Advice pse on damage due to road surfsce

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Pinky, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Pinky

    Pinky Guest

    I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    Now, this is a road which I cycle on several times each week since it is so
    close to home, but I haven't hit this "hole" previously. Indeed I wouldn't
    have hit it today excepting I was being passed by 2 or 3 cars at the time
    and didn't have the room to manoeuvre round it -- and I was travelling at
    about 25 mph on the beginning of a down hill bit.which probably explains why
    it happened.

    So, although I am fully insured, should I approach the local authority
    responsible and ask about the dreaded "compensation"?

    I have never made such an approach in my life but one hears so much these
    days about people claiming over trips on a pavement and so on.

    I am also very much aware about a deterioration in road surfaces locally (
    there has been a local authority reduction in expenditure in road
    maintenance for a few years now and it shows -- it seems to be a policy of
    patch and fill).

    So should I approach them and ask them to pay up -- or is it just too much
    hassle!

    Views please!

    Trevor A Panther
    In South Yorkshire,
    England, United Kingdom.
    www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
     
    Tags:


  2. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Sun, Pinky <[email protected]> wrote:

    > So, although I am fully insured, should I approach the local authority
    > responsible and ask about the dreaded "compensation"?
    >
    > I have never made such an approach in my life but one hears so much these
    > days about people claiming over trips on a pavement and so on.


    I did similar on my commute once. I didn't 'ask' them, so much as
    phone them up and tell them I would be claiming. I subsequently
    supplied a photograph of the pothole, a copy of the receipt for new
    rim, and a letter 'requesting' (in a polite-but-no-debate-about-it
    sort of tone) payment.

    This had two beneficial effects:

    1: Pothole was filled within 8 hrs (I hit it cycling home,
    photographed it next am cycling to work, telephoned council about
    10am, it was filled in by the time I cycled home).

    2: A cheque for the cost of the rim appeared.

    > Views please!


    Tbh, effect 1 was the most beneficial effect. If it takes threats
    about money to trigger immediate-filling-in I'm all for making threats
    about money.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  3. vernon

    vernon Guest

    > I am also very much aware about a deterioration in road surfaces locally (
    > there has been a local authority reduction in expenditure in road
    > maintenance for a few years now and it shows -- it seems to be a policy

    of
    > patch and fill).
    >
    > So should I approach them and ask them to pay up -- or is it just too much
    > hassle!
    >
    > Views please!
    >

    If you have a camera, you should take a photograph of the pot hole as
    evidence to be submitted with your claim. From previous postings, possibly
    here, you could be in for a protracted battle to part the council from its
    money.

    A claim through the small claims court might work and might be worth
    investigating - there is a minimum value for the claim and I'm not sure what
    it is. It's cheaper for the council to settle out of court than to be
    represented to defend the against the claim.

    Good luck.
     
  4. Sandy Morton

    Sandy Morton Guest

    In article <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > So, although I am fully insured, should I approach the local
    > authority responsible and ask about the dreaded "compensation"?


    > I have never made such an approach in my life but one hears so much
    > these days about people claiming over trips on a pavement and so on.


    If you approach them in a reasonable manner and don't demand too much
    you will normally be OK - works with our LA - where I claim for a few
    new wheels each year due to potholes.

    --
    A T (Sandy) Morton
    on the Bicycle Island
    In the Global Village
    http://www.millport.net
     
  5. Pinky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > I am also very much aware about a deterioration in road surfaces locally (
    > there has been a local authority reduction in expenditure in road
    > maintenance for a few years now and it shows -- it seems to be a policy of
    > patch and fill).
    >
    > So should I approach them and ask them to pay up -- or is it just too much
    > hassle!
    >


    My wife ruined a car tyre on a pothole; the council had a barrier
    around it by the next day and paid the cost of the replacement
    tyre with very little argument. Photos were taken but weren't needed.

    -adrian
     
  6. Pinky

    Pinky Guest

  7. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles
    > from
    > home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the
    > rear wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!


    I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.

