Another Take on Lance and Doping (Oh God..Here We Go Again)

[VeloFlash]

http://www.arpuerta.com/040917.html

Well, that was an interesting link - thanks VeloFlash.

"Athletes need no longer be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in doping cases-a near impossibility in many instances-but rather they must be proven guilty "to the comfortable satisfaction" of the panels hearing their cases."

So guilt by association is enough to be labled a doper and banned from competition? If so, then based on Flyers assertions, shouldn't the entire tour be banned from competing? Afterall, if everyone is already doping .....?

I'm sure not comfortable with eliminating the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement.

The tour is so political already, if accusations are enough w/out proof to be banned, it could go to hell in a handbasket.

At least our legal system still assumes innocence until proven guilty. Otherwise I'd be called a steroid abuser because I work out in a gym with muscle men.

The purpose of the reference to the page was to highlight succinctly the points Flyer has been making for some time in his inimitable, usually evasive, style.

At the date of issuing that opinion USADA had expressed the view from the findings on the BRALCO case that other evidence not enshrined in the anti-doping rules should be considered to bring sanctions against an athlete. The case in particular was Marion Jones where there was strong circumstantial and direct evidence she was involved in doping. However, Jones has stood her legal ground and it would appear that USADA have backed off in implementing that policy.

The author's view was in line with the currency of thought at the time.

 

[Flyer]

lumpy:

Remember, 90% of the illegal drugs cannot be detected (eg: human and horse Growth Hormone, testosterone/clomid/hCH, insulin, ThG was pre-BALCO, their are other designers, then all the research drugs, blood transfusions, and most EPO and EPO-like drugs.

So, that is why most dopers are caught by housekeepers (AIS Juniors), or airport customs police, (Sean Eadie Australian Sprinter), or Paris Police, (David Millar, Cofidis), or border patrols, (Raimundas Rumsas & Zulle, Virenque, herve, Brochard, et al....

Innocent until proven guilty is meaningless when referring to elite international cyclists.

But, it's cool, because fans can exempt anyone they prefer: That cute little Tyler Hamilton with his boyish charm or that hard-working Lance Armstrong with his noble cancer charity.

They can be declared clean and good.

Also the AIS can be declared a fountain of good works despite its many members enrolled in 'anger-management classes' pusuant to drug suspensions metted out.

Declaring an athlete or institution clean is easy. Just say so---and if people want to believe it---presto.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world it's;

Tous Dope!

http://www.arpuerta.com/040917.html

Well, that was an interesting link - thanks VeloFlash.

"Athletes need no longer be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in doping cases-a near impossibility in many instances-but rather they must be proven guilty "to the comfortable satisfaction" of the panels hearing their cases."

So guilt by association is enough to be labled a doper and banned from competition? If so, then based on Flyers assertions, shouldn't the entire tour be banned from competing? Afterall, if everyone is already doping .....?

I'm sure not comfortable with eliminating the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement.

The tour is so political already, if accusations are enough w/out proof to be banned, it could go to hell in a handbasket.

At least our legal system still assumes innocence until proven guilty. Otherwise I'd be called a steroid abuser because I work out in a gym with muscle men.

 

[Flyer]

You may be amazed to know (not a jealous lie) that Marion Jones first ran into doping compliance problems before she was Mark French's age. Mark was caught with horse Growth Hormones in his AIS dorm room in December 2003---just 7 months prior to the Athens Olympics. He was 18.

Jones blew off a mandatory urine test prior to High School Nationals. She was automaticly suspended by her federation. She was only 17 years old.

Marion called on then husband of her cousin (now divorced) Johnnie Cochran.

That's right the same ****** who freed OJ Simpson--yet another steroid abuser and double musrder.

However, Marion's case was a few year before the OJ Simpson murders---but Johnnie's defense stategy was IDENTICAL to OJ's.

Discrimination of a black women (girl).

The federation blinked--Johnnie won--Marion's supension was lifted.

She went on to Olympic fame--then infamy when her coach and ex-husband ratted her out. Then her BALCO drug dealer ratted her out on ABC television showing her doping charts (EPO, hGH, Insulin, testosterone clear, stimulants, THG, the cream etc....)

