1970's LeJuene Help?

[zeeto]

Hi,
Hope this is appropriate for this forum, I'm a newbie and could use an opinion or two.

Got my old LeJeune out of the airconditioned, finished basement where it has sat for 20+ yrs. Want to sell it and maybe start over, it's a little uncomfortable for me. Not a problem when I was younger but.... we won't talk about age.

Stats:
Reynolds 531 frame and forks
Rigidia Aluminum rims
Mafac Competition brakes
Stronglight crank
Simplex derailleurs
Pivo handlebars

Center to center 23.5"
Top tube 23"
27 x1.25 tires

All original except tires and possibly the Christophe clips and straps. Not sure. Cable casings are originals, lejeune red and not cracked. One paint chip, very few scratches. No rust except some surface rust on the unpainted parts of the forks. I imagine the proper product would take it off without much if any pitting.

Is there a market for this bike? Price estimates please? I'd like to know what the pros think before I put it on eBay. Hell, maybe I'll fix it up and ride it again!

 

[kdelong]

Fix it up and ride it. There is no value in a bike from that era except for some collectors or someone who used to own one and wants to try to recapture his youth. Going price on eBay for more well known brands of that era is only $50 - $75.

 

[alfeng]

I guess I have a slightly better memory about what French bikes were imported way-back-when (someone who lived in the same dorm had one), and you actually have a pretty nice bike -- I would say that there is a good chance (particularly, because of the condition) that you could get quite a lot for it as long as the right buyer(s) know about it [CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS]... I would certainly give you more than $75 for it ... because a FRENCH frame made with Reynolds 531 tubing is generally [but, not always] about as good a ride as you can ask for.

REGARDLESS, you're probably better off just getting new tires & tubes ... possibly lubing the brake & derailleur cables ... because you're not going to get enough for it (even it if is $500+ OR much more if you get the right buyer -- the crankset, alone, is worth more than $75) to pay for any replacement bike.

If you've got your eye on a "new" bike because of the contemporary, integrated shifters which are now available ... well, those can be retrofitted onto your bike.

AND, minimally, you can always put bar-end shifters [either contemporary to the frame OR "modern"] on your bike if the downtube shifters are more hassle than you want to deal with, now.

BTW. You can either respace the rear dropouts to 130mm without too much trouble (ask BEFORE you attempt this!) OR you can respace a 130mm Shimano rear hub to 120mm (the freehub body is from a 7-speed Shimano ACERA hub for those who might be interested) if you have the inclination -- I might have the ONLY Shimano 6500 rear hub with 120mm rear spacing!

FWIW. My recollection is that someone (a "Classic Rendezvous" type person, I think) spent close to $1000 restoring his LeJeune (mostly Campy components) ... more than 1/3rd was probably in the paint & decals & an unknown amount to anodize some of the parts (see attachment).

 

[zeeto]

Well,
A fairly significant difference in opinion!

I used to be a bit of a bike and audio geek way back when, obviously I have a lot of bike terminology to brush up on and new stuff to learn, just so I can understand your reply!. I was told I'd get more by parting it out, hate to do that, and not sure I have the expertise anyway. I even have the Mafac tool kit that hangs from the bottom of the saddle.

Seems to me that $500 ( if I could get that) should buy one heck of a nice, modern bike these days but I'm probably wrong.

I'm 6' tall and the LeJeune frame is a little high for me to ride comfortably, especially considering I haven't ridden in a long time. Can't find an allen wrench to fit the stem so I can lower the seat, do I need to buy a special size?
Maybe changing over to top mounted shifters and some sort of dual-position brakes would make the ride more doable for me.

Where can I find these Classic people you speak of?

 

[alfeng]

Well,

A fairly significant difference in opinion!

Yes, as kdelong suggested, beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder -- there was an early 60s vintage OLMO frameset which barely had any paint on it which sold for well over $1000US a few years ago.

I had a chance to query the buyer, and he indicated that his "first good bike" was that model OLMO -- definitely, a rosebud-moment.

I used to be a bit of a bike and audio geek way back when, obviously I have a lot of bike terminology to brush up on and new stuff to learn, just so I can understand your reply!. I was told I'd get more by parting it out, hate to do that, and not sure I have the expertise anyway. I even have the Mafac tool kit that hangs from the bottom of the saddle.