    In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority finance
    which would be better spent on social services and education. If you
    pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and possibly
    used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
    ;; of me, by a 'friend'
     
  8. Simon Brooke wrote:
    > in message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles
    >> from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the
    >> rear wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    > I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.
    >
    > In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    > quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority
    > finance which would be better spent on social services and education.
    > If you pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and
    > possibly used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.


    Up to a point. As he said, he would have swerved, but there was overtaking
    traffic, which suggests it's on roads that are heavily trafficked and where
    it's thus reasonable to expect them to be well surfaced.

    Having suffered with a pothole at a pinchpoint on a route that I used daily
    (along with many many cars and maybe one or two other cyclists), I'm less
    sympathetic to believing that it's an imposition on the council to make
    roads work. They tend to work where the houses are expensive, I've found.

    --
    Ambrose
     
  9. Pinky

    Pinky Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    <snip><snip>
    >
    > I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.
    >
    > In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    > quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority finance
    > which would be better spent on social services and education. If you
    > pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and possibly
    > used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.
    >
    > --
    > [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    >
    > The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change
    > feet.
    > ;; of me, by a 'friend'
    >


    Purely in response to your, not unwelcome, comments.
    My tyres were inflated to recommended pressures and were checked the
    previous day.. They are also virtually brand new and as supplied. And I ride
    carefully at nearly all times ( don't we all!), having cycled some 10,000
    miles in the last 2 years. There are, of course, occasions which external
    forces come into play as they did at this time.

    In the very brief time that I had to change direction having seen the
    "hazard" I was already aware of the cars that were in the process of
    overtaking me. I was well positioned in the carriageway being at about 1/3
    of the width.

    I have probably cycled on this section of road several hundred times ( or
    more) -- perhaps familiarity breeds contempt!

    The reason I posed the enquiry was that I have always maintained and paid
    for all damage to my bike myself as a matter of course. I have also had my
    bikes insured ( but have never claimed for "minor" damage). But both as a
    cyclist ( most of the time) and a motorist ( for about 1/3 of the bike
    mileage) I have been very aware of a quite considerable deterioration in the
    quality of road surfaces in recent years . There has been a very apparent
    "fill in holes policy" for a number of years and the post winter period,
    after hard frosts, always open up weaknesses created by that policy. Now, if
    I am aware of bad road surfaces when driving my car I am even more aware of
    them when riding my bike!

    So although I know where most of the bad patches are
    ........but...............I don't see every metre of any road on which I
    cycle. And if I were a stranger ..............!

    I take a very different view to your main comment when I know that
    expenditure on road maintenance has been put on a "back burner" for several
    years.
    (By the way on this same section of road , about 400 metres earlier there
    had been a deeply sunken manhole cover in the main carriageway which I had
    asked to be rectified about for over a year before it was finally repaired.)

    I am aware the no authority can be expected to know of every hole and bit
    of damage on any section of road. But that does not absolve them from
    responsibility. In this event I controlled my bike , in traffic, when the
    road surface caused me to suffer damage to my bike,immediately altering its
    stability which could have put me in danger from the passing cars.
    Trevor A Panther
    In South Yorkshire,
    England, United Kingdom.
    www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
     
  10. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:

    > I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.
    >
    > In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    > quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority
    > finance which would be better spent on social services and education.
    > If you pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and
    > possibly used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.


    Some holes and bumps will throw the rider off the bike, let alone damage a
    wheel. The worst in London are bad enough to make me feel sick just to
    look at! I should claim compensation for physcological damage :)
    Seriously, it is fair that councils compensate victims when they don't
    inspect and fix the roads properly. It's at least as important as
    education, IMO.

    High air pressure will prevent a tyre compressing all the way to the rim,
    whatever you hit, but that's not the only bad thing that can happen to
    rims, wheels, bike and rider, and not everyone wants their tyres that hard
    anyway.

    Of course you should ride carefully but still I think the roads should be
    in a decent state in case you're human and fail to spot one of every five
    hundred potholes you come across, and unfortunate enough for one of those
    one day to be bad enough to damage your bike/self. They are not all easy
    to see, and it is easy to be distracted (by others doing wrong, for
    example).

