2009 TDF stage 18: Annecy - Annecy 40.5 km



nonns

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Jul 10, 2006
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DV1976 said:
Just to clarify something. I used second person to generalize not to attack you specifically. I am sorry if it came across like that. I did quote you but i didnt reply specifically to you. It was a general argument. I dont think you are stupid or anything and the only thing that I really disagree with you and feel strongly about it is that perception defines morality and we should accept it. Even if they all dope our stance is that all should be banned for life. Cheating cannot be acceptable, because if it does become then it will become morally justified. Alas if this happens, LA will be the least of our problems.

Fair do's. I enjoy the conversation. Just don't feel that because I happen to take different stance that I'm a dumsh.

BTW For wahat its worth I happen to agree that if there was some way to catch and convict all the dopers then they should all be banned for life. The fact that they're not caught doesn't make it right to do it.

My point was that ultimately if not caught and convicted its as good as not being caught so it all becomes a bit pointless. I'm not certain that the specific riders are more to blame that the apparatus which is failing to deal with them.
 

nonns

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Jul 10, 2006
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Mansmind said:
The Bill of Rights happened long before the civil war. The right to bear arms has more to do with the country (and government) belonging to the people as opposed to the other way around...which can easily happen if you don't have that right. :)

Of course people get shot every day, but making firearms illegal won't affect that at all. The vast majority of murder occurs with illegal weapons anyway. A criminal couldn't care less if he's using an illegal gun vs. a legal one.

Actually I think you'll find it has helped. Banning guns and making them difficult to get hold of has ensured that the UK doesn't have huge death rates due to gun crime. Likewise most of europe. The US obviously fails to see any sort of connection and thus has the deaths. That said this is a conversational area that is entirely irrelevant (well not entirely as I believe two riders got shot) but lets not go down this path. Seemingly the denizens of this forum manage to insult each other enough without bringing guns into it.

And whilst I concede that I wascareless and lazy about the dates of the particular US laws. Hey I last studied any sort of US history a long time ago and can't remember much. The fact remains that the rights were granted when Law and Order were still developing (the world was a rougher and harsher place), communications weren't so good and it was more necessary for people to be self sufficent and to be able to defend themselves. The point is the law is out of date and whatever its original intention it fails to meet the needs of the modern world.
 

nonns

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Jul 10, 2006
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swampy1970 said:
You all sound like a bunch of old haggared housewives who haven't been laid in years.

Call the fecking whambulance will you...

Top story of the day:

Contadraft gets a motorpaced victory in TT.

Cancellara says motorcycles helped Contador - VeloNews

"(Contador) had two gendarmes motorcycle right in front of him,” Cancellara told VeloNews. “When I saw the time differences to Wiggins, I knew it was going to be close. When you watch, at the front, when you have two (motor) bikes, I don’t say it’s done. When I saw those motorbikes very close while watching on television, then I think, OK, then it’s over.”
Cancellara started 77th at 1:42 p.m. and set the early fast time 48:33, which stood until the very last rider on course – Contador – nipped by just three seconds.
Cancellara shook his head in disbelief as two French police motorcycles drove ahead of Contador through a sea of cheering fans. The big Swiss time trial specialist wasn’t making excuses, but he said the two bikes would provide an advantage that might have tipped the odds in Contador’s favor."

... now go back to bitching about doping and sounding like daddy took your iPhone, Barbies and "My Little Pony" toys away.

Blimey. Contadope has additional help. 1000cc's of it. Thats where the drug confusion comes in you see. Its not about drugs its motorcycles.

:D

All is clear.
 

Scotttri

New Member
Oct 11, 2005
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Well im suprised contador could even stand with the amount of drugs he clearly has to be on. I know people can make improvements in disciplines with practice, but going from very average to winning a stage like that is a crock of sh#t. I hope he does get caught!!!
 

swampy1970

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2008
10,057
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Contador was the U23 Spanish National Time Trial champion many years ago... Lets not forget this little fact. The guy knows how to ride against the clock, especially at the end of a stage race where the results are sometimes skewed towards those who are freshest.

However, in a one day time trial event like the Grand Prix des Nations you'd expect Cancellara to win.

Doping blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
 

Bro Deal

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Jun 26, 2006
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guncha said:
I am very disappointed with today's stage. I know that they all dope but Condator should have never won an ITT in TDF. I hate unreal performances when a rider who should never win mountaintop finish does it or a rider who should never win ITT does it. I also found it ridiculous when Heras showed phenomenal result in ITT in his last Vuelta and got disqualified afterwards.
This tour has lost the sense of reality after today's stage. Contador who have been a hero to me if he had lost 1 min or 1 min 30 sec to Cancellara. I have never wished something bad to anyone but it will fair if Contador will get DQ some day.

Unreal victories have been the order of the day since Armstrong used more EPO than anyone else in the 1999 race, transforming himself into the best time trialist and best climber in the world. It has been a joke ever since. The ASO, with full knowledge of the results of Armstrong's retrospectively tested urine, still allowed him to race the Tour. So complaining about Contador does not make sense.

The real tragedy is that Basso, FLandis, and Vino are not there. Those three might have added a little excitement to the race.
 

tmctguer

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Sep 9, 2003
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No_Positives said:
Lance should still be thinking about yellow. I'd bet anything that AC will be disqualified at some point.

i think LA should be as worried as AC. i heard they have developed a test for Geritol-CERA.
 

poulidor

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Jul 31, 2006
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Bro Deal said:
Unreal victories have been the order of the day since Armstrong used more EPO than anyone else in the 1999 race, transforming himself into the best time trialist and best climber in the world. It has been a joke ever since. The ASO, with full knowledge of the results of Armstrong's retrospectively tested urine, still allowed him to race the Tour. So complaining about Contador does not make sense.

