SUV Protest

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:45:32 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Bill Sornson"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Yeah Bill, cars really do suck.

But you still use 'em. Puzzling.

I also use an Shop-Vac and an Electrolux.

You had a point?

That you'd look rather silly if you ranted and raved about Shop-Vacs and
Electroluxes (AND their users). That's all.

You don't want to hear the vacuum rant. I dislike having to use any
tool with a cord at one end and a hose at the other. Power washers are
the worst. They've two hoses and a cord.

I don't drive by "choice". I'm sometimes required to chauffer my
employer in their car. We're all safer when they're not driving.
--
zk

Buck said:

Awww, come on guys! Both of you can't get the numbers?!?

SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!

Then we can go on with this little sidetrack in the conversation....

Try the California Report for Leaf Blower pollution, other numbers are
available in other areas of the same site.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/leafblow/leafblow.htm

Most of the numbers are broken down by the type of pollution.

W

Quoted message said:

De-construct this. It's too damn late. The highways were
built, the neighborhoods were destroyed, the parking lots
built, the suburbs built as far as the eye can see. This
happened a long time ago. We're on the back side of it
now. Where were you 30 years ago when your tantrums
might have actually done some good? All of this happened
because people love the idea of one person-one car and
they demanded it. People wanted their cars and their
houses in the suburbs. The only thing that's going
to de-construct this is Hubbert's Peak and the end
of the cheap oil era. The current situation is untenable
and unsustainable on its own, contains the seeds of its
own demise, and no amount of 'protest' is going to make
a damn bit of difference compared to that.

Great post. It captures the curmudgeonly attitude I've acquired
lately.

A small number of people in our society conserve energy, ride bikes,
etc. It is currently a fringe activity. Most people don't even
understand the nature of the problem. A CNBC poll today asks the
age-old question "who's to blame?" for high gasoline prices. Barely a
third of the respondents are ready to accept that it is us, the
consumers, who are paying these prices:

Domestic oil producers: 45%
Congress: 5%
OPEC: 21%
Consumers: 29%

That's the state of "energy planning" in our society. Most people
drive they cars and then "blame" domestic oil producers or opec.

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

or a bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk.

Try that one and get back to us.

Bike messengers are known to utilize coned-off construction
zones to the chagrin of orange vested folk whose job it is
to keep them out. I know of two local messengers who
succumbed to hub-deep cement of a freshly poured slab,
causing their bikes to stop cold and their bodies to be
launched head first into the slop. Unfortunately I was
not there to witness either event. I imagine that a few
of the orange vested city workers there laughed heartily,
while the rest just stood around doing nothing.

Robert

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Lose a loved one (or two) to the selfish carelessness of
scud pilots, and then say all that.

I believe I did. Lose two loved ones to the selfish carelessness of
other drivers, that is. And then say all that. Yes, indeed I did.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

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Zoot Katz said:

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:05:28 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, the black rose

Quoted message said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Your pity is misplaced.
You're the one unable to imagine or manifest a better lifestyle
without a car.
That's is truly sad.
But I don't feel sorry for you because you brought it on yourself.

Your assumptions are showing! :-D

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

-------- __o
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-----------------------------------------

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Lose a loved one (or two) to the selfish carelessness of
scud pilots, and then say all that.

I believe I did. Lose two loved ones to the selfish carelessness of
other drivers, that is. And then say all that. Yes, indeed I did.

I don't see it in this thread.

Anyway, you lose loved ones to the selfish carelessness
of other drivers, and yet apparently don't find /that/
creating a frightful world to live in? And you pity
those who do? What are you, some kind of car addict?

Hell, attitudes like yours create a frightful world to live in.
But maybe not as much as cars being designed beyond the average
nincompoop's capacity to operate them responsibly.

Society needs cars to be designed by Fisher-Price.

HAND,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:28:08 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

I ride responsibly and I celebrate cycling. I also like tweaking the
grid-locked drones noses and thumbing mine at their impotence.
How's that muting the message?

Zoot, riding responsibly and celebrating cycling are cool things.
Ranting about cars like they were cruise missiles does nothing but
marginalize any valid statements you might make. Implying that anyone
who occasionally drives a car is the spawn of Satan only serves to
alienate your audience (most of who qualify for SoS under your
criteria).

Maybe you mean it to be cute - it comes off as whacko, IMHO.

Mark "not that there's anything wrong with that" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Zoot Katz said:

<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree we should all do "as little damage as possible", but let's not
delude ourselves into thinking that we're not part of the problem too.

Gee, I do my laundry in cold water, buy local organic produce, cycle
and recycle, use public transit, don't fly, use energy efficient light
bulbs and have never supported bombing any one. How about you?

Do you use electricity? I'm guessing "yes" unless you use those energy
efficient light bulbs as sculpture. Water? Obviously if you're doing
your laundry. How do you suppose that organic produce gets to your
market?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

brink said:

or a bicyclist rides through wet cement on a sidewalk.

Try that one and get back to us.

Bike messengers are known to utilize coned-off construction
zones to the chagrin of orange vested folk whose job it is
to keep them out. I know of two local messengers who
succumbed to hub-deep cement of a freshly poured slab,
causing their bikes to stop cold and their bodies to be
launched head first into the slop. Unfortunately I was
not there to witness either event. I imagine that a few
of the orange vested city workers there laughed heartily,
while the rest just stood around doing nothing.

I would imagine that they were rushing over quickly to re-smooth the
cement...

.... OVER the bike messenger. ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:48:23 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

Anyway, you lose loved ones to the selfish carelessness
of other drivers, and yet apparently don't find /that/
creating a frightful world to live in? And you pity
those who do? What are you, some kind of car addict?

I suppose if I'd had friends murdered by junkies that I too would find
it more acceptable if I were also a junkie
--
zk

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:01:59 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:28:08 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Thing is, he's just as "effective" as Vandeman. I can't think of a
better way to mute the message of bicycles as transportation than to
do what Zoot does.

I ride responsibly and I celebrate cycling. I also like tweaking the
grid-locked drones noses and thumbing mine at their impotence.
How's that muting the message?

Zoot, riding responsibly and celebrating cycling are cool things.
Ranting about cars like they were cruise missiles does nothing but
marginalize any valid statements you might make. Implying that anyone
who occasionally drives a car is the spawn of Satan only serves to
alienate your audience (most of who qualify for SoS under your
criteria).

Maybe you mean it to be cute - it comes off as whacko, IMHO.

I believe it was the late Tooker Gomberg who pointed out that every
cause needs radicals so that the less radical actions seem palatable
to the mainstream. Life at the fringe isn't crowded with sheeple.
--
zk

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:12:51 -0700,
<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

<[email hidden]>, Mark Hickey
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I agree we should all do "as little damage as possible", but let's not
delude ourselves into thinking that we're not part of the problem too.

Gee, I do my laundry in cold water, buy local organic produce, cycle
and recycle, use public transit, don't fly, use energy efficient light
bulbs and have never supported bombing any one. How about you?

Do you use electricity? I'm guessing "yes" unless you use those energy
efficient light bulbs as sculpture. Water? Obviously if you're doing
your laundry. How do you suppose that organic produce gets to your
market?

I buy my electricity from BC Hydro and I pay for it, unlike
California. ^^^^^

But I don't support bombing anyone to maintain an unsustainable
lifestyle. Your "as little damage as possible" has a hollow echo
knowing your stance on geopolitics.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:48:23 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

Anyway, you lose loved ones to the selfish carelessness
of other drivers, and yet apparently don't find /that/
creating a frightful world to live in? And you pity
those who do? What are you, some kind of car addict?

I suppose if I'd had friends murdered by junkies that I too would find
it more acceptable if I were also a junkie

What an ugly world that would make.

Wait a minute ...

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

How do you suppose that organic produce gets to your
market?

Not by the motor vehicle you go to work with.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
the black rose <[email hidden]> writes:

>I can't even imagine what it must be like to live with all that
>self-inflicted rancor, anger, and bitterness. What a frightful world to
>live in! I feel pretty sorry for him.

Lose a loved one (or two) to the selfish carelessness of
scud pilots, and then say all that.

I believe I did. Lose two loved ones to the selfish carelessness of
other drivers, that is. And then say all that. Yes, indeed I did.

I don't see it in this thread.

Oh do grow up. You told me to lose a couple of loved ones to the
carelessness of automobile drivers, and then say "all that." And I
informed you that I have in fact lost a couple of loved ones to the
carelessness of automobile drivers and then said "all that."

I don't choose to hold the actions of a few idiots against everybody else.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, you lose loved ones to the selfish carelessness
of other drivers, and yet apparently don't find /that/
creating a frightful world to live in? And you pity
those who do? What are you, some kind of car addict?

Car addict? BWA HAHAHAHAHA. My, are you ever barking up the wrong tree.

No, I don't find this a frightful world to live in. There will always
be careless people. I will do my best to avoid them. I ride with
healthy caution. There may come a day when I don't successfully avoid a
careless driver, or there may not, but I don't see it as a reason to let
fear, anger and paranoia rule me. Nor do I see it as a reason to
blindly attack people I don't even know just because they said something
I disagree with. The assumptions you're making about me are
breathtakingly inaccurate.

Live each day to the fullest, do my best to do no harm, and ride my bike
lots because I enjoy it, because it's good for me, because it's good for
the world I live in. If that attitude creates a frightful world, then I
really don't know what to say. Nor do I care to argue this any further
with an individual who doesn't appear to have left name-calling behind
in the schoolyard. So fire away, my dear, if it makes you feel better.

--

the black rose
Research Associate in the Field of Child Development and Human
Relations
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
2005 BOMs: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/blackrosequilts/my_photos

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mark said:

A lot of the backcountry roads here in Colorado may well havde been
negotiable in a VW Beetle or Bus in the '60s and '70s, but the dramatic
increase in SUV traffic on these roads, the excess weight of modern SUVs,
and lack of maintenance have made these roads impassable for anything
without big fat tires, lots of clearance, and either very low gearing or a

fair bit of low end torque. Even with an SUV, travelling these roads can
be
a difficult, unpleasant experience. Hiking them, OTOH, is fairly pleasant
and not a whole lot slower than driving on them.

Why hike when there is that wonderful invention, the mountain bicycle (sorry
Mikey V)? Almost every LBS has a decent selection and a decent one can had
for about 2% of the cost of a new SUV.

--
Sock Puppet

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Robert Uhl said:

Rich said:

Quoted message said:

So potentially someone in an emergency situation might run out to his
vehicle and be unable to get to the hospital, or his parents' home,
or his kids' school, or whatever. Yeah, that's really taking the
moral high ground.

In an emergency situation, people should call 911. The last thing we
need is a guy in a hummer driving like a madman to get somewhere.

Ambulances cost money.

I live about six blocks from a hospital. Does it make more sense to
drive the five minutes thereto or wait around for an ambulance which
will take longer to arrive?

In the US, that 5 minute ambulance ride will cost you $300-600.

--
Sock Puppet

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Gooserider said:

Letting the air out is a bit much. There are anti-SUV bumper stickers, but
I
think these magnetic ones on eBay are funnier.

http://tinyurl.com/cmk97

What is so funny about homophobia?

--
Sock Puppet

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Nuck 'n Futz said:

Zoot Katz said:

Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:06:39 GMT,
another scud enslaved nobody, "Nuck 'n Futz" piddled:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

{Nice ASSumption, BTW; bet you bought more gas in last month than I.}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All I'm saying is that flattening the tires of some stranger's
Explorer is a cowardly way of expressing one's holier-than-thou self.

Quoted message said:

How do feel about hit-and-run?

I thought the OP (and/or subsequent) talked about people flattening tires
of
SUVs and leaving pamphlets explaining why. How did that morph into hit &
run?!?

Quoted message said:

Whether it results in just minor property damage to your shiney scud
or death or injury to pedestrians and cyclists, about twenty percent
of you scud slaves prove it doesn't take backbone to be assholesl

No idea what that even means.

It means Ron Hardin's signature line is wrong.

--
Sock Puppet

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