    After all, road signs, street furniture and junctions have to be easy to
    see. It wouldn't be acceptable for the odd random one to be practically
    invisible whilst driving at a reasonable speed. Cycling at 5 mph and
    continuously staring at every inch of the surface is the only way to
    guarantee you'd *never* run into a pothole. As that's not reasonable,
    let's have the roads maintained properly, please. The claims for
    compensation should encourage the authorities to get on with it.

    ~PB
     
  11. Chris Fox

    Chris Fox Guest

    In message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    <[email protected]> writes
    >I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    >home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    >wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!


    >So should I approach them and ask them to pay up -- or is it just too much
    >hassle!


    You may find the response varies from Local Authority to LA. In my case
    I hit a drain gully that had eroded into the road surface. They (Glos)
    said that they had a duty of care but could not be expected to know of
    all potholes in all roads and were unaware of this one. In the end they
    relented and paid for the cost of a new wheel, but it took about 4
    months of negotiations to get there (and indeed, in the end, they still
    did not admit liability).

    During this time I discovered that the following always resulted in a
    damaged section of the road being repaired:

    Note the location of the hazard, photograph it and then send the details
    to the LA Highways Dept. Inform them that they have now been notified
    and they would be held liable for any damage sustained by a member of
    the public. I also added that I would post a notice adjacent to the
    pothole informing members of the public that the LA were aware of the
    damage but had done nothing to remedy it.

    Within 3-4 days the pothole would be filled.

    Best of luck,
    --
    Chris
     
  12. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Chris Fox wrote:
    > In message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    > <[email protected]> writes
    > >I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    > >home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    > >wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!


    > During this time I discovered that the following always resulted in a
    > damaged section of the road being repaired:


    This is a touch OT but anyway -

    They recently redid the lights at the junction just outside my house
    (and added ASLs). The junction has pedestrian controlled lights and is
    a key point in the access to the local schools - there is a crossing
    warden. The lights have been fitted with pedestrian sensors to avoid
    having to hold up the cars for too long [1]. These sometimes fail to
    register a pedestrian is still there and cancel the push button,
    usually just before the pedestrian phase, so you have to wait a full
    cycle again. We have complained a few times, once to someone actually
    working on them, and a few days ago my wife managed to get the direct
    number of the chap who is responsible for fixing them.

    So, a notice will shortly be appearing on the crossings - "If this
    pedestrian crossing isn't working properly, don't just moan at your
    friends but tell the man who can fix it by calling 01382 xxxxxx"

    Laminated and cable tied to the posts. It seems that the locals are
    really good at moaning amongst themselves but quite apathetic about
    doing anything productive to resolve the issues.

    ...d
     
  13. Arthur Clune

    Arthur Clune Guest

    Pinky wrote:
    > I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    > home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    > wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!


    Learn to bunnyhop! It's easy on clipless pedals (just yank up with feet and
    arms) and also easier at decent speed.

    Arthur

    --
    Arthur Clune
     
  14. Arthur Clune wrote:
    > Pinky wrote:
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    >> wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    > Learn to bunnyhop! It's easy on clipless pedals (just yank up with feet and
    > arms) and also easier at decent speed.
    >



    What ever you do report the hole to the local council. For the two
    counties I cycle in regularly you can report them online and while the
    web interfaces suck to some degree they usually also result in action.
    Just in case they don't I also blog the fact that I reported it so it is
    harder for them to deny.

    Both sites, hampshire and Surrey are listed here:

    <URL:http://del.icio.us/cgerhard/pothole%2Buk>


    --chris
     
  15. Graham

    Graham Guest

    On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:21:07 +0100, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >in message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    >('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles
    >> from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the
    >> rear wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    >I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.
    >
    >In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    >quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority finance
    >which would be better spent on social services and education. If you
    >pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and possibly
    >used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.



    I'm astounded that anyone, particularly a cyclist, would post anything so
    utterly ridiculous.