Marion is a perfect example of what might be going on at all Olymoic Training facilities--worldwide.

Especially the ones with athletes winning medals.

Great example.

Now more on local talent.

The purpose of the reference to the page was to highlight succinctly the points Flyer has been making for some time in his inimitable, usually evasive, style.

At the date of issuing that opinion USADA had expressed the view from the findings on the BRALCO case that other evidence not enshrined in the anti-doping rules should be considered to bring sanctions against an athlete. The case in particular was Marion Jones where there was strong circumstantial and direct evidence she was involved in doping. However, Jones has stood her legal ground and it would appear that USADA have backed off in implementing that policy.

The author's view was in line with the currency of thought at the time.

 

[VeloFlash]

....<snip>
Also the AIS can be declared a fountain of good works despite its many members enrolled in 'anger-management classes' pusuant to drug suspensions metted out.

Declaring an athlete or institution clean is easy. Just say so---and if people want to believe it---presto....<snip>

Flyer, both on forum and off forum you have disclosed "facts" that are represented as being incriminating to the AIS as being involved in institutionalised doping.

When asked to provide reference links to those facts you enter into your religious zealot like chants on doping in general as a diversion to avoid the admission that no such links, and therefore no "facts", exist. In reality you have tampered with the truth and manufactured the facts to suit your argument.

In 25 years no athlete in the 85 sports within the AIS who has been caught in breach of their anti doping contract with the AIS (harsher than WADA standard) has pointed the finger at the AIS as being complicit.

Your raving opinions are worth zilch if the facts you are drawing your opinions on cannot be corroborated when requested.

 

[Flyer]

Warning:

VeloFlash is engaged in a coverup.

For those interested in the brutal and embarassing news re: AIS (Australian Institute of Sport), its federal funding (white elephant pressures) and doping scandal, assault and battery agaisnt it's National Cycling Coach, it's horse hormones and 200 medical items discovered in an AIS dorm room of a 4-time world champion all you need do is:

read the newspapers. (lots of them from June 2004 until today)

especially the Sydney Morning Herald or the PM radio transcripts from ABC affiliates.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2004/s1169900.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s275463.htm

4-Time Junior World Champion & horse hormones:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jun04/jun19news2

or last week's (attempted murder, strangulation and more horse hormone rage)

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8203.0.html

There is lots more to this story.

Check it out for yourselves.

 

[lumpy]

lumpy:

Remember, 90% of the illegal drugs cannot be detected (eg: human and horse Growth Hormone, testosterone/clomid/hCH, insulin, ThG was pre-BALCO, their are other designers, then all the research drugs, blood transfusions, and most EPO and EPO-like drugs.

Innocent until proven guilty is meaningless when referring to elite international cyclists.

Not entirely true. The tests for steroids are pretty accurate.
Here are the detection times for most of them:
http://www.steroid.com/detect.php

Usually the testosterone to estrogen ratio is checked for additional testosterone. Too much and you're out.

Clomid is a testosterone stimulant as is HCG and Nolvadex. Again, if the athelete's test to estrogen ratio is out of balance, it's easily detected.

Growth Hormone is also easily tested for much like testosterone levels - too much and you're out.

EPO is also easily tested for in atheletes as is blood doping - adding ones own blood to increase the red blood cell count. It measures the recombinant EPO (EPO from a source outside the body) levels in urine.

The assumption that all riders are doping has a problem because, unless I'm mistaken, most are passing the drug tests.

I still fail to see why top level cyclists must be assumed guilty of doping.

 

[lumpy]

or last week's (attempted murder, strangulation and more horse hormone rage)

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8203.0.html

There is lots more to this story.

Check it out for yourselves.

read the article you cite - he has an alcohol problem! Murder? Strangulation? Roid rage? Where is that in this article?

"He admitted to Adelaide's The Advertiser newspaper on Tuesday that alcohol has been a problem since his axing. However, for the last three weeks, he has relied on prescribed anti-depressants and valium to cope with his issues.

