2008 Ftp?

doctorSpoc said:

i use what i can actually do in training to set training levels

"...exercise prescriptions should be individualized, in this case taking into account the power the athlete has generated in previous similar or identical workouts...the primary reference, therefore, is not to the system itself, but to the athlete's own unique (and current) ability." - A. Coggan, 2001

doctorSpoc said:

i agree with you... i think i stated that 4-5 post ago. but i'm looking at this from practical point of view... when i get on the road and i'm going to do my interval, when i'm planning my training schedule, what concrete thing changes based on that 3-4W difference in that value? what does that precision get me? basically, nothing.. the utility gain from the precision from a practical point of view for these formal field tests is so low that they are waste of time... i can get close enough and in fact get even better other information by other means... not a good use of ones time, an just plain unnecessary... even using monod.. i only take a peak a few times a year and i'm not doing anything formal, i'm just taking some numbers and seeing what they spit out.. more for interest sake than anything else.

know what's really funny... you are actually a prime candidate for using 20min power... the difference in your 20min and 1hr power is within the precision of most power meters... isn't that ironic 🙂

anyone that's been riding for more than a minute knows that races can be won in many different ways... a rider will be successful if the maximize on their assets and limit their liabilities... and it also helps if you have tactically inept competition. People such as yourself should be the easiest to out maneuver tactically since you only have one weapon at your disposal. It should be really easy to counter.. basically sit on you or do considerably less work than you if in a break with you and then go around you at 100m to the line. the other side of the coin is that those with considerably less aerobic abilities than yourself can make up for it by exploiting their AnCap abilities and for shorter effort good AnCap can mask low FTP.

it comes down to this.. the only situation that you won't have to worry about AnCap is if you finish solo... and how often does that happen? and even then, how did you attack in the first place? even from a small break you're going to need to sprint or attack in order to win etc... bottom line... maximizing you AnCap means maximizing your odds of success in racing... and that goes for anyone. but again if you're smart enough and/or you competition is foolish or ignorant enough it's possible to find a way to win... but most of the time i think you'll find yourself getting a lot of 5th-10th places.

sorry strader... i'll stop now.. let the pissing resume...

With all due my respects, doctorSpoc, I believe that you need to review/update some very important bases and background on Exercise biochemistry and metabolism and then apply them to their influences on racing results. As Coggan very well says "metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists.
Anaerobic capacity in a "real race" can ONLY make the difference if your "metabolic fitness" is fully developed.....pretty obvious though, since everyone whith racing experience knows or should know that...if you are good enough to make it with the best riders at the end of the race (good "metabolic fitness"😉 and you are a good sprinter your chances are much higher...however you need to make it with the bests first...otherwise you would have no chance even if you are the 1Kilo world champion...

P.D. Thanks to whoever got rid off the spam!.🙂

Urkiola2 said:

With all due my respects, doctorSpoc, I believe that you need to review/update some very important bases and background on Exercise biochemistry and metabolism and then apply them to their influences on racing results. As Coggan very well says "metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists.
Anaerobic capacity in a "real race" can ONLY make the difference if your "metabolic fitness" is fully developed.....pretty obvious though, since everyone whith racing experience knows or should know that...if you are good enough to make it with the best riders at the end of the race (good "metabolic fitness"😉 and you are a good sprinter your chances are much higher...however you need to make it with the bests first...otherwise you would have no chance even if you are the 1Kilo world champion...

P.D. Thanks to whoever got rid off the spam!.🙂

huh???... i think you and Dr. Coggan need to review what i've written 🙄 <scratching my head>

please show me where in my post i write anything to the contrary of what you've written here? i believe this 100%... Dr. Coggan and i have had this discussion many times... it's odd that he doesn't know my position on this.. you've simply misstated/misinterpreted what i've written.. that's not in my post because i simply don't believe it.

i don't know how many post i've written.. aerobic fitness or maybe "metabolic fitness" is more appropriate.. is you ticket to play, but AnCap is an important differentiator... given two riders of similar "metabolic fitness" the one that has superior AnCap just simple has more cards to play in a race and his or her likelihood of success is that much greater.. i don't know how you can argue with that. i would even say that the rider with superior AnCap can get away with slightly inferior "metabolic fitness" in many races.

