another custom Wheel question

[catlike]

I am about to get new wheelset, and consider to go with custom built, But i am totaly confused with those Rim/spoke/hub choices. It is very simple with factory buit's- buy Ksyr. Elites, or Zondas or Fulcrum3- they all promise to be 'universal" wheels.
About rider- I am total amateur, I am riding 4th year now and for 5th season of cycling i want to get something bit better than my curent wheels (Sora hubs, Alex DA16 rims, 36 spokes- i suppose they are basic as basic wheels can be). I weight 63-65kg (140-150 pounds), i am not powerful at all, my avg. speed riding alone is about 30 kmh. I ride almost only flat roads as there are no hills around. And I don't participiate in races: ))

The only think that is clear to me so far is that i don't need 36 spokes per wheel. I suppose 24F,28B or 28F,32B would be fine.

questions

1. Do i need low-20mm profile (good for hills(i dont have) and lighter riders(i am)) or high 30mm profile(good for flats (i ride) and powerful riders (i am not)) rims? Would i be able to feel the aero benefits of 30mm rims, or weight benefits of 20mm?

2. About hubs. The DT 240 are F...ing expensive, and frankly i am not sure if i want cartridge bearings. The DA7900 price sucks, 7800 is 10 spd only (i ride 8 spd). Maybe i could afford Record, but i can get 32H only, and curently i am riding Shimano.
What about Ultegra hubs? They are bit heavy, but are there other minuses compared to DA. The price diference is huge indeed.

 

[dgregory57]

For God's sake man, you are riding Sora, on the flats, don't race, and you are thinking of Dura-Ace???

If you aren't made of money, don't even think of Dura-Ace unless your sponsor gives them to you... Even Ultegra may not be worth the expense.

For bang for the buck components, 105 is the usual best price point!!!

Unless you are climbing or sprinting, the only time weight savings matters is when you are accelerating from a stop... or lifting your bike. For cruising at speed on flat roads the weight of your bike/wheels means almost nothing at all.

You may be able to tell a little with aerodynamics, so going with a deep section rim and minimal spoke count may help you gain 0.5 kph average speed. With an aero rim, and 28 rear, and 24 front, you would have a decent wheel set, that would be durable, and give good aero effect.

Don't go too crazy on ultra deep aero rims, or you will have to deal with handling issues with cross winds.

And for gods sake don't obsess about the weight difference between Ultegra and Dura-Ace!!!!! Plenty of high end amateur racers use Ultegra.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I am about to get new wheelset, and consider to go with custom built, But i am totaly confused with those Rim/spoke/hub choices. It is very simple with factory buit's- buy Ksyr. Elites, or Zondas or Fulcrum3- they all promise to be 'universal" wheels.
About rider- I am total amateur, I am riding 4th year now and for 5th season of cycling i want to get something bit better than my curent wheels (Sora hubs, Alex DA16 rims, 36 spokes- i suppose they are basic as basic wheels can be). I weight 63-65kg (140-150 pounds), i am not powerful at all, my avg. speed riding alone is about 30 kmh. I ride almost only flat roads as there are no hills around. And I don't participiate in races: ))

The only think that is clear to me so far is that i don't need 36 spokes per wheel. I suppose 24F,28B or 28F,32B would be fine.

questions

1. Do i need low-20mm profile (good for hills(i dont have) and lighter riders(i am)) or high 30mm profile(good for flats (i ride) and powerful riders (i am not)) rims? Would i be able to feel the aero benefits of 30mm rims, or weight benefits of 20mm?

2. About hubs. The DT 240 are F...ing expensive, and frankly i am not sure if i want cartridge bearings. The DA7900 price sucks, 7800 is 10 spd only (i ride 8 spd). Maybe i could afford Record, but i can get 32H only, and curently i am riding Shimano.
What about Ultegra hubs? They are bit heavy, but are there other minuses compared to DA. The price diference is huge indeed.

1. I recommend rim, spoke and a hub combo that are light, reliable and that use off the shelf components.

2. 7810 hubs are shimano or sram, 8/9/10s. ultegra hubs are great hubs as well.