Seems to me that $500 ( if I could get that) should buy one heck of a nice, modern bike these days but I'm probably wrong.

You are way-wrong with regard to what a new bike of comparable quality would cost you -- figure between $1300-to-$2000 (retail) might/(or, not) get you a bike of comparable quality in today's market (e.g., a nice Italian, steel frame with a mid-range Campagnolo group). You could spend less, and you could spend more, of course.

$500 will barely get an entry level bike at a bike shop, so while it may superficially seem like an improvement over a quality vintage bike, its components will be the equivalent of the low end Simplex components made with Delrin vs. the race-worthy Simplex components.

I don't know what you paid for your bike, but in 1970 the low end bikes in the shop would have been in the $90 range (e.g., Raleigh Record), and I seem to recall that a Raleigh with "low" end Campy was about $150+, I think, and the really nice Raleighs (for example) with Campagnolo Nuovo Record were about $200+. A custom BOB JACKSON with full Campy was probably about $325+, as I vaguely recall.

Between 1970 & 1975, there was significant (for the time) Dollar devaluation ... and, the devaluation of the Dollar has been accelerated over the past few years (although, currently to excess as a result of speculators in the Foreign Exchange -- and, other -- Futures/Commodity markets).

I'm 6' tall and the LeJeune frame is a little high for me to ride comfortably, especially considering I haven't ridden in a long time. Can't find an allen wrench to fit the stem so I can lower the seat, do I need to buy a special size?

If you're 6' tall, then I would say that the frame is not too large for you ... believe it or not, my 1970 vintage Gitane was the same size (!) and I'm only 5'9" ... AND, at the time, the top of my saddle was a shade over 29" above the center of the crank -- about the same as where your's appears to be ...

I must be shrinking, or something, because I now set the top of my saddle at 28.25" from the center of the crank. Most of my "regular" frames are now in the 52cm (c-c), but that's more for aesthetic reasons. I still have frames with 57cm (c-c) seat tubes & varying length top tubes; but, they are ultimately all within about a half-inch of the distance from the rear of the saddle to the back of the hoods on the brake levers.

BTW. The frame size is best measured by the length of the top tube, and your LeJeune frame should be fine for someone your height ...

I used to buy my non-bike-specific tools from SEARS. I buy them anywhere that is convenient, now (HARBOR FREIGHT as often as not). Now, you can buy METRIC tools anywhere ... even, a bike shop!

The seatpost binder bolt is usally 5mm. The stem binder bolt is generally a 6mm.

Maybe changing over to top mounted shifters and some sort of dual-position brakes would make the ride more doable for me.

Yes, an alternative to the bar-end shifters would be to install a set of Campagnolo ERGO shifters if mixing new-with-old doesn't offend your aesthetic sensibilities.

Where can I find these Classic people you speak of?

www.classicrendezvous.com

 

[zeeto]

Much thanks.

Stopped at the local shop this morning, sticker shock.

They had a Cannondale, last years on sale for $649, marked down from $929, and an entry Trek for $649.

Maybe I will fix this up, was quoted $75 to $100 for bar end shifters installed.
They recommended new tires and tubes, about $50, then $30 to $85 for a decent saddle (more comfortable, mine doesn't have any tears).
Have to check into the cost of top mounted brakes too.

The owner said that some of the French bikes of the early 70's---(think I got mine in '74) had company specific fittings, a little different metric, that sometimes required their tools to work on. He remembers grinding allen wrenches to make a custom size. I'll try your suggested sizes and let you know.
Hopefully lowering the seat would help make it feel more stable.

Still, it's tempting to sell it and put the money into the Sunfire subbwoofer by Carver.

 

[zeeto]

To answer your price question:

The shop carried Peugeot and got the LeJeune in an order mix-up. he didn't want to stock it, and it is a taller than normal frame.

He sold it to me for $225 if I recall, about $25 over his invoice.

 

[alfeng]

Much thanks.

Stopped at the local shop this morning, sticker shock.

They had a Cannondale, last years on sale for $649, marked down from $929, and an entry Trek for $649.

Maybe I will fix this up, was quoted $75 to $100 for bar end shifters installed.
They recommended new tires and tubes, about $50, then $30 to $85 for a decent saddle (more comfortable, mine doesn't have any tears).
Have to check into the cost of top mounted brakes too.

