General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Feedback appreciated...

Started by Silver0l · · Last activity · 86 posts · 1,937 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
2 January 2006
Last activity
12 January 2006
Original author
Silver0l
Posts
86
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,937
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 21–40 of 86
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. jtaylor said:


    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis, that
    it would be pointless to fight.

    No.

    What do you mean, no? I provided one example. Scoliosis is one example
    of an asymmetry that makes it pointless to try to swim symmetrically.
    You *always* seem to miss the point.

    If your body has an asymmetry, correct the asymmetry before trying to
    force ytourself to swim symmetrically. That's the advice.

    Every time you try this argument-by-google technique, you make
    yourself look foolish. give it a rest.

    Quoted message said:

    The incidence of scoliosis is generally thought very low - propably under 1%
    of the population. For those who have it, spontaneous improvement
    (reduction in curvature) is seen, especially frequently in those with
    initial diagnoses of curvature less than about 10 degrees. For those with
    greater curves, treatment is widely available and usually successful.

  2. "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis, that
    it would be pointless to fight.

    No.

    What do you mean, no?

    1% is not "most".

  3. Silver0l said:

    <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    PS We often have assymetries in our strengths, balance, flexibility,
    etc. Another you can do is try breathing to the right instead of the
    left. I'm convinced that if a swimmer has a weaker side for whatever
    reason, that should be the breathing side.

    Interesting post. Will check everything and test carefully. I was not a big
    fan of assymetry, but I have to deal with the fact that my swim is very
    assymetrical. And the same goes with elites.
    This said, I think I remember that Larry advocated the contrary, breathing
    to the strong side. Will try to Google this.
    As for the PS, you mean breathing to the left, I suppose?

    -- Olivier

    Well, it's probably true that there's nothing new under the sun. The
    "big-bang" theory really applies to swimmers who hardly kick. But at
    its core, it's really about spending a bit more time breathing since
    oxygen is so critical. And if you dumb the thing down completely, if
    you're going to spend more time on one side than the other, you
    obviously want more propulsion for that extra time. ("Much is asked of
    those to whom much is given"😉 But that's really just our old friend the
    "lope" which has been talked about here a great deal.

    Seeking assymetry for its own sake has no value. But fighting
    assymetry because that's what usa-swimming or swim "gurus" say seems
    completely stupid - as you point out many of the fastest swimmers in
    the world do not have symmetrical strokes. Yet swim coach after swim
    coach will sing the praises of a balanced stroke. They have not
    mastered their craft in my opinion.

    I believe Larry is absolutely correct - most swimmers are right handed
    and breath to their right as well. That gives their weaker and less
    coordinated left arm a much needed boost in power from the additional
    body rotation while breathing. In my case, my left shoulder is not a
    very good joint. So the left is not a little bit weaker than the
    right, it's much weaker. So I'm having some success now breathing to
    the left. That's why I mentioned it to you -your left pull is quite
    poor but your right is more classical. You therefore may benefit by
    breathing to the left. So if you have only one strong card to play
    (meaning one side MUCH strong than the other), breath to the opposite
    side.

    Regards,
    Eric

  4. In article <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "jtaylor"

    Quoted message said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jtaylor said:


    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    > I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis, that
    > it would be pointless to fight.

    No.

    What do you mean, no?

    1% is not "most".

    I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    have scoliosis. Did you really not understand that? I used scoliosis as an
    example.

    Do you deliberately misread, or are you still blinded with rage because
    nobody but you referred to a backstroke flip turn as a "suicide turn"?
    That's it, isn't it. You're still mad about that.

    --
    Martin Smith

  5. Silver0l said:

    <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    PS We often have assymetries in our strengths, balance, flexibility,
    etc. Another you can do is try breathing to the right instead of the
    left. I'm convinced that if a swimmer has a weaker side for whatever
    reason, that should be the breathing side.

    Interesting post. Will check everything and test carefully. I was not a big
    fan of assymetry, but I have to deal with the fact that my swim is very
    assymetrical. And the same goes with elites.
    This said, I think I remember that Larry advocated the contrary, breathing
    to the strong side. Will try to Google this.
    As for the PS, you mean breathing to the left, I suppose?