The real tragedy is that Basso, FLandis, and Vino are not there. Those three might have added a little excitement to the race.

Since Riis, it's a joke, even Indurain on mountains was a joke too.
 

steve

Administrator
Staff member
Aug 12, 2001
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tmctguer said:
i heard they have developed a test for Geritol-CERA.

Do you have any more information? I googled it and basically found nothing.
 

Mansmind

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Aug 3, 2004
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nonns said:
Actually I think you'll find it has helped. Banning guns and making them difficult to get hold of has ensured that the UK doesn't have huge death rates due to gun crime. Likewise most of europe. The US obviously fails to see any sort of connection and thus has the deaths. That said this is a conversational area that is entirely irrelevant (well not entirely as I believe two riders got shot) but lets not go down this path. Seemingly the denizens of this forum manage to insult each other enough without bringing guns into it.

And whilst I concede that I wascareless and lazy about the dates of the particular US laws. Hey I last studied any sort of US history a long time ago and can't remember much. The fact remains that the rights were granted when Law and Order were still developing (the world was a rougher and harsher place), communications weren't so good and it was more necessary for people to be self sufficent and to be able to defend themselves. The point is the law is out of date and whatever its original intention it fails to meet the needs of the modern world.


Fair points.

Check out Australia however.... and look at the murder rates since a banning of guns has happened there. Unless something has changed recently.. murder rates/violent crime have gone up there instead of down.

There's a city here in Georgia (forget the name) that strangely enough has a local law requiring a household to have a firearm in the house. I have no idea how that became a law, but ironically the crime rate (burgalry, murder, etc.) are nearly 0.

The pros/cons can be debated either way with good arguments to be made on each side.

I'm far from a zealot in either direction, and the only firearms I have in the household are ones I had when I hunted as a child..which I don't do anymore. I haven't actually fired one of them in a very long time although I'm very capable of doing so should the need arise.

I can tell you from recent rumblings I hear in this country that the right to bear arms has become even more important to many. The reasons have nothing to do with a desire to commit a crime (quite the contrary in fact).

This country was founded on the concept of personal freedom as defined in several ways..one of them being freedom from an oppressive government (implied if not specifically said). The right to bear arms, in some respects..was an ultimate guarantee that freedom could be protected. Currently we're finding ourselves in a position in which government is pushing for what many describe as a re-distribution of wealth (for good reason), and also pushing for the removal of one of the rights that ultimately allow society as a whole to stand up and say "no we're not doing that any more".

This is completely off-topic so I'll close it out by saying that the right to bear arms is much deeper than being tied to crime rates. It's a very controversial topic (perhaps even as much so as "did Armstrong dope?")..lol.
 

Ted B

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Sep 12, 2003
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Making guns illegal doesn't make them inacessible to criminals any more than making drugs illegal makes them inaccessible. But this and other political discussions shouldn't matter here.

Contador is aiming to be the new Indurain, and looks to be headed to finish in yellow barring anything unusual. It will be interesting to see what happens in the race for 2nd and 3rd. I don't think Wiggins will have it in him, but we may bs surprised. One thing is for certain, it will be hard and hot on the way up to that big piece of bald rock.
 

tmctguer

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Sep 9, 2003
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It is something new that is a double edged steroid:

here is the scoop on Geritol (paraphrased from a reputable source knowledgeable about this potent substance):

In the body, components of Geritol become a part of your hemoglobin and myoglobin. Hemoglobin carries oxygen through your blood to tissues and organs. Myoglobin helps your muscle cells store oxygen.

Not only that, but Geritol is used to provide vitamins and iron that are not taken in through the diet or are caused by illness, pregnancy, poor nutrition, digestive disorders, and many other conditions.


as for the CERA, here is the details on that (again, taken from a reputable source knowledgeable on this potent substance):

CERA is a pegylated form of epoetin-beta. CERA is a 60-kDa molecule, approximately twice the molecular weight of epoetin-alfa.[12,13] A large methoxy-polyethylene glycol polymer is incorporated into the epoetin molecule, essentially doubling its molecular weight compared with epoetin. This modification markedly prolongs CERA's half-life in humans to about 135 hours. In addition, CERA binds to EpoR more slowly than Epo. These 2 attributes result in CERA triggering the JAK2 Epo signal transduction cascade without being internalized. Consequently, CERA has more sustained biologic activity. CERA has been tested extensively and can be used less frequently than epoetin-alfa or darbepoetin-alfa -- it can be administered either once every other week or once monthly.

so the combined substance is most likely to appeal to cyclists of more advanced years. the younger guys can stick to straight EPO-CERA.
 

Bigclimber

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Jul 15, 2005
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guncha said:
I am very disappointed with today's stage. I know that they all dope but Condator should have never won an ITT in TDF. I hate unreal performances when a rider who should never win mountaintop finish does it or a rider who should never win ITT does it. I also found it ridiculous when Heras showed phenomenal result in ITT in his last Vuelta and got disqualified afterwards.
This tour has lost the sense of reality after today's stage. Contador who have been a hero to me if he had lost 1 min or 1 min 30 sec to Cancellara. I have never wished something bad to anyone but it will fair if Contador will get DQ some day.

What about A. Schleck? Has he ever ridden an ITT even close to this one?
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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And how much faster could Contador have gone with a better position? He was constantly moving back on his saddle throughout the entire TT...Well done, AC.
 

Mansmind

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Aug 3, 2004
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steve said:
So do people and organisations with vested interests. ;)

100% agree, which works from both sides of any issue. All you can do is look at the information available and form your own opinion. In the end that's all any of us have.. an opinion. :)