The owner said that some of the French bikes of the early 70's---(think I got mine in '74) had company specific fittings, a little different metric, that sometimes required their tools to work on. He remembers grinding allen wrenches to make a custom size. I'll try your suggested sizes and let you know.
Hopefully lowering the seat would help make it feel more stable.

Still, it's tempting to sell it and put the money into the Sunfire subbwoofer by Carver.

FWIW. "$75 to $100 for bar end shifters installed" sounds like a fair price ... figure that vintage-or-"used" shifters would cost YOU $40+, and a new set of Shimano bar-ends certainly retail in the $80+ range ... since they will be set up in FRICTION MODE, just ASK whether they are 8-/9-/10-speed when indexed for your future reference ... for you, 8-speed is probably, actually the best because if you ever update the freewheel to a 7-speed (you'll probably need to respace the rear triangle to 126mm, but maybe not since that was about the time that I think 126mm was coming into vogue) you will find that it (the 7-speed freewheel) will probably have the same spacing that is used for 8-speed indexing.

Since you are 6' tall, you may want to consider a BROOKS B17 saddle ... both the standard saddle (which I would recommend for a taller/larger rider) and the narrower versions are wider than a typical "plastic" saddle (as they are referred to by some). The disadvantage of the BROOKS (or, other leather saddles) is that they are heavier & require periodic maintenance (I prefer SnoSeal). I think that people who find leather saddles uncomfortable are not sitting on them properly OR they are not mounted on the bike properly ... BUT, that is often true with many saddles.

METRIC is/was/has-been really pretty standard, and I reckon the original (?) shop only had SAE tools at the time (1974) ... generally, the components which didn't use METRIC Allen wrenches had hex bolt heads.

 

[alfeng]

To answer your price question:

The shop carried Peugeot and got the LeJeune in an order mix-up. he didn't want to stock it, and it is a taller than normal frame.

He sold it to me for $225 if I recall, about $25 over his invoice.

That was a really good price for 1974 for the bike you have ... the retail was probably between $350 & $400 at the time.

The frame really isn't too large for you (it does look LARGER than a 60cm c-c frame, BTW) ... I think you are dealing with some residual, psychological baggage from the original shop owner's comments ...

What you could do to make it "feel" smaller is to put a shorter stem on the bike ... it's tough to tell from the angle of the picture, but it looks like your stem is about 130mm long, and a 90mm stem might make the bike feel better to you. The "vertical" portion of French stems are 22.0 in diameter ... 22.2 is the standard ... the diameter of most stems can be easly reduced with some light passes of a file + some emery cloth to "polish" the file marks (OR, just use emery cloth).

 

[zeeto]

Thanks again for the reply.

I feel so stupid when people talk about spacing and converting to 7 or 8 speed, been so long since I was involved in this, I'm at least 25 years behind.

Are you suggesting a single gear cluster on the back wheel of 7-8 or 9 gears and no shifter up front at all, making it a single derailleur, single shifter, bike?
Sounds easy actually, I'm not sure for casual riding I ever understood the need for 21 speeds.

 

[zeeto]

Stem?

Wow am I stupid!
I assume you're speaking of the stem the seat attaches to?
How about just lowering it, that's waht I'm shooting for?

 

[artemidorus]

Stem?

Wow am I stupid!
I assume you're speaking of the stem the seat attaches to?
How about just lowering it, that's waht I'm shooting for?

The stem attaches the handle bar to the fork's steerer tube. (The seat post holds the saddle).

 

[zeeto]

Much thanks.

I guess you never learn anything if you don't ask.

 

[alfeng]

Are you suggesting a single gear cluster on the back wheel of 7-8 or 9 gears and no shifter up front at all, making it a single derailleur, single shifter, bike?
Sounds easy actually, I'm not sure for casual riding I ever understood the need for 21 speeds.

No, sorry for confusing the issue ... changing the wheel is a (distant?) future-or-never possibility.

For the time being, if/after you change the downtube shifters to bar-ends, just leave the chain on the inner chainring & use the 14-32? 5-speed? freewheel for getting around town ... of course, if the Columbus area is "flat" & you feel "fit" then you can just leave the chain on the larger, outer chainring.

For the time being, I recommend (FWIW) that you don't worry about ANY other changes EXCEPT the stem length, (possibly) the saddle & tires.

As far as having MORE gears, some people like to pedal at a constant cadence, and having more gears (within a given range) makes that easier to accomplish ... and, some people's "casual riding" is in hilly our mountainous areas, so having a triple [with 27-to-30 gears!] is sometimes an option they choose to widen the range of gears they have to choose from.

 

[zeeto]

Thanks for the clarification. It's easy to confuse someone like me who has been out of it for so long that I don't even have the terminology down anymore.
I'm going to go the $250 reserve/eBay route. if someone wants to pay a decent price it's theirs, otherwise, I'll stick a couple hundred in it myself and ride it again.

Thanks to all.

Joe

 

[zeeto]

Here's a Reynolds/LeJeune frame on eBay, current bid is $150.

http://www.cyclingforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=3712510

Item number 220196417814 if the link doesn't work.

 

[alfeng]

I think that if you actually plan on cycling beyond the next few months that you will regret selling your LeJeune ... because (by my reckoning) you probably won't be able to get an equivalent quality bike for under $1500 unless you get really lucky (yes, THAT can happen -- someone was just asking about a sweet deal on a TREK 5200 w/ Ultegra components for $1000 -- he's hesitating for unknown reasons).

As odd as this may sound, I recommend that for "casual riding" you go to TARGET (or, equivalent) and buy a $150 bike ... ride whatever you get through this Spring & Summer, and then decide ...

HMMmm. Of course, if you were planning on sharing whatever proceeds exceeds $500 with 'me' then I heartily suggest you put that puppy up for sale ASAP -- kidding!

 

[zeeto]

If I get more than $500, I'll buy you a drink or two. Of course, that's in
Columbus, OH.
So you recommend a higher Reserve price?
I have a 5-7 year old Trek mountain bike, hate it. Need to get back to a racer or nothing.
Probably sell both for one decent bike like last years Cannondale for $649 (no one likes that?) or buy that sweet, used, Sunfire subwoofer.

What, no audiophiles in here?
One obcession at a time?

 

[alfeng]

If I get more than $500, I'll buy you a drink or two. Of course, that's in
Columbus, OH.
So you recommend a higher Reserve price?

I'm certainly NOT the arbiter of what your LeJeune is worth, BUT I don't think you should sell it for less than $500.

I have a 5-7 year old Trek mountain bike, hate it. Need to get back to a racer or nothing.
Probably sell both for one decent bike like last years Cannondale for $649 (no one likes that?) or buy that sweet, used, Sunfire subwoofer.

Oh, your TREK MTB can be the interim platform for your "casual riding" bike ... just change the tires to "slicks" OR, if you are ambitious, you can put 700c wheels + ROAD tires on it ...

If you are really ambitious, you can use your TREK MTB frame, alone, as the basis for hanging all the rest of whatever components you want to use on it (see attachment). The pic is of a hardtail (but, you could certainly use a frame with a suspension) + carbon fiber fork + 700c wheels + various road components. If you choose quality parts, you can just move the majority of them over to a ROAD frame if you are incline to in the future.

What do you "hate" about your MTB?

BTW/IMO. That $649 for last year's Cannondale isn't worth the premium over whatever you get at TARGET as far as utility for you ... it would be akin to a Schwinn VARSITY from the 70s (not that there was anything necessarily wrong with that ... ). You know, at BOTH ends of the price spectrum, the difference isn't very great along the bell-curve -- look at how tight the price range was back in the 70s. The sweet spot (most bang for your buck) for a bike from an LBS is probably in the $1300-to-$2300 range.

Basically, any sub-$1000 retail-at-an-LBS bike will get you the equivalent of a low(est) end European bike from the 70s as far as components, fit & finish, not that there is anything wrong with that ... but, is that what you really want?

 

[zeeto]

Alrighty then, a $500 reserve it is. Since this isn't a bike you can comparision shop easily, I may as well go for the big bucks or nothing at all.

Hate might be strong, I just don't like the feel of the heavier bike, straight handlebars, big tires, etc. I grew up on Schwinn Continental, a bright yellow Concorde, and a couple Peugeots, all racing bikes with drop bars.
To me that's the feel I remember, soooo, I don't like the MTB very well.

Surprising, a list price of $929 doesn't get you substantiually more than one of those Wal-Mart Schwinns I hear they're selling now.