of your body's fueling -- with or without enough carbs -- something to the tune of 2-10 percent. Here's one particular page but I'd be happy to point you to others. It is hard to understand without a full understanding of what protiens are, how they work, etc... and I'm not a doc ...

http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/258/rt42.cfm?pid=38

I'm normally skeptical of random links to pages on the net, but that one seems excellent! Mark Hargreaves PhD (one of the authors) is a very capable sports scientist from my neck of the woods.

The main points I'd take from the article for the purposes of this thread are that:

1. The contribution of protein to energy requirements in endurance exercise is very low.

2. In theory, amino acids (broken down protein) could contribute to carbohydrate metobolism in exercise, but there is no evidence this occurs or has any bearing on sports performance.

3. Amino acid supplementation is a waste of time and money.

Additionally, there is no need to consume supplementary protein during endurance exercise - much better to consume CHO and prevent glycogen depletion.

 

[mtbjr]

Well, I prefer an ice-cold martini - Citadelle gin at least 7:1 to Noilly Prat vermouth. Served up with a twist. But they do play hob with long rides.


HELL YA

but i tride riding after a party and fell to maney times so now i stick with bawls guarana 2 times teh caffine of red bull

 

[Jhikers]

There is *NO* reason to consume protein during exercise. Your LBS is flat out wrong, although it's a common mistake.
QUOTE]


It seems Roadie's posts have come under a fair bit of scrutiny... unfortunately all of them are warranted.

Can you justify this comment at all?!!

Protein is one of the MAJOR ingredients of nutrition that one should consume during prolonged exercise.

RECOVERY - that's what it's all about... rebuilding your muscles. It has been shown in scientific studies that athletes consuming protein within 15 mins of completing a strength session recover substantially quicker for the next day, almost 3 fold.

Why WOULDN'T you start recovery immediately... while you're doing the exercise?!

 

[Roadie_scum]

There is *NO* reason to consume protein during exercise. Your LBS is flat out wrong, although it's a common mistake.
QUOTE]


It seems Roadie's posts have come under a fair bit of scrutiny... unfortunately all of them are warranted.

Can you justify this comment at all?!!

The primary scrutiny I saw was because I miscalculated the sugar content of a soft drink (sorry) after a long ride. I thought it didn't make sense either and was pleased to be corrected (as I indicated).

Protein is one of the MAJOR ingredients of nutrition that one should consume during prolonged exercise.

RECOVERY - that's what it's all about... rebuilding your muscles. It has been shown in scientific studies that athletes consuming protein within 15 mins of completing a strength session recover substantially quicker for the next day, almost 3 fold.

Of course strength athletes have greater protein requirements than endurance athletes (which is what we're talking about here), but even they probably tend to overeat rather than undereat protein.

The amount of protein needed in recovery by an endurance athlete is relatively small. Between 10% and 20% of total calories, most likely, although the literature is inconclusive. The rest (immediately following endurance exercise - not for overall diet) should come from CHO with a high glycaemic index.

Why WOULDN'T you start recovery immediately... while you're doing the exercise?!

Because protein slows gastric emptying and confers no ergogenic advantage. It's been confirmed in lots of studies - have a look on pubmed for studies on protein or amino acid supplementation during exercise. There is one study that contradicts my position, but that involved feeding athletes drinks with different total calorific content and is thus troublesome methodologically.

I'm talking about endurance athletes - I'm no expert on the requirements of strength athletes and never claimed to be.

 

[Jhikers]

I'm talking about endurance athletes - I'm no expert on the requirements of strength athletes and never claimed to be.

"Strength sessions", not strength athletes...

Any successful endurance athlete will complete at least two of these sessions a week to improve their strength during training season.

Endurance athletes need to be bloody strong!!!

 

[ric_stern/RST]

"Strength sessions", not strength athletes...

Any successful endurance athlete will complete at least two of these sessions a week to improve their strength during training season.