lets deal with the real world here guys.. when is the last time you saw a pro riding in Cat5 and when is the last time you saw a Cat5 riding in the pro peleton... i'm talking about a comparing real honest to goodness peers.. e.g. a Tom Boonen, Petacchi type who wins upwards of 30 races a year to a grand tour winner type who sure wins some BIG races, but maybe puts less than 5 wins on their score card in a season... or a grand tour winner type to someone like a Bettini.. if Bettinin and Contador come to the line together, who are you going to put your money on?

the point of my post is that everyone should develop their anaerobic capacity as much as possible, cycling is run in categories.. the people around you are going to have similar "metabolic fitness" to you.. to give yourself the best odds of success you need to develop you AnCap as much as is possible, unless you come to the line alone you just need to do it... and as i said, even separating yourself in order to come to the line alone usually requires good AnCap unless you have good power to weight and are presented with a good long hill or you are gifted a good strong cross wind and proceed to ride the gutter.

again... complete misstatement/misinterpretation of what i've written and what i believe.

here is a post from 2 years ago where i say just that.. post #33

http://cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?p=3107566&highlight=differentiator#post3107566

Remember this list? 🙂

KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg (69min TT @ 347W (5ºC))
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
Tyson.................315W......73kg........4.3W/Kg (Sillyoldtwit)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe..........242W......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1.............294W......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub..............310W......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg

Updated mine with a race result.

FTP estimate is based on untapered 40min effort on the turbo in TT position. Race was at TSB ~0. Correlate well.

doctorSpoc said:

... the people around you are going to have similar "metabolic fitness" to you.. ...

That's not my experience at all. Races shatter into little pieces on climbs over 10 to 15 minutes in length. Lack of ancap isn't the problem for those riders getting shelled. Same for extended crosswind stretches, it's metabolic fitness that's letting the break get away.

Sure, among those that hit the final kilo together, ancap and a good sprint are really important. But how often do we hear folks giving L6 training advice to guys getting shelled in the first 20 minutes of a race that have never been there to see the leader cross the line? Personally the best thing I ever did for my racing was to focus my training on metabolic fitness. Yup, you can't ignore the short intense end but without the sustained power all the ancap in the world won't amount to much.

-Dave

daveryanwyoming said:

That's not my experience at all. Races shatter into little pieces on climbs over 10 to 15 minutes in length. Lack of ancap isn't the problem for those riders getting shelled. Same for extended crosswind stretches, it's metabolic fitness that's letting the break get away.

Sure, among those that hit the final kilo together, ancap and a good sprint are really important. But how often do we hear folks giving L6 training advice to guys getting shelled in the first 20 minutes of a race that have never been there to see the leader cross the line? Personally the best thing I ever did for my racing was to focus my training on metabolic fitness. Yup, you can't ignore the short intense end but without the sustained power all the ancap in the world won't amount to much.

-Dave

do you not recognize that you've basically repeated EVERYTHING i've said in my post? i'm talking right down to using the exact same times that AnCap isn't going to count for sh!t... WTF!... LMAO!

guys in the same category have metabolic fitness in the same ballpark.. they don't have the exact same metabolic fitness.. i used the word similar, not the same... and certainly not to the ridiculous degree of a Cat5 to a Pro that Dr. Coggan and Urkiola 2 gave. in certain races metabolic fitness is going to matter more... i say this in my post and you repeat it.. trying to make some point that i can't really figure out.. but whatever? but no matter what... better AnCap betters your odds of success... the level you ride at will mostly be determined by your metabolic fitness but the major differentiator within that group is going to be AnCap... you can even extrapolate that to the guys that make if over that 20 min hill together.. who is more likely going to take the win from that group? i repeat... Contator and Bettini come to the line... who are you going to put your money on?

tell you what... when you want to add something new to the discussion let me know.. can't believe the guy bites my whole post, and then wants to argue with me using my own word and my own arguments...???

doctorSpoc said:

... i used the word similar, not the same... ..

Sorry, 'guess I don't know the standard deviation on "similar" vs. "same". I'd argue that metabolic fitness isn't even close to "similar" in the lower amateur categories. Can't say about the top pros, I don't race against them.

Sounds like we're in violent agreement. Or at least suggesting that both ends of the power spectrum are important but you've gotta have the metabolic fitness to play and possibly the ancap to win.