    -- Olivier

    How's it going? Are you having any success with that 'powerful one side'
    yet?
    I thought not.
    Get your head up and gauge your catch better by sight, there's no reason
    for you to be lopsided like you are from what I can see, it's just bad
    habit, why stick with it?
    Don't forget, well bent arms as you return, and get those fingers
    walking on the water, before re-entering, thumb first.....
    Learn to breathe on both sides if you want, but imo, if you're swimming
    right, you hardly have to turn your head to breathe anyway, so just go
    with what supplies your air best....

  6. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Please tell Winnie-the-Pooh to put his hand in PINKY FIRST to lessen
    the chance
    of getting a boo-boo in his shoulder 🙂

    Eric

    No mate, side of thumb in first. Check some of those elite videos....

    You are right about the elite swimmers, but I too had to change from the
    "side of thumb in first" after my rotator cuff surgery. It still makes me
    sad that I can't at least copy the elite swimmers, but I understand that
    entering the water thumb first narrows the opening the rotator cuff goes
    through and can even pinch the area if the tendon is the least bit irritated
    to begin with. I compromise by having my hand enter the water "all fingers"
    at the same time.

    Pat

  7. I used to breathe only to the right until I started cycling. My neck would
    get so tired during long rides that a doc told me to use bilateral breathing
    to strengthen the neck muscles--or at least make both sides equally tired. I
    switched to bilateral breathing and it helped with the cycling, too.

    Pat

  8. "didgerman" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    How's it going? Are you having any success with that 'powerful one side'
    yet?
    I thought not.
    Get your head up and gauge your catch better by sight, there's no reason
    for you to be lopsided like you are from what I can see, it's just bad
    habit, why stick with it?

    Just could swim again, for the first time since that video (remember I can
    only swim 1 time a week).
    I was baffled, because I payed attention to my left arm stroke, and it
    became obvious that I bent it too much. This is simply something I didn't
    realize before. The move of my arm had become fully inconscient. I had very
    good coaching 20 years ago, then I swam alone for 18 years. And I got
    "triathlon coaching" since the last 2 years, which is far from perfect. I
    think the bad movement came slowly all along these years, just because when
    I breathe on the right, I cannot see my left hand! So the pull became worse
    and worse, without me noticing anything.

    The good news is that it seems pretty easy to correct. I just have to make a
    conscient move, and to concentrate on my left arm pull! The difficulty is
    when I become to tired, or not concentrated enough. And my muscles become
    quickly tired when I do a correct move with my left arm... just because they
    are not used to do the correct move. Hope it will not take years to have a
    good natural stroke again.

    When I swim bilaterraly, the move seems to become good on both side, with a
    much more symmetrical stroke. But I don't get enough air to swim fast - air
    supply becomes a performance limiting factor. So I have to breathe on one
    side and take advantage of asymmetry, and I will try Eric's tricks for that.
    Hope to be able to tape all this soon.

    Another point: I don't think I'm much weaker on the left side. When we do
    one arm drills, I usually can easily beat with my left arm people that are
    as fast as I am with the right arm.

    Again, my stroke cannot be THAT bad. At about 1'30"/100m (including
    transition T1), I usually finish the swim leg of a triathlon between the
    first 10 and 20%. OK, I have 30 years of training, but honestly, with my age
    (44), lack of training (1 hr/week), and no particular gift, I can only hope
    to win 1 or 2 minutes with a better stroke. Like going from 22'30 min to
    21min on a 1500m. Going sub-20 would require much more than stroke technique
    improvements (much more hours in the pool, dry land training...)!

    Will not try to get my head up. I'm very inflexible, and I get a painfull
    neck if I do that.

    Quoted message said:

    Don't forget, well bent arms as you return, and get those fingers walking
    on the water, before re-entering, thumb first.....

    Will not try thumb first. This has been discussed ad nauseam here, and the
    general consensus is that thumb first will lead to shoulder problems on the
    long term. Don't want to risk that.

    Quoted message said:

    Learn to breathe on both sides if you want, but imo, if you're swimming
    right, you hardly have to turn your head to breathe anyway, so just go
    with what supplies your air best....

    OK with that.

    -- Olivier

  9. "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "jtaylor"

    Quoted message said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >
    >"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >> I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> it would be pointless to fight.
    >
    >No.