"I've had some mental trauma. The booze has been a way out for me," he told The Advertiser. "I need help. I definitely need help. I can't just keep getting on the booze. I've got to straighten my life out."
"Reportedly the assault on Barras stemmed from a sequence of events that started with Dajka's decision to join a group of cyclists on a excursion to Australian rules football game. The group borrowed - and subsequently damaged - an AIS van the Sunday prior to his meeting with Barras.

According to an AIS investigation, the van was released on the condition that one member of the group would serve as a designated driver, but not Dajka as he lost his license last October for nine months and was fined $700 for speeding and drunk driving in Adelaide in December, the year before.

The AIS van was to have been used by the group as transport to and from AAMI Stadium in Adelaide where they watched Essendon play the Crows. However, the van was later returned with a dent, triggering an investigation by AIS officials.

Dajka told Adelaide's Sunday Mail that the group began drinking at the game, adding that the designated driver did not wish to get behind the wheel.

It is believed that the decision prompted someone else in the group to drive the van back to Dajka's home where the riders all continued drinking. Dajka then became involved in "a tussle" with another rider that led to his television and window being broken.

Dajka said that the confrontation started when he teased the young sprinter about being Mark French's friend.

"I gave him a bit of s__t but that's basically what I have been brought up with - it's part of the culture," Dajka said. "When a junior comes in, he cops it until before breaking point. I got that from Sean [Eadie] and the older guys when I came through."

"We got back to my place, bantered and everybody was in on it," Dajka continued. "He cracked and put his fist through my TV. I reacted to that by grabbing him by the throat and giving him a tap on the chin. He reacted by giving me one on the chin.

"Shane Kelly, Jason Niblett and Joel Leonard basically stood there and just let it happen. We both calmed down, but then he put his fist through my window."

Dajka spoke of a culture of "sledging" and claimed that Barras encouraged it, but he was nonetheless summoned for a meeting with his coach last Wednesday to discuss his "behavior and attitude" over the previous five months.

Dajka admitted that he became enraged when told that he was to be suspended for three months.

"I just snapped," he said. "I basically grabbed him by the throat and pushed him towards the white board. I went away, came back, and he said a couple of things to me and I basically pushed him over."

Sounds like a booze fueled row. Not as you portray it.

 

[Flyer]

Untrue---back to presumption of guilt.

Testosterone is not tesed per se.

Rather it is a T/E ratio urine test that is performed.

a 6 to 1 is legal (was in 2004)

UCI was not WADA compliant until August and the ration was 6 to 1.

For 2005 the ration is supposed to be 4 to 1.

Whatever, normal is 2.5 to 1 for a male.

If you want a 10 time dosage you will need to add female fertility hormones to stimuate both the T---but also bring up the E (epitestosterone) and get the ration within the testing limit. (albeit still out of bounds, but legally so)

Growth Hormones (no test exists)

Some bluffing---but no WADA test exists as of today.

CERA and dynEPO is undetectable.

HBOCs---is a mystery.

blood transfusions are not detectable (with your own blood)

read about the AIS scandal---that ought to intrigue further lumpy.

Ciao.

Not entirely true. The tests for steroids are pretty accurate.
Here are the detection times for most of them:
http://www.steroid.com/detect.php

Usually the testosterone to estrogen ratio is checked for additional testosterone. Too much and you're out.

Clomid is a testosterone stimulant as is HCG and Nolvadex. Again, if the athelete's test to estrogen ratio is out of balance, it's easily detected.

Growth Hormone is also easily tested for much like testosterone levels - too much and you're out.

EPO is also easily tested for in atheletes as is blood doping - adding ones own blood to increase the red blood cell count. It measures the recombinant EPO (EPO from a source outside the body) levels in urine.

The assumption that all riders are doping has a problem because, unless I'm mistaken, most are passing the drug tests.

I still fail to see why top level cyclists must be assumed guilty of doping.

 

[Flyer]

lumpy: You are not serious. Read on.

1) Jobie Dajka is a top Australian sprinter. He is only 24 years old and he has been a key person for their team.

2) He was scheduled for the 2004 Olypic Games. His DNA turned up on 9 syringes for EquiGen in Mark French's dorm room in december 2003.