How about an Ultegra hubset, Velocity Aerohead rims(OC, OffCenter rear)28 front and 32 rear. Revolution spokes in the front laced 2 cross, 1/2 Revolutions on the left rear, 14/15/14 on the right side, laced 3 cross..brass nipples. Light, reliable(if built well), great all around wheelset. Cheaper than kry-for-me siriums, Zondas or Fulcrum.

 

[catlike]

1. I recommend rim, spoke and a hub combo that are light, reliable and that use off the shelf components.

2. 7810 hubs are shimano or sram, 8/9/10s. ultegra hubs are great hubs as well.

How about an Ultegra hubset, Velocity Aerohead rims(OC, OffCenter rear)28 front and 32 rear. Revolution spokes in the front laced 2 cross, 1/2 Revolutions on the left rear, 14/15/14 on the right side, laced 3 cross..brass nipples. Light, reliable(if built well), great all around wheelset. Cheaper than kry-for-me siriums, Zondas or Fulcrum.

Forgot to mention- I am from Euorope- can't find Kinlin or Velocity rims on British/German online stores. So the available for me choises are Mavics (my LBS have them)/ DT swiss (can order at LBS or buy online)

 

[Phill P]

Of course you can get Kinlin rims, you just have to have them sent of the US. You might have to pay VAT but it can be done.
DA 7850 hubs have a Ti free wheels and are 8-9-10.
Don't worry about cartridge bearings, if they were no good at all there wouldn't be so many good hubs using them. Even consider hubs from chosen formula or Joytech (in that order) to get the cost down.
There is a 40ish mm Al clincher rim that is imported to the UK by somebody called bricklane or brick works or something like that. I can give you a link to another forum talking about them and the build results (PM) You can get them as prebuilts for good value from Soul (sent from taiwan).

 

[catlike]

For God's sake man, you are riding Sora, on the flats, don't race, and you are thinking of Dura-Ace???

If you aren't made of money, don't even think of Dura-Ace unless your sponsor gives them to you... Even Ultegra may not be worth the expense.

For bang for the buck components, 105 is the usual best price point!!!

well i had a suspicions that DA would be overkill, but then again, a lot of people drive BMW ) And no, i am not made of money.
Thanks for advice about Ultegra. Seems like i have to slow down and decide between Ultegra and 105. Are there any main disantvatges of 105 against Ultegra?

 

[catlike]

Of course you can get Kinlin rims, you just have to have them sent of the US. You might have to pay VAT but it can be done.

Yes, but shipping costs and VAT usualy spoil the deal.

 

[kdelong]

well i had a suspicions that DA would be overkill, but then again, a lot of people drive BMW ) And no, i am not made of money.
Thanks for advice about Ultegra. Seems like i have to slow down and decide between Ultegra and 105. Are there any main disantvatges of 105 against Ultegra?

You mean other than Ultegra being slightly lighter than 105? No.

 

[catlike]

You mean other than Ultegra being slightly lighter than 105? No.

beside the weight, i mean, are there some cheaper materials used or design/construction disadvantages.

 

[catlike]

Wiight diference is minimal, but it does look like 105 are 32 and 36 H only anoter excuse to go with Ultegra

 

[Bob Ross]

I am about to get new wheelset, and consider to go with custom built, But i am totaly confused with those Rim/spoke/hub choices.

One of the best parts about going with a custom wheelbuilder is that you don't need to get confused about rim/spoke/hub choices. You don't even have to ask questions on internet forums about rim/spoke/hub choices. Because you're getting custom wheels built! It's your builder's job to take information you provide -- info such as

About rider- I am total amateur, I am riding 4th year now and for 5th season of cycling i want to get something bit better than my curent wheels (Sora hubs, Alex DA16 rims, 36 spokes- i suppose they are basic as basic wheels can be). I weight 63-65kg (140-150 pounds), i am not powerful at all, my avg. speed riding alone is about 30 kmh. I ride almost only flat roads as there are no hills around. And I don't participiate in races

-- and turn that into a well-reasoned recommendation for rim/spoke/hub choices.

Let the custom builder do their job, and give your brain a rest.

 

[catlike]

One of the best parts about going with a custom wheelbuilder is that you don't need to get confused about rim/spoke/hub choices. You don't even have to ask questions on internet forums about rim/spoke/hub choices. Because you're getting custom wheels built! It's your builder's job to take information you provide -- info such as
-- and turn that into a well-reasoned recommendation for rim/spoke/hub choices.

Let the custom builder do their job, and give your brain a rest.

The wheelbuilder where i am considering build wheels doesn't know nothink about Road wheels. He is building wheels for BMX, DH and some MTB. I give him service my curent wheels, he is doing fine job, but confessed that he does't have an idea what road rims/hubs should i consider. Maybe it sounds strange, but i want build them in willage i live in, i dont want to fly 100 miles to wheelbuilder if any problems.
Other wheelbuilder i know makes decent wheel and hub servicing (he is former road racer from 60-70-ies), but he is not familiar modern road wheels either.

 

[Sikhandar]

For your purposes, I would avoid fulcrum. Their hubs are really *ultimate* hubs (record-class for R3-R1-R0....), though changing, for instance, a nipple.....well it's a mess... the rim hasn't got any hole, you'll have to unmount the clincher and to remove the old nipple throughout the valve hole, insert an IRON screw inside the new nipple and, with a magnet, drive it inside its hole......

not to mention the substitution of the rim I had to change a Shamal front-rim... my mech hated me, the operation took 3 hours (and 40€ just for the work)

not to mention the geological eras that it takes to Campagnolo staff to send you the replacement parts.

...If I were you I'd create a pair of custom wheels! For instance last month I did: Velocity Escape (tub), Alpina spokes 2-1.5-2, FRM hubs 28x2 campagnolo freewheel, RED Halo nipples D)... with 300 euros I created a pair of really good wheels... Consider FRM hubs they're artisanal, cheap, easily serviceable, light... You can buy them directly on producer's site or (better) on shockbike

 

[alfeng]

I am about to get new wheelset, and consider to go with custom built, But i am totaly confused with those Rim/spoke/hub choices. It is very simple with factory buit's- buy Ksyr. Elites, or Zondas or Fulcrum3- they all promise to be 'universal" wheels.
About rider- I am total amateur, I am riding 4th year now and for 5th season of cycling i want to get something bit better than my curent wheels (Sora hubs, Alex DA16 rims, 36 spokes- i suppose they are basic as basic wheels can be). I weight 63-65kg (140-150 pounds), i am not powerful at all, my avg. speed riding alone is about 30 kmh. I ride almost only flat roads as there are no hills around. And I don't participiate in races: ))

The only think that is clear to me so far is that i don't need 36 spokes per wheel. I suppose 24F,28B or 28F,32B would be fine.

questions

1. Do i need low-20mm profile (good for hills(i dont have) and lighter riders(i am)) or high 30mm profile(good for flats (i ride) and powerful riders (i am not)) rims? Would i be able to feel the aero benefits of 30mm rims, or weight benefits of 20mm?

2. About hubs. The DT 240 are F...ing expensive, and frankly i am not sure if i want cartridge bearings. The DA7900 price sucks, 7800 is 10 spd only (i ride 8 spd). Maybe i could afford Record, but i can get 32H only, and curently i am riding Shimano.
What about Ultegra hubs? They are bit heavy, but are there other minuses compared to DA. The price diference is huge indeed.

For the kind of riding you are describing, there is probably nothing wrong with the wheels you have ...

While Shimano's Dura Ace & Ultegra hubs supposedly have better bearings + polished cups, the 105-and-below are pretty much the same EXCEPT for how carefully they are adjusted when the come out of the factory.

I will echo a suggestion you may have read elsewhere -- getting some lighter tubes + better tyres is a great way to improve your ride for a relatively small amount of money.

BTW. The DT 340 hubs are basically the DT 240 hub, but with a much heavier, steel freehub body ... the DT 340 weighs more than a DT 240, but it costs less. Both ROAD & MTB versions of the 340 are theoretically available, but the 340 MTB hubset seems to be more commonly available ... no doubt, this is because there is more concern with functionality in the MTB world whereas snob-appeal is often a factor amongst Roadies.

While 105 hubs are nice, Ultegra hubs are marginally nicer.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

For the kind of riding you are describing, there is probably nothing wrong with the wheels you have ...

While Shimano's Dura Ace & Ultegra hubs supposedly have better bearings + polished cups, the 105-and-below are pretty much the same EXCEPT for how carefully they are adjusted when the come out of the factory.

I will echo a suggestion you may have read elsewhere -- getting some lighter tubes + better tyres is a great way to improve your ride for a relatively small amount of money.

BTW. The DT 340 hubs are basically the DT 240 hub, but with a much heavier, steel freehub body ... the DT 340 weighs more than a DT 240, but it costs less. Both ROAD & MTB versions of the 340 are theoretically available, but the 340 MTB hubset seems to be more commonly available ... no doubt, this is because there is more concern with functionality in the MTB world whereas snob-appeal is often a factor amongst Roadies.

While 105 hubs are nice, Ultegra hubs are marginally nicer.

Should be mentioned that DT 340 hubs are twice the price of Ultegra, about the same as DA 7850. Ultegra and 105 hubs are well made, work well, inexpensive.

 

[alfeng]

Should be mentioned that DT 340 hubs are twice the price of Ultegra, about the same as DA 7850. Ultegra and 105 hubs are well made, work well, inexpensive.

Yes, while the DT 340 is less expensive than the DT 240, I guess it is still on the expensive side ...

The cost difference underscores what an exceptional value the Ultegra hub is ... but, as I said, I think that all the Shimano hubs are good as long as someone takes the time to adjust them ...

In that vein, FWIW, the less expensive Campagnolo hubs are a very good value, too ... but, they should be since the Veloce/Mirage are basically an older Record model without a grease port. The only (?) problem that I can discern with the less expensive Campagnolo hubs is their boat-anchor weight.

 

[thomas_cho]

Any significant difference between Ultegra and 105?

Are they just cosmetics? Or do the differences extend beyond skin deep ?

 

[531Aussie]

Should be mentioned that DT 340 hubs are twice the price of Ultegra, about the same as DA 7850. Ultegra and 105 hubs are well made, work well, inexpensive.

Excuse my 'iggorance', but are the new Ultegra and 105 hubs similar to the 9sp ones I've got? Like: balls and cones and same or similar dimensions?

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Yes, while the DT 340 is less expensive than the DT 240, I guess it is still on the expensive side ...

The cost difference underscores what an exceptional value the Ultegra hub is ... but, as I said, I think that all the Shimano hubs are good as long as someone takes the time to adjust them ...

In that vein, FWIW, the less expensive Campagnolo hubs are a very good value, too ... but, they should be since the Veloce/Mirage are basically an older Record model without a grease port. The only (?) problem that I can discern with the less expensive Campagnolo hubs is their boat-anchor weight.

Small points but Veloce/Mirage were the cart bearing, steel axled models. Record/Chorus/Centaur were the nice, oversized aluminum axled type that were made from 1999 thru 2006 but are no more(alas). Centaur hubs survived(same cart bearing as Veloce, steel axle) thru 2007 but are gone now as well.

32h Record is the only hub Campagnolo is offering and I think that's a huge mistake considering the general poor design and construction of so many wheelsouttaboxes out there now.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Excuse my 'iggorance', but are the new Ultegra and 105 hubs similar to the 9sp ones I've got? Like: balls and cones and same or similar dimensions?

Yes. Cup and cone, 1/4 inch balls in the rear, 3/16 in the front. Well made, polished cones, very nice. Add grease and adjust well and they will last a long time. Also they retain the freehub body bolted onto the hub body design, not the 'free floating' freehub body of 7800 series or 7900.

shimano makes some great hubs, well made, servicable, inexpensive. For a gent that has shimano/sram stuff, my first choice for wheelbuilding.