    What do you mean, no?

    1% is not "most".

    I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    have scoliosis.

    So what kind of assymetry that cannot be easily corrected would you suggest
    that over 50% of people who swim DO have?

  10. jtaylor said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "jtaylor"

    Quoted message said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>
    >>>I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,

    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>it would be pointless to fight.
    >>
    >>No.
    >
    >What do you mean, no?

    1% is not "most".

    I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    have scoliosis.

    So what kind of assymetry that cannot be easily corrected would you suggest
    that over 50% of people who swim DO have?

    I wouldn't suggest that.

  11. Pat in TX said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Please tell Winnie-the-Pooh to put his hand in PINKY FIRST to lessen
    the chance
    of getting a boo-boo in his shoulder 🙂

    Eric


    No mate, side of thumb in first. Check some of those elite videos....

    You are right about the elite swimmers, but I too had to change from the
    "side of thumb in first" after my rotator cuff surgery. It still makes me
    sad that I can't at least copy the elite swimmers, but I understand that
    entering the water thumb first narrows the opening the rotator cuff goes
    through and can even pinch the area if the tendon is the least bit irritated
    to begin with. I compromise by having my hand enter the water "all fingers"
    at the same time.

    Pat

    That's bad news mate, unlucky. I guess if it were me I'd attempt to
    enter the water with the little finger first and see how that went. But
    the idea is to reduce drag whatever way you do it. So if you can glide
    your fingers in as you reach forward, you're not going to disadvantage
    yourself much, if it all.
    Anyway, those elite swimmers always try to look good for the cameras I
    bet......

  12. "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,

    that

    Quoted message said:

    >>>>it would be pointless to fight.
    >>>
    >>>No.
    >>
    >>What do you mean, no?
    >
    >1% is not "most".

    I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    have scoliosis.

    So what kind of assymetry that cannot be easily corrected would you


    suggest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that over 50% of people who swim DO have?

    I wouldn't suggest that.

    Then why did you write this:

    "I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis, that it
    would be pointless to fight."

  13. jtaylor said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>>I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,

    that

    >>>>>it would be pointless to fight.
    >>>>
    >>>>No.
    >>>
    >>>What do you mean, no?
    >>
    >>1% is not "most".
    >
    >I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    >have scoliosis.

    So what kind of assymetry that cannot be easily corrected would you

    suggest

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that over 50% of people who swim DO have?

    I wouldn't suggest that.

    Then why did you write this:

    "I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis, that it
    would be pointless to fight."

    Because I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,
    that it would be pointless to fight.

    If you tell me more about the stroke defect you are trying to correct,
    maybe I can offer some tips, but unless you give more information, I'm
    afraid I can't help.

    BTW, it's asymmetry, not assymetry, and 3% of people have problem
    scoliosis, not 1%.

  14. "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you tell me more about the stroke defect you are trying to correct,
    maybe I can offer some tips, but unless you give more information, I'm
    afraid I can't help.

    Martin,

    The stroke defect is my stroke defect, and you can see it at:
    http://spamparadise.free.fr/SilverOlSwim-divx.avi (7MB)
    as indicated in my original post.

    The left arm is way too bent in the underwater pull.

    -- Olivier

  15. jtaylor said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "jtaylor"

    Quoted message said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>
    >>>I suppose most people have some "hard" asymmetry, eg scoliosis,

    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>it would be pointless to fight.
    >>
    >>No.
    >
    >What do you mean, no?

    1% is not "most".

    I said most people have some "hard" asymmetry. I didn't say most people
    have scoliosis.

    So what kind of assymetry that cannot be easily corrected would you suggest
    that over 50% of people who swim DO have?

    But I guess I haven't completely answered your question. No physical
    asymmetry is easily corrected, so the answer is None of them.

    I think the important point is that a person with a physical asymmetry
    should either correct the asymmetry or compensate for it before trying
    to swim against it. For example, if one has grown up playing baseball,
    then one's upper body will be stronger on one's throwing side, probably
    significantly so. Baseball will probably also cause other asymmetries in
    back muscle strength and tendon length/flexibility, which will affect
    body role, making breathing on the non-throwing side much easier.

    It would be pointless, and possibly damaging to swim against these
    imbalances. Rather, they should be correct first, if possible, by
    strength and flexibility exercises over a long period. This work might
    be simple, but not easy.

    I suppose the same would be true for other sports, eg tennis, golf,
    cricket. I suppose there are also professions that cause such
    asymmetries, eg carpentry.

    The point is this: Most swimmers probably breath on one side or the
    other for reasons, and asymmetry probably is probably one of them, even
    if it is because the swimmer is right or left handed.

  16. Silver0l said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you tell me more about the stroke defect you are trying to correct,
    maybe I can offer some tips, but unless you give more information, I'm
    afraid I can't help.

    Martin,

    The stroke defect is my stroke defect, and you can see it at:
    http://spamparadise.free.fr/SilverOlSwim-divx.avi (7MB)
    as indicated in my original post.

    The left arm is way too bent in the underwater pull.

    -- Olivier

    I can't see it, because because my employer blocks video, but I know the
    problem well. I have the same problem on my strong side. But I was
    asking jtaylor what stroke defect *he* is trying to correct.

  17. Silver0l said:

    "Martin Smith" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    If you tell me more about the stroke defect you are trying to correct,
    maybe I can offer some tips, but unless you give more information, I'm
    afraid I can't help.

    Martin,

    The stroke defect is my stroke defect, and you can see it at:
    http://spamparadise.free.fr/SilverOlSwim-divx.avi (7MB)
    as indicated in my original post.

    The left arm is way too bent in the underwater pull.

    -- Olivier


    I wish I could see this. Is there any other format you can use, like a
    Quicktime wrapped plain brown paper?

    rtk

  18. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's bad news mate, unlucky. I guess if it were me I'd attempt to enter
    the water with the little finger first and see how that went. But the idea
    is to reduce drag whatever way you do it. So if you can glide your fingers
    in as you reach forward, you're not going to disadvantage yourself much,
    if it all.
    Anyway, those elite swimmers always try to look good for the cameras I
    bet......

    I was thinking about that today as I swam laps. Do you suppose that elite
    swimmers ARE elite because they have hypermobile joints? Or maybe they're
    'way more flexible than the rest of us? I know the sport favors people with
    long arms and big hands, so maybe there is more to body shape than first
    meets the eye. i.e., how the body is put together.

    I saw a guy today, swimming freestyle, and he would have his hand enter the
    water with his arm fully extended--no extension under the water at all.
    Then, he would bring his hand down and when it got right below his shoulder,
    he would rotate his hand so that the palm surface was parallel to his body.
    After his hand got to his hip area, he would rotate the hand back so that
    the palm faced the backside of the lane once again. It seemed to me that he
    was "spilling water" with that kind of action. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure
    looked inefficient--and aren't we all trying for efficiency in our strokes?

    Pat

  19. Funny you should mention how many times one side of our bodies gets stronger
    without us realizing it. I am a cyclist and didn't have problems turning my
    head. Then, I went on a cycling tour of Ireland where I had to ride on the
    left side of the road. Bingo! I was not used to turning my head to the right
    to see traffic behind me. I found I was pretty inflexible turning my head
    to the right whereas I could turn it to the left easily. The appropriate
    muscles just were not being used as much, and I had asymmetry. That is one
    reason I started breathing bilaterally.

    Pat in TX

  20. "rtk" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The stroke defect is my stroke defect, and you can see it at:
    http://spamparadise.free.fr/SilverOlSwim-divx.avi (7MB)
    as indicated in my original post.

    The left arm is way too bent in the underwater pull.

    -- Olivier

    Quoted message said:

    I wish I could see this. Is there any other format you can use, like a
    Quicktime wrapped plain brown paper?

    rtk

    Ruth,

    I used VirtualDub to make it reasonably big, and I was thinking that the
    DivX codec was more platform neutral than say Intel Indeo or Microsoft
    codec.

    However, I made a new version using Cinepak encoding, and this seems to be
    more QuickTime-friendly (at least, I can read it with _my_ QuickTime). I
    guess Donald Graft could explain us the details...

    Had to make it bigger, though, to keep enough video quality: 15MB (hope you
    have broadband access).

    See:
    http://spamparadise.free.fr/SilverOlSwim-cinepak200kB.avi

    Rgds,

    -- Olivier

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.