3) The cover-up is 18 months old and still ongoing due to Jobie's steroid rage against his coach--due to their hanging him out to dry when everyone else is allowed to compete.

4) Only Mark French & Jobie are in trouble when there are at least five (5) others.

5) Alcholol is not the drugs we are referring to. Horse hormones, stimulants and testicomp. Lord know what other drugs are there too.

6) Sean Perkind failed his urine test for stimulants at the 2004 Junior Worlds after winning Gold.

That is yet another doped athlete.

Alchol is legal. The horse hormones and stimulants are illegal.

Please show some class do your research.

Do not make me educate you on the ways of the world.

read the article you cite - he has an alcohol problem! Murder? Strangulation? Roid rage? Where is that in this article?

"He admitted to Adelaide's The Advertiser newspaper on Tuesday that alcohol has been a problem since his axing. However, for the last three weeks, he has relied on prescribed anti-depressants and valium to cope with his issues.

"I've had some mental trauma. The booze has been a way out for me," he told The Advertiser. "I need help. I definitely need help. I can't just keep getting on the booze. I've got to straighten my life out."
"Reportedly the assault on Barras stemmed from a sequence of events that started with Dajka's decision to join a group of cyclists on a excursion to Australian rules football game. The group borrowed - and subsequently damaged - an AIS van the Sunday prior to his meeting with Barras.

According to an AIS investigation, the van was released on the condition that one member of the group would serve as a designated driver, but not Dajka as he lost his license last October for nine months and was fined $700 for speeding and drunk driving in Adelaide in December, the year before.

The AIS van was to have been used by the group as transport to and from AAMI Stadium in Adelaide where they watched Essendon play the Crows. However, the van was later returned with a dent, triggering an investigation by AIS officials.

Dajka told Adelaide's Sunday Mail that the group began drinking at the game, adding that the designated driver did not wish to get behind the wheel.

It is believed that the decision prompted someone else in the group to drive the van back to Dajka's home where the riders all continued drinking. Dajka then became involved in "a tussle" with another rider that led to his television and window being broken.

Dajka said that the confrontation started when he teased the young sprinter about being Mark French's friend.

"I gave him a bit of s__t but that's basically what I have been brought up with - it's part of the culture," Dajka said. "When a junior comes in, he cops it until before breaking point. I got that from Sean [Eadie] and the older guys when I came through."

"We got back to my place, bantered and everybody was in on it," Dajka continued. "He cracked and put his fist through my TV. I reacted to that by grabbing him by the throat and giving him a tap on the chin. He reacted by giving me one on the chin.

"Shane Kelly, Jason Niblett and Joel Leonard basically stood there and just let it happen. We both calmed down, but then he put his fist through my window."

Dajka spoke of a culture of "sledging" and claimed that Barras encouraged it, but he was nonetheless summoned for a meeting with his coach last Wednesday to discuss his "behavior and attitude" over the previous five months.

Dajka admitted that he became enraged when told that he was to be suspended for three months.

"I just snapped," he said. "I basically grabbed him by the throat and pushed him towards the white board. I went away, came back, and he said a couple of things to me and I basically pushed him over."

Sounds like a booze fueled row. Not as you portray it.

 

[VeloFlash]

Warning:

VeloFlash is engaged in a coverup.

For those interested in the brutal and embarassing news re: AIS (Australian Institute of Sport), its federal funding (white elephant pressures) and doping scandal, assault and battery agaisnt it's National Cycling Coach, it's horse hormones and 200 medical items discovered in an AIS dorm room of a 4-time world champion all you need do is:

read the newspapers. (lots of them from June 2004 until today)

especially the Sydney Morning Herald or the PM radio transcripts from ABC affiliates.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2004/s1169900.htm

Selective Flyer. DNA tests on the syringes were carried out. Dajka's DNA was found and that is why he was sent home from the Olympics for lying about involvement. AIS was never implicated even by Mark French who was promised leniency if he disclosed all.