Endurance athletes need to be bloody strong!!!

try reading the gym thread in the other forum. again you're spouting rubbish ;-)

elite endurance cyclists are, on average, no stronger than age, gender and mass matched healthy, sedentary controls

being exceptionally strong is no advantage and possibly a disadvantage to an endurance racing cyclist.

ric

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Of course strength athletes have greater protein requirements than endurance athletes (which is what we're talking about here), but even they probably tend to overeat rather than undereat protein.

hate to make this correction Roadie Scum, as it may dilute the rest of your post which is spot on. i just wanted to add that the highest protein requirements are actually in endurance athletes -- cyclists who compete in Grand Tours (i.e., TdF). The suggested RNI for these groups is ~ 2.0 g of protein per kg body mass, and this can be met with a normal diet.

ric

 

[Salsa Rider]

since I'm just starting to experiment with the "goo" food (gels), I'm still a little confused as to what is the different names for the same thing. IE. clif shot's primary ingredient is Brown Rice Syrup, hammer gel's "long strand malto-dextrin" isnt malto dextrin just the simple sugars of a grain that has been spouted (malted)??

Also, why is it that the hotter your internal temperature goes the harder it is to eat just about anything. Energy Bars (bar food) sit in my stomach like rocks when I'm hot, even when I eat just a bite or two and take on an equal amount of fluid at the time.

 

[Roadie_scum]

hate to make this correction Roadie Scum, as it may dilute the rest of your post which is spot on. i just wanted to add that the highest protein requirements are actually in endurance athletes -- cyclists who compete in Grand Tours (i.e., TdF). The suggested RNI for these groups is ~ 2.0 g of protein per kg body mass, and this can be met with a normal diet.

ric

Ric,

I'm always happy to be corrected when the correction is accurate. That's one of the great things about this forum. As I said earlier, I know nothing about strength athletes. My statement about protein requirements in strength athletes was based on hearsay (from strength athletes training for hypertrophy).

Additionally, the AIS fact sheet 'how to grow muscles' suggests athletes seeking to gain muscle mass may have protein requirements of up to 2g protein/kg body mass. This would suggest that in extreme conditions strength and endurance athletes have similar requirements. I've always found AIS recommendations to be accurate - happy to be told otherwise though.

Cheers.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,

I'm always happy to be corrected when the correction is accurate. That's one of the great things about this forum. As I said earlier, I know nothing about strength athletes. My statement about protein requirements in strength athletes was based on hearsay (from strength athletes training for hypertrophy).

Additionally, the AIS fact sheet 'how to grow muscles' suggests athletes seeking to gain muscle mass may have protein requirements of up to 2g protein/kg body mass. This would suggest that in extreme conditions strength and endurance athletes have similar requirements. I've always found AIS recommendations to be accurate - happy to be told otherwise though.

Cheers.

Me too! The anecdotal stuff from athletes -- as you're well aware -- can and often is wrong. i've seen recommendations from athletes of e.g., double the upper limit...

the actual research i've seen, and i'm going from memory, is something like to gain mass you need ~1.8 g/kg and sometimes up to 2.0 g/kg, whereas the (e.g.) TdF riders need ~2.0 g/kg, in other words just marginally higher.

The AIS stuff is usually pretty good.

ric

 

[mattp71]

Cytomax is my drink of choice while going hard. A+ pace I go through 22oz in about 45 minutes. Usually I do not ride more than 40 miles at that speed, so by the time the 2nd bottle is empty we are usually back.

By that time I am craving regular water big time, and drink that (I carry 1/2 gallon jug) along with my Endurox recovery drink..which tastes awesome (Fruit Punch) when chilled in a cooler. Usually after a ride I also try and eat one of those protein power bars - all in 30 minutes.

I've learned the hard way that outside the 30 minute window I pay dearly the next day. Also hot bath's after...as hot as you can stand. I would prefer a jacuzzi, but I don't own one of them and my apartment manager will not put one in hehe