    There are occasions where it is impossible to manouver around a pothole because
    of traffic, and a badly damaged wheel could easily mean that you lose control of
    the bike, and end up under a passing lorry.

    Similarly, there are occasions when it is not possible to see a pothole, or how
    bad it is, until there is no chance to avoid it.

    You are taking the "blame the victim" mentality to a whole new level with your
    attempt to excuse the council from maintaining roads to a state where they are
    not a potential death threat to cyclists.

    > The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
    > ;; of me, by a 'friend'


    Obviously a very perceptive friend.
     
  16. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Arthur Clune wrote:
    > Pinky wrote:
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    >> wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    > Learn to bunnyhop! It's easy on clipless pedals (just yank up with feet and
    > arms) and also easier at decent speed.
    >


    Somewhat harder (and impressive) for our 'bent colleagues ;-)


    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  17. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Graham wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road
    >> surface quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local
    >> authority finance which would be better spent on social services
    >> and education. If you pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode
    >> more carefully (and possibly used more appropriate tyres, I can't
    >> say) it wouldn't happen.

    >
    >
    > I'm astounded that anyone, particularly a cyclist, would post
    > anything so utterly ridiculous.
    >


    He probably builds trails for Sustrans ;-)

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  18. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Pinky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:b%[email protected]
    >I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles from
    >home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    >wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!


    Bum.

    Around here (Northants) the County Council will pay up if they knew about
    the pothole but will argue like crazy if they didn't.

    They inspect their roads once a year or so -- and repair them once a leap
    century.

    Therefore, if smashing a wheel it is advisable to get a mate to report the
    pothole before you report your accident -- and be somewhat inaccurate about
    the exact date of the incident.

    T
     
  19. Paulmouk

    Paulmouk Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > in message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles
    >> from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the
    >> rear wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    > I'm going to be unsympathetic, I'm afraid.
    >
    > In Britain we've come to expect unrealistic standards of road surface
    > quality. The roads budget takes a huge share of local authority finance
    > which would be better spent on social services and education. If you
    > pumped your tyres up hard enough and rode more carefully (and possibly
    > used more appropriate tyres, I can't say) it wouldn't happen.
    >
    > --
    > [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    >
    > The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change
    > feet.
    > ;; of me, by a 'friend'
    >

    There is a legal obligation on the Highway Authority to maintain the highway
    in a safe and serviceable state.
    Annual survey published a few days ago said that outstanding repairs are the
    greatest ever?
    The lack of maintenance has reached the stage where larger and larger
    amounts of the budget are going on compensation, therefore further
    exacerbating lack of money for maintenance.

    A problem for as long as I've been involved is to 'coat' a failed road
    surface to hide the defects.
    If the road has failed then this treatment won't last very long and the
    money is wasted.
    It's done to try and satisfy as many people as possible.

    Paul.
     
  20. Brian G

    Brian G Guest

    Chris Fox wrote:
    > In message <b%[email protected]>, Pinky
    > <[email protected]> writes
    >> I was out today on a regular route that I use( only a couple of miles
    >> from
    >> home) when I hit a "pothole" in the road and ruined the rim of the rear
    >> wheel of my nearly new velo. I had to walk it home!

    >
    >> So should I approach them and ask them to pay up -- or is it just too
    >> much
    >> hassle!

    >
    > You may find the response varies from Local Authority to LA. In my case
    > I hit a drain gully that had eroded into the road surface. They (Glos)
    > said that they had a duty of care but could not be expected to know of
    > all potholes in all roads and were unaware of this one. In the end they
    > relented and paid for the cost of a new wheel, but it took about 4
    > months of negotiations to get there (and indeed, in the end, they still
    > did not admit liability).


    Councils will almost never admit liability for anything which might
    result in further claims. They are instructed not to do so by their
    insurers. The insurers' instinct (and practice)is to deny any liability
    from the start and only pay up when it looks like they would lose in
    legal proceedings. Even then, payment is usually made "without prejudice".

    --
    Brian G
     
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