You even, LOL, exposed your own fraud of withholding relevant facts in your latest posting where you said:

2) He (Dajka) was scheduled for the 2004 Olypic Games. His DNA turned up on 9 syringes for EquiGen in Mark French's dorm room in december 2003.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s275463.htm

The Touretski (Russian coach to Alexandre Popov) steroid problem you refer to occurred about 2001 when Touretski's safe was stolen from his house. When police recovered the safe they found steroids inside. Touretski was immediately suspended and all AIS athletes under his influence were immediately tested for the particular steroid (old fashioned easily detectable Stanozolol) by ASDA. No positives were returned. The criminal case against Touretski failed through lack of evidence.

Again you are being selective about concerns that were quite rightly raised at that time and fail to provide details of the outcome down the track. AIS were never implicated.

4-Time Junior World Champion & horse hormones:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jun04/jun19news2

And what was the outcome, Flyer, of Mark French's claims? He implicated riders as being involved in the "shooting gallery" who were, at the time, riding in Europe. In a tribunal or court any person being caught out lying does not become a witness of the truth and no or less weight is placed on their evidence. The tribunal found him an unreliable witness. And no time whatsoever did he implicate the AIS.

or last week's (attempted murder, strangulation and more horse hormone rage)

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8203.0.html

I see lumpy has exposed your over use of poetic licence in your interpretation.

Again, Flyer, I ask you to show us links to reports where at the conclusion of any enquiry or such like the AIS was implicated in the doping of athletes who were in breach of doping rules.

Making reference to interviews conducted at the initial breaking of news when the facts are foggy and speculation is rife is not evidence. Likewise putting your alternative spin on an athlete with an alcohol problem.

 

[lumpy]

Flyer,
I fail to see why you have your panties in such a wad over this. So what if top level cyclists dope. What about bodybuilders? Are you equally fervent with them?
Why do you care so much that it's all you post about? Why shouldn't people have the right to improve their performance? Isn't that the name of the game? Isn't that drive to be better what drove our evolutionary ascent?

What's the difference between cosmetic surgery and doing steroids to build muscle? They both are body modifications.

I have coffee in the morning - so am I a doper?

 

[Flyer]

btw: lots more news reports on the AIS scandal.
You can locate them on your own or wait for me to provide more ugly links.

Then you may connect the dots---or not.

I don't think you want to---nor do you want more damning evidence.

Insfar as athletes using PEDs (not alcohol or marijuana) That's interesting. My beef is that
children do not have any 'power' or judgment in matters of doping. (juniors under age 18)

They are forced to dope or sent home.

Adults dope the children when they come to camp---else they are cut.

That is how it works. In all countries.

The rest of it is public denials and propaganda.

VeloFlash is as big a hypocrite as you'll find on these posts. He pretends to be a anti-doper on the eropean peloton---but denies Australian doping (not in my backyard)

He has no credibility whatsoever. Lots of people in your Parliament are wary of AIS as are former Olympic athletes.

Stay tuned, more doping news links referred to you tomorrow.

Keep your panties up.

Flyer,
I fail to see why you have your panties in such a wad over this. So what if top level cyclists dope. What about bodybuilders? Are you equally fervent with them?
Why do you care so much that it's all you post about? Why shouldn't people have the right to improve their performance? Isn't that the name of the game? Isn't that drive to be better what drove our evolutionary ascent?

What's the difference between cosmetic surgery and doing steroids to build muscle? They both are body modifications.

I have coffee in the morning - so am I a doper?

 

[Flyer]

lumpy:

You seem to suggest that is the 'alcohol drug' which fueled Dajka's rage.

Not steroids?

Does it follow that his world class 200 meter sprint times are produced by his alcohol abuse?

Silly me, I thought PEDs might have helped in the weight room.

I guess at AIS, it's a double Vodka Martini before sets of bench press, squats and leg lifts.

Thanks for setting me straight.

I don't know why those crazy horse hormones came in?

Go figure.

read the article you cite - he has an alcohol problem! Murder? Strangulation? Roid rage? Where is that in this article?

"He admitted to Adelaide's The Advertiser newspaper on Tuesday that alcohol has been a problem since his axing. However, for the last three weeks, he has relied on prescribed anti-depressants and valium to cope with his issues.

"I've had some mental trauma. The booze has been a way out for me," he told The Advertiser. "I need help. I definitely need help. I can't just keep getting on the booze. I've got to straighten my life out."
"Reportedly the assault on Barras stemmed from a sequence of events that started with Dajka's decision to join a group of cyclists on a excursion to Australian rules football game. The group borrowed - and subsequently damaged - an AIS van the Sunday prior to his meeting with Barras.

According to an AIS investigation, the van was released on the condition that one member of the group would serve as a designated driver, but not Dajka as he lost his license last October for nine months and was fined $700 for speeding and drunk driving in Adelaide in December, the year before.

The AIS van was to have been used by the group as transport to and from AAMI Stadium in Adelaide where they watched Essendon play the Crows. However, the van was later returned with a dent, triggering an investigation by AIS officials.

Dajka told Adelaide's Sunday Mail that the group began drinking at the game, adding that the designated driver did not wish to get behind the wheel.

It is believed that the decision prompted someone else in the group to drive the van back to Dajka's home where the riders all continued drinking. Dajka then became involved in "a tussle" with another rider that led to his television and window being broken.

Dajka said that the confrontation started when he teased the young sprinter about being Mark French's friend.

"I gave him a bit of s__t but that's basically what I have been brought up with - it's part of the culture," Dajka said. "When a junior comes in, he cops it until before breaking point. I got that from Sean [Eadie] and the older guys when I came through."

"We got back to my place, bantered and everybody was in on it," Dajka continued. "He cracked and put his fist through my TV. I reacted to that by grabbing him by the throat and giving him a tap on the chin. He reacted by giving me one on the chin.

"Shane Kelly, Jason Niblett and Joel Leonard basically stood there and just let it happen. We both calmed down, but then he put his fist through my window."

Dajka spoke of a culture of "sledging" and claimed that Barras encouraged it, but he was nonetheless summoned for a meeting with his coach last Wednesday to discuss his "behavior and attitude" over the previous five months.

Dajka admitted that he became enraged when told that he was to be suspended for three months.

"I just snapped," he said. "I basically grabbed him by the throat and pushed him towards the white board. I went away, came back, and he said a couple of things to me and I basically pushed him over."

Sounds like a booze fueled row. Not as you portray it.

 

[Flyer]

If you drink more than 10 cups of coffee you are a doper per WADA.

But why bother with caffeine when so many other drugs are undetecable?

Are you a novice doper wannabe?

Flyer,
I fail to see why you have your panties in such a wad over this. So what if top level cyclists dope. What about bodybuilders? Are you equally fervent with them?
Why do you care so much that it's all you post about? Why shouldn't people have the right to improve their performance? Isn't that the name of the game? Isn't that drive to be better what drove our evolutionary ascent?

What's the difference between cosmetic surgery and doing steroids to build muscle? They both are body modifications.

I have coffee in the morning - so am I a doper?

 

[VeloFlash]

btw: lots more news reports on the AIS scandal.
You can locate them on your own or wait for me to provide more ugly links.

Please provide me with the links. I have been asking for weeks. If your last effort was your best shot then any further lesser references would be a waste of time following.

Then you may connect the dots---or not.

I don't think you want to---nor do you want more damning evidence.

Have not seen any evidence whatsoever to date provided by yourself or from any other source. So how can it be damning?

Insfar as athletes using PEDs (not alcohol or marijuana) That's interesting. My beef is that children do not have any 'power' or judgment in matters of doping. (juniors under age 18)

They are forced to dope or sent home.

Adults dope the children when they come to camp---else they are cut.

That is how it works. In all countries.

The rest of it is public denials and propaganda.

For the convenience of your own argument your view is that parents of children under 18 are responsible for illegal drugs taken by their children except MJ and alcohol. So a "child" under 18 on coke, PED's, ecstacy, speed, heroin, sniffing glue or petrol, etc is on that substance with the knowledge and consent of their parents? You had better check surveys on the incidence of young school kids taking hard drugs. Better still get out from behind your PC and smell the roses.

VeloFlash is as big a hypocrite as you'll find on these posts. He pretends to be a anti-doper on the eropean peloton---but denies Australian doping (not in my backyard)

Never in my near 500 posts have I defended Australians for drug taking or indicated that Australians are squeaky clean. Show us any post where I have made that statement or even implied. Doping is not restricted by borders.

My beef with you is that I have clearly stated that there is no evidence that the AIS is involved in institutionalised doping, as you claim.

He has no credibility whatsoever. Lots of people in your Parliament are wary of AIS as are former Olympic athletes.

Stay tuned, more doping news links referred to you tomorrow.

Lots of "green" and left leaning socialist parliamentarians would love to see the AIS closed down and resources diverted elsewhere. Is that what you mean by "wary"? If not, provide full references.

However, even with parliamentary privilege there has not been one issue raised in parliament in 25 years that even remotely accused the AIS of institutionalised doping. If it had and had been proven, the AIS taxpayer funding would have been terminated.

But who are these former Olympic athletes?

Keep your panties up.

When you are on, Flyer, I take additional precautions and wear my chastity belt!!

 

[Flyer]

btw: CAS arbitator Steve Holmes smells a rat.
So too does former Olympian Forbes Carlisle
So too does Senator Faulkner
So too do other members of Parliament
So too do I.

Lots of finger pointing and lots of horse hormones too.

Here are a few more embarrassing news links associating doping with:
1) winning
2) AIS scholarship athletes
3) AIS alumni
4) professionals who frequent AIS property (velodromes and weight rooms)


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/18/1087245114357.htm

or the Daily Times

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-6-2004_pg2_16

or happier times between strangle victim coach and his star sprinter (pre assault) Nice times they were.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/track/2003/worldcup03/sydney03/

see Martin Barras interview (It's telling in retrospect)

All happy-go-lucky, then those damned horse drugs turned up and the DNA caught out the lies. Now the denial starts. The rest is just PR spin.

 

[VeloFlash]

Flyer, I am starting to think you are a brick short of a load.

You are just recycling, regurgitating and providing links that either don't work or are irrelevant to the argument.

The previous links you provided were transcripts of radio interviews that occurred when news broke and, as pointed out to you, once the fog had lifted and investigations undertaken the outcome was entirely different. But you keep beating your head against the wall in ignorance of the facts.

There is no evidence that Holmes, Carlisle, Faulkner or any member of parliament have any suspicions that the AIS is involved in institutionalised doping or doping at any level. The only suspicious person is one Flyer and the reasons for this are becoming apparent.

Last week the AIS announced that it will be releasing for sale under licence a micro-technological device that was developed by AIS boffins and secretly used up to Athens 2004 and assisted with the success of athletes in three sports - rowing, swimming and cycling.

I suppose, Flyer, your spin on this device is will be that it was a cover up for AIS institutionalised doping.

 

[Flyer]

High praise from a doping apologist, eh?

You sit in some fine company. Will Eprex abuser David Millar be over for dinner this evening? How about your pal ***** Voet, is he flying in too?

Be sure to introduce ***** to your so-called 'clean friends' and maybe you can get wrecked on Dajka love juice. (horse hormone juice and/or booze)

I may be a brick or two short of a full load, but I do own a loaded truck and can reason and think lucidly.

You are both blind and deaf to serious fraud. Take six Testicomp, a stimulant, two horse hormones (EquiGen) then try and strangle me too.

Tous Dope!

Flyer, I am starting to think you are a brick short of a load.

You are just recycling, regurgitating and providing links that either don't work or are irrelevant to the argument.

The previous links you provided were transcripts of radio interviews that occurred when news broke and, as pointed out to you, once the fog had lifted and investigations undertaken the outcome was entirely different. But you keep beating your head against the wall in ignorance of the facts.

There is no evidence that Holmes, Carlisle, Faulkner or any member of parliament have any suspicions that the AIS is involved in institutionalised doping or doping at any level. The only suspicious person is one Flyer and the reasons for this are becoming apparent.

Last week the AIS announced that it will be releasing for sale under licence a micro-technological device that was developed by AIS boffins and secretly used up to Athens 2004 and assisted with the success of athletes in three sports - rowing, swimming and cycling.

