6 speed to 7 speed upgrade, mountain bike



J

joel roth

Guest
I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
'double shifting' at times to move the chain.

Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed? What
would you recommend? I don't need a high end, expensive cassette.

Thanks.

joel
 
joel roth wrote:
> I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's.

(Elkhorn?)
> It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
> original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires


> 'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>
> Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?

What
> would you recommend? I don't need a high end, expensive cassette.


How about a used one in decent condition, for the cost of a decent
six-pack and shipping?

I do believe the spacing is the same for 6 and 7 speed, (130mm) and
that it's a matter of getting your splined cassette lockring tool to
take off the old lockring. IME, it take a bit of doing to get a
cassette off that's been on a while. Well, not the cassette itself -
that slides right off. It's the lockring that really will have you
cussing.

If you're interested, e-mail me.

HAND,

E.P.
 
joel roth wrote:
> I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
> It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
> original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
> 'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>
> Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?


Are you sure it's a cassette? Cassette hubs were quite uncommon in the
6-speed era. If you're not sure, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7

If it's a thread-on freewheel, you can just buy a 7-speed freewheel and
a new chain, see: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels. You might need
to add a washer to the axle for clearance, might not.

If it's a cassette hub, you'll need to do a body transplant. See:

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7

Sheldon "Which?" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven’t yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don’t wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:01:48 -0600, joel roth
<[email protected]> may have said:

>I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
>It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
>original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
>'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>
>Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed? What
>would you recommend? I don't need a high end, expensive cassette.


You don't need a cassette at all, you need a freewheel. There may be
a need to add a spacer at each end of the axle to provide a little
more clarance on the left while keeping the wheel centered, but I'd
just slap the 7sp freewheel on first and try it as-is; it may work
without having to do anything else. If you need to add spacers,
there's also the issue of the rear dropout spacing to consider; if the
spacers cause you to have to force the dropouts open in order to
position the wheel, then it may be worth getting the rear of the frame
respaced to accomodate the wheel properly.

There are lots of good 7sp freewheels available for reasonable
amounts, and yes, there's a very good chance that this is all you'll
need to buy in order to make it work, provided that the largest
sprocket on the new freewheel is the same size as or not much bigger
than the current one. If you swap to a Megarange freewheel, you run
the risk of going past the limits of what the rear der can handle, and
if you increase the size of the large sprocket by much, you'll
probably need to lengthen the chain or replace it. Of course, putting
on a new chain at the same time that you replace the freewheel is
considered good parctice in any event, unless you're dead sure that
the current chain has little or no wear on it.


--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:31:10 -0500, Sheldon Brown
<[email protected]> may have said:

>joel roth wrote:
>> I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
>>
>> Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?

>
>Are you sure it's a cassette? Cassette hubs were quite uncommon in the
>6-speed era. If you're not sure, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7


Early Elkhorns definitely had a freewheel; see
http://www.firstflightbikes.com/Elkhorn.html

I doubt that Raleigh used a 6-speed cassette on the later Elkhorns.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
Sheldon Brown said:
joel roth wrote:
> I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
> It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
> original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
> 'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>
> Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?


Are you sure it's a cassette? Cassette hubs were quite uncommon in the
6-speed era. If you're not sure, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7

If it's a thread-on freewheel, you can just buy a 7-speed freewheel and
a new chain, see: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels. You might need
to add a washer to the axle for clearance, might not.

If it's a cassette hub, you'll need to do a body transplant. See:

http://sheldonbrown.com/k7

Sheldon "Which?" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| If you haven’t yet discovered the novels |
| of Neal Stephenson, don’t wait! |
| Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Your answer regarding the body raises a red flag on an issue I never attempted before since my cassette bikes all have indexed shifting and my 6 vs. 7 speed cassettes are from quasi-incompatible eras.

Are 6/7 cassette bodies different axial lengths (I have 1 uniglide cassette 6 speed wheel and several hyperglide-C 7 speed wheels in case the answer varies per Shimano era)?
 
I think that it is a freewheel. I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes.
Will this work to remove the freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?

Thanks.

Joel

Werehatrack wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:01:48 -0600, joel roth
><[email protected]> may have said:
>
>
>
>>I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's. (Elkhorn?)
>>It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
>>original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
>>'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>>
>>Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed? What
>>would you recommend? I don't need a high end, expensive cassette.
>>
>>

>
>You don't need a cassette at all, you need a freewheel. There may be
>a need to add a spacer at each end of the axle to provide a little
>more clarance on the left while keeping the wheel centered, but I'd
>just slap the 7sp freewheel on first and try it as-is; it may work
>without having to do anything else. If you need to add spacers,
>there's also the issue of the rear dropout spacing to consider; if the
>spacers cause you to have to force the dropouts open in order to
>position the wheel, then it may be worth getting the rear of the frame
>respaced to accomodate the wheel properly.
>
>There are lots of good 7sp freewheels available for reasonable
>amounts, and yes, there's a very good chance that this is all you'll
>need to buy in order to make it work, provided that the largest
>sprocket on the new freewheel is the same size as or not much bigger
>than the current one. If you swap to a Megarange freewheel, you run
>the risk of going past the limits of what the rear der can handle, and
>if you increase the size of the large sprocket by much, you'll
>probably need to lengthen the chain or replace it. Of course, putting
>on a new chain at the same time that you replace the freewheel is
>considered good parctice in any event, unless you're dead sure that
>the current chain has little or no wear on it.
>
>
>
>
 
A shy person asked:

> Are 6/7 cassette bodies different axial lengths (I have 1 uniglide
> cassette 6 speed wheel and several hyperglide-C 7 speed wheels in case
> the answer varies per Shimano era)?


These are generally about the same length. 6-speed clusters generally
have a wider sprocket-to-sprocket spacing than 7-speeds, so the overall
axial length rarely differs significantly.

Sheldon "Close Enough" Brown
+--------------------------------------------+
| Never worry about theory as long as the |
| machinery does what it's supposed to do. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> joel roth wrote:
>
>> I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's.
>> (Elkhorn?) It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS
>> replaced the original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works,
>> but requires 'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>>
>> Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?

>
>
> Are you sure it's a cassette? Cassette hubs were quite uncommon in
> the 6-speed era. If you're not sure, see:
> http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7
>
> If it's a thread-on freewheel, you can just buy a 7-speed freewheel
> and a new chain, see: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels. You might
> need to add a washer to the axle for clearance, might not.
>
> If it's a cassette hub, you'll need to do a body transplant. See:
>
> http://sheldonbrown.com/k7
>
> Sheldon "Which?" Brown
> +--------------------------------------------+
> | If you haven’t yet discovered the novels |
> | of Neal Stephenson, don’t wait! |
> | Start with Snow Crash or Quicksilver |
> +--------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>
 
joel roth wrote:

> I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
> freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?


If it's a Shimano or SRAM freewheel, and isn't on beastly tight, it
should work.

Sheldon "No Guarantee" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| If one lets fear or hate or anger take possession |
| of the mind, they become self-forged chains. |
| --Helen Gahagan Douglas |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
"joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
> freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?


I recommend a breaker bar in addition to the freewheel removal tool.
That way you have a really long lever arm to pull.

A long piece of pipe over your wrench handle should work if you don't bend the
pipe. I'm sure I've bent pipe that way before.
 

> "joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think that it is a freewheel. I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the freewheel, or do I need the

FR 1?

If it's a freewheel, you'll need a freewheel tool.

FWIW, I've seen both 6-speed FW and cassette on late 80s MTBs. The only 6-speed cassette I've
seen was Exage or similar (Exage Mountain?) low-end Shimano.
 
Thank you very much to all who responded. I'll give it a try.

Joel

Sheldon Brown wrote:

> joel roth wrote:
>
>> I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
>> freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?

>
>
> If it's a Shimano or SRAM freewheel, and isn't on beastly tight, it
> should work.
>
> Sheldon "No Guarantee" Brown
> +-----------------------------------------------------+
> | If one lets fear or hate or anger take possession |
> | of the mind, they become self-forged chains. |
> | --Helen Gahagan Douglas |
> +-----------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>
 
[email protected] wrote:

>
> "joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
>> freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?

>
> I recommend a breaker bar in addition to the freewheel removal tool.
> That way you have a really long lever arm to pull.


Or if you have a bench vise, put the freewheel tool in the vise, and turn
the wheel. I've also improvised something similar by using a box wrench
wedged between two boards in my porch in the place of a vise.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
 
David said:

> "joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think that it is a freewheel. I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the freewheel, or do I need the

FR 1?

If it's a freewheel, you'll need a freewheel tool.

FWIW, I've seen both 6-speed FW and cassette on late 80s MTBs. The only 6-speed cassette I've
seen was Exage or similar (Exage Mountain?) low-end Shimano.

There were 6 speed Durace Uniglide cassettes as well. FWIW, my 6 speed cassette is Exage, but I thought there were other 6 speed cassette groupos out there besides those two.

There are 6 speed Hyperglide cassettes out there too.
 
David wrote:

> "joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the
>>freewheel, or do I need the FR 1?

>
>
> I recommend a breaker bar in addition to the freewheel removal tool.
> That way you have a really long lever arm to pull.
>
> A long piece of pipe over your wrench handle should work if you don't bend the
> pipe. I'm sure I've bent pipe that way before.


With a long enough cheater bar (e.g. 10-foot AW rod) it is possible to
bend steel pipe wrenches and break aluminium alloy pipe wrenches.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
 
David wrote:
>
> FWIW, I've seen both 6-speed FW and cassette on late 80s MTBs. The

only 6-speed cassette I've
> seen was Exage or similar (Exage Mountain?) low-end Shimano.


Long, long ago, *all* of Shimano's lines included 6-speed cassettes,
from Dura-Ace:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/21.html
down to Adamas:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/33.html

(Adamas? Wasn't he on "Battlestar Galactica"?)

I seem to recall that the very first Dura-Ace cassettes were available
in *5-speed*. The catalog shows 5-speed 600EX hubs:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/24.html
(Check out the nifty high-flange cassette hubs- I wonder if any of them
made it to the U.S.)

Jeff
 
>>joel roth wrote:
>>>I have an older Raleigh mountain bike from the late 1980's.

>>(Elkhorn?)
>>>It has six speeds in back. Several years ago the LBS replaced the
>>>original shifter with a 7 speed index shifter. It works, but requires
>>>'double shifting' at times to move the chain.
>>>Can I simply replace replace the 6 speed cassette with a 7 speed?


> Sheldon Brown Wrote:
>>Are you sure it's a cassette? Cassette hubs were quite uncommon in the
>>6-speed era. If you're not sure, see: http://sheldonbrown.com/free-k7
>>If it's a thread-on freewheel, you can just buy a 7-speed freewheel and
>>a new chain, see: http://harriscyclery.com/freewheels. You might need
>>to add a washer to the axle for clearance, might not.
>>If it's a cassette hub, you'll need to do a body transplant. See:
>>http://sheldonbrown.com/k7


meb wrote:
> Your answer regarding the body raises a red flag on an issue I never
> attempted before since my cassette bikes all have indexed shifting and
> my 6 vs. 7 speed cassettes are from quasi-incompatible eras.
> Are 6/7 cassette bodies different axial lengths (I have 1 uniglide
> cassette 6 speed wheel and several hyperglide-C 7 speed wheels in case
> the answer varies per Shimano era)?


Yep. Six speed cassette bodies are about 28.5mm, sevens are
about 31 and 8/9 are about 34.5mm.

Freewheel or cassette six speeds are usually 126mm OLD and
7-8-9 130mm, 135 for mountain format and some tyouring
applications.

If you run a seven speed cassette on an 8/9 body, add a
spacer ( there are plenty in between the cogs of the
cassette you're throwing out)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
>>"joel roth" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>I think that it is a freewheel. I have a park FR 5G to remove cassettes. Will this work to remove the freewheel, or do I need the

> FR 1?


David wrote:
> If it's a freewheel, you'll need a freewheel tool.
> FWIW, I've seen both 6-speed FW and cassette on late 80s MTBs. The only 6-speed cassette I've
> seen was Exage or similar (Exage Mountain?) low-end Shimano.


Six speed cassettes are pre-HG. The last cog screws to the
body.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971