{Adel} Two wheels quicker than four



cfsmtb

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
4,963
0
0
fyi - more wheelie good fun re: commuter cyclists vs smog boxes. Hey Gemma, wanna take Mr Conlon out for some interval training? ;)

**********

Two wheels quicker than four
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20015449-5006301,00.html
August 02, 2006 11:30pm. Article from: The Advertiser

Cyclists commuting to work in the city have a distinct advantage over motorists when it comes to travelling times, an experiment by staff at The Advertiser has found.

This morning four teams set off from designated points north, east, south and west of the CBD, one person on a bike and one driving a car, to see who would make it to their desk first.

Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.

Notably, IT analyst Gary Pike - who used a dedicated cycling route that runs parallel to the O-Bahn track - reached The Advertiser building 14 minutes ahead of photographer Tait Schmaal, who drove along a similar route.

The result supports Bicycle Institute of South Australia chairman Sam Powrie's call for dedicated cycling routes along rail corridors, known as "green travel corridors".

Mr Powrie said the corridors would encourage more people to cycle because they provided a safer option than riding on arterial roads.

The institute is calling for the Government to make a funding commitment to green travel corridors in the upcoming State Budget, he said.

See the full story and pictures in tomorrow's Advertiser.

****

The great race
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20021703-2682,00.html
August 05, 2006 12:15am. Article from: The Advertiser

Cyclists commuting to work in the city during morning peak hour have a distinct advantage over motorists when it comes to travel times, an Advertiser trial has found.

Yesterday, eight staff from The Advertiser raced from their doors to their desks - half on bicycles and the rest in cars - and the bike riders won hands down.

But Transport Minister Patrick Conlon yesterday indicated he was unlikely to be seen riding to work along Adelaide's failing major transport corridors. "I'm not sure if I could beat a car on my bike," he said.

One of the Advertiser cyclists beat his driving counterpart by 14 minutes.

Information Technology analyst Gary Pike had an advantage over the other cyclists - riding in from the northern suburbs he was able to use bikeways to save himself navigating traffic on busy arterial roads.

Bicycle Institute of South Australia chairman Sam Powrie said he was not surprised the cyclists had arrived between four to 14 minutes ahead of the motorists.

He said Mr Pike's example supported the need for dedicated cycling routes identified as "green travel corridors" in the State Government's cycling strategy, Safety in Numbers.

"The bikeways Mr Pike used are not continuous - they are semi-finished - but his example goes to illustrate the potential of cycling," he said.

"For many people, cycling is a very realistic way of freeing themselves from the iron grip of petrol prices and car ownership, and it has enormous health benefits."

Mr Powrie said he was calling on the State Government to commit funding to green travel corridors in the upcoming Budget.

RAA traffic and safety project manager Rita Excell said motorists using Fullarton Rd were now travelling significantly slower than they were three years ago. The average morning peak hour speed on the road is 21km/h, compared to 28km/h in 2003.

"They are spending almost five minutes longer to travel the same distance," she said.

Over the same period, average speeds on South Rd have stayed relatively constant at 22-23km/h, but were still well below acceptable levels of 30km/h for a road zoned at 60km/h, she said.

The RAA believes the planned north-south route and an effectively functioning ring route around the city would reduce driving times.

"When completed, this investment will address the long-standing congestion issues affecting commuters travelling into and around the city from north and south of Adelaide," Ms Excell said.
 
In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:12:42 +1000
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their
> way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth
> Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.


Does this include shower and change time?

Bet it doesn't :)

None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
should be table to desk - that is, get up from the kitchen table
after breakfast wearing the clothes you are going to leave in, pack
all things needing packing, out the door and go. Clock doesn't stop
till you are sitting at your desk ready to start work.

This means the cyclist might have to have a few minutes sorting their
work clothes and 10-20 minutes showering and changing.


Zebee
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:

> Does this include shower and change time?
>
> Bet it doesn't :)


And it probably doesn't include any shower time before they leave
either. If the person needs a shower -- and a lot of people with short
commutes don't, not forgetting many blue-collar workers -- it may be a
case of having the shower after the commute rather than before. That
means no extra time.
>
> None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
> should be table to desk


If you're going to be scrupulous, surely it should be from alarm to desk.

But insistence on exactness is blurring the real point: that the
pre-conceived ideas many people have about cycling being slow aren't
always based on fact.

--
Shane Stanley
 
In aus.bicycle on Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:52:51 +1000
Shane Stanley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> If you're going to be scrupulous, surely it should be from alarm to desk.


Maybe. But if it is about shorter time to commute then the whole of
the commute has to be sorted.

After all, if parking time is counted so should shower time. Just as
you might not need a shower, you might easily find a park. (eg, most
folk at my work who drive have a carpark they pay for. So they aren't
going to be spending time parking.)

>
> But insistence on exactness is blurring the real point: that the
> pre-conceived ideas many people have about cycling being slow aren't
> always based on fact.


I don't think that's what these stunts are about at all.

They are about how cars are now slow. Secondarily that bikes are
quicker than cars.

If they are going to push the idea that cycling will get you there
quicker, then they should be upfront about the times.

Zebee
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:12:42 +1000
> cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their
>> way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth
>> Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.

>
> Does this include shower and change time?
>


I really can't understand why this gets raised all the time. If I drive,
or motorbike, I shower before I leave, then drive. If I cycle, I shower
when I get to work. Either way the shower the takes up the same amount
of time, so is irrelevant to the comparison between car and bike. The
only way it would be relevant is if you wouldn't shower before driving
to work and I don't knwo anyone who does that.

DaveB
 
"Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:12:42 +1000
> cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their
>> way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth
>> Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.

>
> Does this include shower and change time?
>
> Bet it doesn't :)
>
> None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
> should be table to desk - that is, get up from the kitchen table
> after breakfast wearing the clothes you are going to leave in, pack
> all things needing packing, out the door and go. Clock doesn't stop
> till you are sitting at your desk ready to start work.
>
> This means the cyclist might have to have a few minutes sorting their
> work clothes and 10-20 minutes showering and changing.
>
>
> Zebee


If I drive or catch publice transport, I shower and dress and home. If I
ride, I do it at work. Donning knicks and jersey is the work of a moment. In
other words there's no real time penalty for me.
 
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>
> I don't think that's what these stunts are about at all.
>
> They are about how cars are now slow. Secondarily that bikes are
> quicker than cars.


These stunts are about travelling time as far as I can see. Travelling by
car in city peak hour is not very fast. Last time I checked showering didn't
come under the category of 'travelling'. It is more a case of preparation
for travel, and as far as I'm aware most people shower about once a day
anyhow, the question of whether it's before breakfast, after the commute or
in the evening is pretty irrelevant to travel times. Sure there is some
extra organisation of bags, clothes etc. to ride, and bike parking and maybe
a change at the end, but car drivers have other hidden time swallowers.

When I drive home from work, for some reason I am often tempted to stop off
en-route to get a snack, or do a bit of unnecessary shopping. I manage to
avoid this temptation when I ride.

> If they are going to push the idea that cycling will get you there
> quicker, then they should be upfront about the times.


If you want to include all preparation time you should include the dead time
queueing for and buying petrol, the time spent getting a service organised,
the time spent in the bank organising a loan to pay for the car. Then
there's all that time spent to actually earn the extra $$$$ to pay for all
these things.

Where do you think we should stop in the time calculation for travelling?

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
 
Resound wrote:

> If I drive or catch publice transport, ........

^^^^^^
another reason to bike it instead of catch the bus :)

--
beerwolf (remove numbers from email address)
 
Peter Signorini said:
These stunts are about travelling time as far as I can see. Travelling by
car in city peak hour is not very fast. Last time I checked showering didn't
come under the category of 'travelling'. It is more a case of preparation
for travel, and as far as I'm aware most people shower about once a day
anyhow, the question of whether it's before breakfast, after the commute or
in the evening is pretty irrelevant to travel times. Sure there is some
extra organisation of bags, clothes etc. to ride, and bike parking and maybe
a change at the end, but car drivers have other hidden time swallowers.

Precisely, whatever 'penalty time' is irrevalent. When I took part in the Commuter Challenge whatever last November on ABC 774, a main time swallower for car-driving Jeremy was finding a carparking spot + ticket. Possibly the worst a cyclist could content with is a waiting line at the showers, if the workplace has end of trip facilities. Or not planning properly and having to walk around all day in the tap dancing disco shoes. (I've done worst than that & survived the embarrassment!)

However, going back to anecdotal stuff I've heard from car commuters, how many cyclists have to go move their bike constantly during the day to avoid the grey ghosts? Nup?
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:12:42 +1000
> cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their
>>way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth
>>Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.

>
>
> Does this include shower and change time?
>
> Bet it doesn't :)
>
> None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
> should be table to desk - that is, get up from the kitchen table
> after breakfast wearing the clothes you are going to leave in, pack
> all things needing packing, out the door and go. Clock doesn't stop
> till you are sitting at your desk ready to start work.
>
> This means the cyclist might have to have a few minutes sorting their
> work clothes and 10-20 minutes showering and changing.
>
>
> Zebee



Well I have done mine brecky table to desk and working. From Glen
Iris to Hawthorn

Bike. Besk 14 mins. Worse (well worse when I was hurrying) 17 min
Motorcycle. Best. 11 min. (Silly effort) Worse 17 min
Car. Best 12 min. Worse 44 min.

Dave
 
Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote:

>In aus.bicycle on Sat, 5 Aug 2006 15:12:42 +1000
>cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Every cyclist arrived first while the motorists continued to make their
>> way through the congested traffic, or searched for a spot in Waymouth
>> Street's busy Topham Mall carpark.

>
>Does this include shower and change time?
>
>Bet it doesn't :)
>
>None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
>should be table to desk - that is, get up from the kitchen table
>after breakfast wearing the clothes you are going to leave in, pack
>all things needing packing, out the door and go. Clock doesn't stop
>till you are sitting at your desk ready to start work.
>
>This means the cyclist might have to have a few minutes sorting their
>work clothes and 10-20 minutes showering and changing.
>
>
>Zebee


But if you consider the time between the alarm going off and starting
work, does it make any difference if you shower at home before you
leave, or at work after you arrive?

Ted.
==============================================================
| Ted Linnell <[email protected]> |
| |
| Nunawading, Victoria , Australia |
==============================================================
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Does this include shower and change time?
>
> Bet it doesn't :)
>
> None of these comparisons seem to, and I think that's a flaw. It
> should be table to desk - that is, get up from the kitchen table
> after breakfast wearing the clothes you are going to leave in, pack
> all things needing packing, out the door and go. Clock doesn't stop
> till you are sitting at your desk ready to start work.
>
> This means the cyclist might have to have a few minutes sorting their
> work clothes and 10-20 minutes showering and changing.


That's just silly. Doesn't the driver have to shower and change before
they leave home? Oh, I get it, you shower before you put on your bike
clobber, then shower again at work?

Donga
 
In aus.bicycle on 6 Aug 2006 02:18:29 -0700
Donga <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> That's just silly. Doesn't the driver have to shower and change before
> they leave home? Oh, I get it, you shower before you put on your bike
> clobber, then shower again at work?


I was thinking of the way these stunts always start at the same time.

15 min early start by the car driver might not make a lot of
difference (except in adelaide...) but it's still not a true
comparison.

Zebee
 
Zebee Johnstone said:
I was thinking of the way these stunts always start at the same time.

Cripes how novel and unusual - leaving for work at the same time. Isn't that placing the completing transport modes on a equal footing to gauge travel times?

Zebee Johnstone said:
15 min early start by the car driver might not make a lot of difference (except in adelaide...) but it's still not a true
comparison.

In the Melbourne example I participated in last year, we all left at the same time and from the same location. Can't speak for how the Adelaide example was organised but so you want a handicap now?
 
In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Aug 2006 20:41:54 +1000
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking of the way these stunts always start at the same time.

>
> Cripes how novel and unusual - leaving for work at the same time. Isn't
> that placing the completing transport modes on a equal footing to gauge
> travel times?


BUt everyone's busy saying that the time taken from off bike to desk
doesn't matter, because the car driver is doing the same things just
at the other end of the trip.

If the travel times are to be compared then all the time involved in
choosing that transport should be. So the bike rider has to leave
shower-and-change-time earlier.

Else they are not on equal footing.

Zebee
 
Zebee Johnstone said:
If the travel times are to be compared then all the time involved in
choosing that transport should be. So the bike rider has to leave
shower-and-change-time earlier.

Motorists don't have a teleporter beaming them directly from car door to office pod, even most PT users still have to use shanks pony at some point of the journey, so your point, if any, is getting more scrambled. Do other morning chores such as breakfast, lippy application and random nose/ear picking have to be factored in as time suck as well?
 
cfsmtb said:
Motorists don't have a teleporter beaming them directly from car door to office pod, even most PT users still have to use shanks pony at some point of the journey, so your point, if any, is getting more scrambled. Do other morning chores such as breakfast, lippy application and random nose/ear picking have to be factored in as time suck as well?

Me too!

I recently moved to Melbourne, so was genuinely interested in the comparison of travel times. Measuring door-to-door, I get tram = 35min, train = 30min, on foot = 25min, on bike = 15min. The shower takes the same amount of time no matter which way I go...

R

PS. 35min for a tram journey of a little over 5km means it's little wonder the trams are half empty even at peak hour.
 
ritcho wrote:
> cfsmtb Wrote:
>> Motorists don't have a teleporter beaming them directly from car door to
>> office pod, even most PT users still have to use shanks pony at some
>> point of the journey, so your point, if any, is getting more scrambled.
>> Do other morning chores such as breakfast, lippy application and random
>> nose/ear picking have to be factored in as time suck as well?

>
> Me too!
>
> I recently moved to Melbourne, so was genuinely interested in the
> comparison of travel times. Measuring door-to-door, I get tram = 35min,
> train = 30min, on foot = 25min, on bike = 15min. The shower takes the
> same amount of time no matter which way I go...


Similarly, on PT it takes me about 45-50 minutes (Train then tram), but
by bike is variable. I have two routes: The one to work is entirely by
road, which takes me about 25/30 minutes through still relatively empty
streets. In the afternoon evenings I tend to take the Yarra trail most
of the way which doubles the travel time, but considering the traffic
(and my own weariness), considerably increases my chances of making it
home without being smeared down the side of a 4WD. Total travel time
works out about the same, but I'd rather be on the bike then crammed
into an overloaded train.

--
daveL
 
In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Aug 2006 22:10:02 GMT
Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> streets. In the afternoon evenings I tend to take the Yarra trail most
> of the way which doubles the travel time, but considering the traffic
> (and my own weariness), considerably increases my chances of making it
> home without being smeared down the side of a 4WD. Total travel time
> works out about the same, but I'd rather be on the bike then crammed
> into an overloaded train.


Door to door by train takes about an hour give or take. Bit over 10
mins walk to the station, 25 mins to Central, 15 mins to get the next
train to North Sydney and then a bit under 10 min walk to my building.

Motorcycle is about 35-45 mins depending on traffic and if I get my
preferred bike park.

Bicycle is an around hour and 10 min door to door, which will no
doubt decrease as I get fitter but I don't know by how much.


Zebee
 
Zebee Johnstone said:
In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Aug 2006 20:41:54 +1000
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking of the way these stunts always start at the same time.

>
> Cripes how novel and unusual - leaving for work at the same time. Isn't
> that placing the completing transport modes on a equal footing to gauge
> travel times?


BUt everyone's busy saying that the time taken from off bike to desk
doesn't matter, because the car driver is doing the same things just
at the other end of the trip.

If the travel times are to be compared then all the time involved in
choosing that transport should be. So the bike rider has to leave
shower-and-change-time earlier.

Else they are not on equal footing.

Zebee
I do take shower time into consideration when deciding between walking, PT, or bike. Not having a personal ensuite for my office :rolleyes: I need to go to office (bike stays in office with me), grab towel, shampoo and various washing stuff out of cupboard, unpack clothes for the day, go downstairs, often as not line up for the shower (guess which academic discipline takes the longest in the shower??:D ), etc. etc. Not being able to walk down the hall and use a bathroom where everything is already within reach at least doubles the time, even without having to wait.

ali