I suppose, Flyer, your spin on this device is will be that it was a cover up for AIS institutionalised doping.

 

[VeloFlash]

Flyer, as always you never respond to any request for a direct answer.

You had me puzzled about the "former Olympian" who is suspicious of the AIS.

Now I am rolling on the floor laughing.

It is Forbes Carlisle, isn't it? You have sprung on the reference in the ABC radio interview undertaken of the day of release of information that steroids were found in the Russian swimming coach's stolen personal safe. He was introduced as "Forbes Carlisle, former Olympic swimmer and coach, has led the campaign against doping in the sport of swimming."

I will provide some quotes about Forbes Carlisle in a 1998 article by the British paper "The Times":

http://www.times-olympics.co.uk/archive/newsdrug2.html

"Not everyone is impressed by the latest swoop. "It's an expensive stunt," said Forbes Carlisle, possibly the liveliest octogenarian on the planet. He was mentor to the Munich triple Olympic champion Shane Gould and generations of other Australian champions, and has long made the war on drugs in sport a personal crusade."

In 1998, that is 7 years ago, Carlisle was an octogenarian. He would no doubt be over 90 today.

Carlisle broke new ground in swimming as a coach and scientist and coached in the 1950's to 70's era. Well before the AIS was established. I was unaware he was an Olympian but, if so, it would be pre WW11.

Flyer, you are indeed desperate. ROTFLMAO

 

[Flyer]

You are the master of deceptive my not so clever friend.

Before my educational posts re: AIS and it horse hormoned alumni, you subscribed to numerous false beleifs:

1) You thought that (4-time World Champ) Mark French was not associated with AIS and lived above a saloon--off AIS campus.

2) No horse hormones where discovered in his room

3) that over 200 medical items were truned over to a lab----although the chain of custody was broken. Maybe there was more evidence?

4) Jobie Dajka was 'not' coached by Mssr. Barras

5) Jobie Dajka has a alcohol roid rage---and not a horse hormone steroid rage issue.

6) That Sean Eadie never seems to associate with these fellows, despite his need for illegal drugs at airports. (San Diego sourced oral meds)

7) That age 17 Shane Perkins failing a dope test at Worlds in no way reflects upon, AIS, Mark French, Jobie Dajka & Sean Eadie despite the many hours they spent together in the weight room and on velodromes.

8) That many folks have pointed fingers at the AIS, not one or two.

9) That only commercial for profit entities have corruption and deception. Never public funded works, NOT EVER.


Well, now you have been elightened and a great burden of supreme lack of awareness has now been lifted from you.

You are now free to search out doping in your own back yard--as there appears plenty to keep you busy.

Might want to find some EquiGen just to be certain why the elite sprinters seem to like it so?

I'll bet Forbes Carlisle has more horse sense than you do. (yet more reason to get ahold of some EquiGen)

Flyer, as always you never respond to any request for a direct answer.

You had me puzzled about the "former Olympian" who is suspicious of the AIS.

Now I am rolling on the floor laughing.

It is Forbes Carlisle, isn't it? You have sprung on the reference in the ABC radio interview undertaken of the day of release of information that steroids were found in the Russian swimming coach's stolen personal safe. He was introduced as "Forbes Carlisle, former Olympic swimmer and coach, has led the campaign against doping in the sport of swimming."

I will provide some quotes about Forbes Carlisle in a 1998 article by the British paper "The Times":

http://www.times-olympics.co.uk/archive/newsdrug2.html

"Not everyone is impressed by the latest swoop. "It's an expensive stunt," said Forbes Carlisle, possibly the liveliest octogenarian on the planet. He was mentor to the Munich triple Olympic champion Shane Gould and generations of other Australian champions, and has long made the war on drugs in sport a personal crusade."

In 1998, that is 7 years ago, Carlisle was an octogenarian. He would no doubt be over 90 today.

Carlisle broke new ground in swimming as a coach and scientist and coached in the 1950's to 70's era. Well before the AIS was established. I was unaware he was an Olympian but, if so, it would be pre WW11.

Flyer, you are indeed desperate. ROTFLMAO