-Dave
P.S. I clip to try to keep replies concise, not to try to take your words out of context, I apologize if I've done the latter. Not my intention.

doctorSpoc said:

do you not recognize that you've basically repeated EVERYTHING i've said in my post? i'm talking right down to using the exact same times that AnCap isn't going to count for sh!t... WTF!... LMAO!

guys in the same category have metabolic fitness in the same ballpark.. they don't have the exact same metabolic fitness.. i used the word similar, not the same... and certainly not to the ridiculous degree of a Cat5 to a Pro that Dr. Coggan and Urkiola 2 gave. in certain races metabolic fitness is going to matter more... i say this in my post and you repeat it.. trying to make some point that i can't really figure out.. but whatever? but no matter what... better AnCap betters your odds of success... the level you ride at will mostly be determined by your metabolic fitness but the major differentiator within that group is going to be AnCap... you can even extrapolate that to the guys that make if over that 20 min hill together.. who is more likely going to take the win from that group? i repeat... Contator and Bettini come to the line... who are you going to put your money on?

tell you what... when you want to add something new to the discussion let me know.. can't believe the guy bites my whole post, and then wants to argue with me using my own word and my own arguments...???

look Mr. Vulcan, you posted on this thread in a derisive manner ... to my mind ... basically saying we're a bunch of idiots or posers for even worrying about FTP.

We are NOT so stupid as to think, preach, believe it's the only darned thing that matters but I'm firmly convinced that, aside from racing in which some pack-sucking crit lurker could profit, it's the most imporant single thing out there.

AWC is icing on top of icing mate ...

daveryanwyoming said:

I'd argue that metabolic fitness isn't even close to "similar" in the lower amateur categories. Can't say about the top pros

Urkiola2, who works with such riders, had this to say:

"..."metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists."

rmur17 said:

look Mr. Vulcan, you posted on this thread in a derisive manner ... to my mind ... basically saying we're a bunch of idiots or posers for even worrying about FTP.

We are NOT so stupid as to think, preach, believe it's the only darned thing that matters but I'm firmly convinced that, aside from racing in which some pack-sucking crit lurker could profit, it's the most imporant single thing out there.

AWC is icing on top of icing mate ...

i have never diminished the importance of metabolic fitness... i don't know what your are talking about here...? i've just highlighted other factors that will allow you to be a more complete rider and have more options in races and increase your chances of success in racing..

i have though, ridiculed the obsessive lengths that people will go to determine to determine FTP/1hr power to accuracies totally out of whack with what is necessary to guide their training and the idiotic, time wasting methodologies commonly used to determine it..

rmur17 said:

lWe are NOT so stupid as to think, preach, believe it's the only darned thing that matters but I'm firmly convinced that, aside from racing in which some pack-sucking crit lurker could profit, it's the most imporant single thing out there.

AWC is icing on top of icing mate ...

Improving FTP should be the primary goal of all endurance bike racers. Otherwise, you're just another guy who thinks that he could get lucky and win the field sprint next weekend if he just had a better position. A better AWC might help but like most US amateurs, his AWC and sprint are probably already nearly maxed out from heavily racing- and group ride-oriented training while FTP is as undeveloped as a dolphin's vestigial legs.

acoggan said:

Urkiola2, who works with such riders, had this to say:

"..."metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists."

i know that it is right at the top of this very same page but here is in total what he said.. nice cherry picking job 🙄

With all due my respects, doctorSpoc, I believe that you need to review/update some very important bases and background on Exercise biochemistry and metabolism and then apply them to their influences on racing results. As Coggan very well says "metabolic fitness" and not Anaerobic Capacity sets the pros apart from Cat 5 riders. I would add that this is also true to differentiate world class pros from "average" Pro Tour level cyclists.
Anaerobic capacity in a "real race" can ONLY make the difference if your "metabolic fitness" is fully developed.....pretty obvious though, since everyone whith racing experience knows or should know that...if you are good enough to make it with the best riders at the end of the race (good "metabolic fitness"😉 and you are a good sprinter your chances are much higher...however you need to make it with the bests first...otherwise you would have no chance even if you are the 1Kilo world champion...

metabolic fitness is you ticket to play... AnCap can act as a differentiator.. this is getting pretty tiresome... how long are you going to argue with some who is saying the same thing as you?

or maybe it's me who's misinterpreting what you are say... are you telling me that you think that metabolic fitness is the end all and be all and AnCap just doesn't matter... because that's certainly NOT what Urkiola2 wrote in his post.. he's a smart man obviously and that would be an incredibly stupid statement... that's the only way i can see a reason to continue with this discussion... what distinguishes the riders that win the ProTour or have the most wins in a season... excellent metabolic fitness.. excellent AnCap.. all rounders... i think what may be a part of the problem is that you are biased toward grand tour winners who's major defining characteristic is metabolic fitness... but those riders don't in general win a lot of races and if the do (Danilo DiLuca, Damiano Cunego) it because they have uncharacteristically high AnCap.. you can win a grand tour without ever winning a stage...

so is that what you are saying... you think that metabolic fitness is the end all and be all and AnCap just doesn't matter? because, short of that, it just doesn't make any kind of sense arguing with someone saying the same thing as yourself... so maybe you should stop.

doctorSpoc said:

i have never diminished the importance of metabolic fitness... i don't know what your are talking about here...? i've just highlighted other factors that will allow you to be a more complete rider and have more options in races and increase your chances of success in racing..

i have though, ridiculed the obsessive lengths that people will go to determine to determine FTP/1hr power to accuracies totally out of whack with what is necessary to guide their training and the idiotic, time wasting methodologies commonly used to determine it..

honestly then I think you ought to examine your communication skills!!! Seems like 'most' of us read your posts a certain way. Maybe it's simply your presentation and not the message ...

doctorSpoc said:

how long are you going to argue with some who is saying the same thing as you?

Did I reply to you? I thought I replied daveryanwyoming - my bad.

acoggan said:

Did I reply to you? I thought I replied daveryanwyoming - my bad.

no, my bad you did reply to daveryanwyoming...

Wow, such combatative agreeing. 🙄

I agree (nicely) with everyone that it's metabolic fitness which determines whether you're going to finish in the upper, middle, or lower third of a given pack of competitors. After that, it's either a specialty like sprinting or AnCap, or a difference in tactical saavy, positioning, or luck which determines how you'll fare against the handful of folks with similar metabolic abilities to your own.

I also agree (with everyone) that if you want a pure measure of metabolic fitness then a 60-min evaluation works good, but if you want to measure for a specialty in additionto that, then you should use a multi-point model such as "power profiling" or Monod's Critical Power.

That's enough agreeing and restating for me now. Carry on. 🙂

I'm just lurking about, staying out of the spotlight, riding this wave completely aerobically, watching all'o'yous attack each other back and forth. When you're all spent and finally decide that you're not going anywhere, I'll use my natural anaerobic abilities to come around and win the argument.

😄😄😄

KP....................265W.......48.5kg....5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W.......69kg......5.10 W/kg (69min TT @ 347W (5ºC))
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w........61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W.......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bigbadwoulfe.......320W.......73.0kg....4.41W/kg (from 298w 72kg, 1 hour ftp test, DNF my first race due to crash 🙁)
Tyson.................315W......73kg.......4.3W/Kg (Sillyoldtwit)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg....4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe..........242W.......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1............294W.......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons.......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg

KP....................265W.......48.5kg....5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W.......69kg......5.10 W/kg (69min TT @ 347W (5ºC))
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w........61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W.......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bigbadwoulfe.......320W.......73.0kg....4.41W/kg
tehpr3chr............315W......73kg.......4.3W/Kg (Cat III, GA)
Tyson.................315W......73kg.......4.3W/Kg (Sillyoldtwit)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg....4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe..........242W.......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1............294W.......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik................250W......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons.......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg

KP....................265W.......48.5kg....5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W.......69kg......5.10 W/kg (69min TT @ 347W (5ºC))
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
PSUcycling..........322W.......67kg......4.80w/kg (26,cat 1,Tx)
rmur(Mar.08).......410W.......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w........61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W.......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bigbadwoulfe.......320W.......73.0kg....4.41W/kg
tehpr3chr............315W......73kg.......4.3W/Kg (Cat III, GA)
Tyson.................315W......73kg.......4.3W/Kg (Sillyoldtwit)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg....4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
waterrockets.......345W.......80.9kg....4.26W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
Hammertoe..........242W.......63kg......3.84W/kg (middle aged, well marbled, hill climber)
No1kung1............294W.......77kg.......3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
Simone.................215W.......62kg...... 3.47 W/kg (Simone@Italy)
dkrenik................250W......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek...............243W.......85kg.......2.86W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons.......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg