Any helmet laws successfully overturned?

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> brightened my day with his incisive wit when in
> news[email protected] he conjectured that:
>
> > On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:09:20 -0700, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>How many childrens lives would be saved if all speed limits were lowered by 10 mph?
> >
> > Accident rates would go up, not down.
> >
> > Jasper
> >
>
> I'm sober, and still don't get that. Is it some play on how rates are expressed mathematically?

No, it's because you'll see a greater spread of speeds on the road. Some will drive the new, lower
speed, and others will continue to blast along at the road's safe speed. Studies have shown that
widely different speeds on the road are much more dangerous than when everyone is going a single,
faster speed.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

> >
> >I think the word you are looking for is "****ardly." Well, maybe not, as that word means
> >"Ungenerously or pettily reluctant to spend money." So, what word WERE you trying to use there?
>
> He meant "bigger". Look at the "B" and the "N" on your keyboard, and hang up on your SPLC lawyer.
> It's a damn typo.
>
> Nice try, though.

There was no "try." I was trying to figure out the sentence and since I assume he isn't someone
whose native tongue is English, I was trying to figure out what he was saying. What on earth were
YOU thinking about? Hmm???

Pat

 

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:59:52 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>There was no "try." I was trying to figure out the sentence and since I assume he isn't someone
>whose native tongue is English, I was trying to figure out what he was saying. What on earth were
>YOU thinking about? Hmm???

"Do or no do. There is no 'try'" -- Yoda

I mistook you for someone who was looking really hard for something to be offended about.

And pinheads don't think.

Are you humming because you don't know the lyrics?

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

> >There was no "try." I was trying to figure out the sentence and since I assume he isn't someone
> >whose native tongue is English, I was trying to figure out what he was saying. What on earth were
> >YOU thinking about? Hmm???

Pat

>
> "Do or no do. There is no 'try'" -- Yoda
>
> I mistook you for someone who was looking really hard for something to be offended about.
>
> And pinheads don't think.
>
> Are you humming because you don't know the lyrics?

No, wondering why you would attack me with no reason.

Pat

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:02:17 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I think the word you are looking for is "****ardly." Well, maybe not, as that word means
>"Ungenerously or pettily reluctant to spend money." So, what word WERE you trying to use there?

Yeah, sorry about that. Two uncorrected typos in three lines is way over my quota. Anyway, I meant
'bigger', as the other guy correctly inferred.

Jasper

 

[Jpfler]

> [email protected] (Michael Malak) wrote:

>I'm considering embarking upon a campaign to overturn bicycle helmet laws in my area

>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137 lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 *
>(2/3) = 137

And one of those saved kids might be yours.

Jim

 

[Zippy The Pinhe]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:18:37 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>No, wondering why you would attack me with no reason.

Grasshopper, if I attack you, you will know you've been attacked.

Have any helmet laws successfully been overturned?

Ommmmmmmmmm......

 

[Bernie]

zeldabee wrote:

> [email protected] (blech) wrote:
> > [email protected] (Michael Malak) wrote...
> > > I'm considering embarking upon a campaign to overturn bicycle helmet laws in my area. <snip>
> >
> > You should focus your attention on all the strange aircraft noise in the DC area.
>
> Yes indeed! The helmet makes a good substratum for the tinfoil.
>
> --
> z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m http://NewsReader.Com/ Honest, never intended to contribute to
> a helmet-flame thread...

That's positively brilliant! One could make a tinfoil sombrero if it had a styrofoam substrate!
Bernie "Always wear your seatbelt - it makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car"

 

[Pete]

"Zippy the Pinhead" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 11:18:37 -0500, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >No, wondering why you would attack me with no reason.
>
> Grasshopper, if I attack you, you will know you've been attacked.
>
> Have any helmet laws successfully been overturned?
>
> Ommmmmmmmmm......

I found this obscure reference: Gilbert, Arizona
http://www.mormonstoday.com/010921/T2DPetersen01.shtml

Pete

 

[John Bartley K7]

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:

>>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137 lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 *
>>(2/3) = 137 http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
>
>This is a phony argument. For every bicycle head injury that results in death there are about a
>thousand head injuries which result in various other problems including permanent disabilities. Do
>a google search on bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to
>get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.

Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain scans to prove small
head trauma can have drastic impact on skils, abilities and temprament.

--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston,
THE COBRA EVENT.

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:16:25 GMT, 6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126))
from wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:17 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:
>
>>>If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137 lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 *
>>>(2/3) = 137 http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
>>
>>This is a phony argument. For every bicycle head injury that results in death there are about a
>>thousand head injuries which result in various other problems including permanent disabilities. Do
>>a google search on bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits to
>>get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>
>Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain scans to prove small
>head trauma can have drastic impact on skils, abilities and temprament.

Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should all wear foam hats all the
time. But what's that? People who bicycle are more likely to get head injuries than those who don't?
Ahh, now it's a different subject. Prove
it.

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I fill MY industrial waste containers
with old copies of the "WATCHTOWER" and then add HAWAIIAN PUNCH to the top ... They look NICE in
the yard ...
2:23:19 PM 30 June 2003

 

[Zeldabee]

6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> [email protected] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:
>
> >Do a google search on bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000 hits
> >to get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>
> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain scans to prove small
> head trauma can have drastic impact on skils, abilities and temprament.

...And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m http://NewsReader.Com/

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:46:26 GMT, Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Accident rates would go up, not down.

>>I'm sober, and still don't get that. Is it some play on how rates are expressed mathematically?

>No, it just happens

Mostly it hapens the other way, which suggests that on the occasions where it doesn't, other factors
may well be responsible.

Effects of changing speed limits:

Decreases
---------
Nilsson (1990) Sweden 110 km/h to 90 km/h (68 mi/h to 56 mi/h) Speeds declined by 14 km/h Fatal
crashes declined by 21%

Engel (1990) Denmark 60 km/h to 50 km/h (37 mi/h to 31 mi/h) Fatal crashes declined by 24% Injury
crashes declined by 9%

Peltola (1991) UK 100 km/h to 80 km/h (62 mi/h to 50 mi/h) Speeds declined by 4 km/h Crashes
declined by 14%

Sliogeris (1992) Australia 110 km/h to 100 km/h (68 mi/h to 62 mi/h) Injury crashes declined by 19%

Finch et al. (1994) Switzerland 130 km/h to 120 km/h (81 mi/h to 75
mi/h) Speeds declined by 5 km/h Fatal crashes declined by 12%

Scharping (1994) Germany 60 km/h to 50 km/h (37 mi/h to 31 mi/h) Crashes declined by 20%

Newstead and Mullan (1996) Australia 5-20 km/h decreases (3-12 mi/h decreases) No significant change

Parker (1997) USA 22 states 5-20 mi/h decreases (8-32 km/h decreases) No significant changes

Increases
---------
NHTSA (1989) USA 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Fatal crashes increased by 21%

McKnight, Kleinand Tippetts (1990), USA 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Fatal crashes
increased by 22% Speeding increased by 48%

Garber and Graham (1990) USA (40 States) 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Fatalities
increased by 15%

Streff and Schultz (1991) USA (Michigan) 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Fatal and injury
crashes increased significantly on rural freeways

Pant, Adhami and Niehaus (1992) USA (Ohio) 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Injury and
property damage crashes increased but not fatal crashes

Sliogeris (1992) Australia 100 km/h to 110 km/h (62 mi/h to 68 mi/h) Injury crashes increased by 25%

Lave and Elias (1994) USA (40 states) 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Statewide fatality
rates decreased 3-5% (Significant in 14 of 40 States)

Iowa Safety Task Force (1996) USA (Iowa) 55 mi/h to 65 mi/h (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Fatal crashes
increased by 36%

Parker (1992) USA (Michigan) Various No significant changes

Newstead and Mullan (1996) Australia (Victoria) 5-20 km/h increases (3-12 mi/h increases) Crashes
increased overall by 8% 35% decline in zones raised from 60-80

Parker (1997) USA 22 states 5-15 mi/h (8-24 km/h) No significant changes

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:24:09 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]/\/\> wrote:

>Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should all wear foam hats all the
>time. But what's that? People who bicycle are more likely to get head injuries than those who
>don't? Ahh, now it's a different subject. Prove
>it.

Playing soccer or american football, let alone rugby or aussie rules, in gym class is probably a
much bigger risk.

Jasper

 

[Pat]

x-no-archive:yes

Thanks for taking the time to post that. It was interesting reading.

Pat in Texas

 

[One Of The Six]

"Jasper Janssen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:24:09 -0500, Kevan Smith <[email protected]/\/\> wrote:
>
> >Since head injuries can occur at any time or place, perhaps we should
all wear
> >foam hats all the time. But what's that? People who bicycle are more
likely to
> >get head injuries than those who don't? Ahh, now it's a different
subject. Prove
> >it.
>
> Playing soccer or american football, let alone rugby or aussie rules, in gym class is probably a
> much bigger risk.
>

A lifetime of eating at McDonalds is probably an even bigger risk. Combine that with the number of
hours sat in front of a television (just the sitting, let alone the effects of the content) and you
have a much greater cause of shortened lifespans.

 

[Michael Davis]

[email protected] (Michael Malak) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm considering embarking upon a campaign to overturn bicycle helmet laws in my area. I was
> wondering if this has been done successfully anywhere in the world? I'm looking for "lessons
> learned" on how it was done (petitions, etc).
>
> To those who are pro-helmet: I do not feel you have a right to dictate that children wear a helmet
> and miss out on feeling the wind, freedom, independence, and the foundation toward a lifetime of
> physical activity.
>
> If every U.S. jurisdiction had a juvenile helmet law, only 137 lives would be saved. 687 * 0.29 *
> (2/3) = 137 http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
>
> Australia's helmet law caused a 36% decrease in ridership in chidlren.
> http://www.general.monash.edu.au/muarc/rptsum/ab32.htm
>
> Everyone has different perceptions and tolerances of risk. When the cost/benefit ratio of a safety
> behavior is in question, the government has no right to demand it.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5204a1.htm

 

[Doug Huffman]

Now there's a terse argument! So terse that it is a valueless appeal to authority. I guess that I
need to reinstate my filter against this anile topic. It is a 'religion' and no law should be made
respecting an establishment of religion.

"Michael Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5204a1.htm

 

[John Bartley K7]

On 30 Jun 2003 20:39:18 GMT, zeldabee <[email protected]> wrote:

>6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
>> [email protected] (Dave Rabinowitz) wrote:
>>
>> >Do a google search on bicycle head injury statistics and look at any of the more than 14,000
>> >hits to get a better idea of the real potential impact of helmet usage.
>>
>> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain scans to prove small
>> head trauma can have drastic impact on skils, abilities and temprament.
>
>...And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)

Yes, ma'am. Guilty as charged.

But was it Webster, or Clemens, who found folks boring if they only knew one way to spell a word?

--
Nobody but a fool goes into a federal counterrorism operation without duct tape - Richard Preston,
THE COBRA EVENT.

 

[Zeldabee]

6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> On 30 Jun 2003 20:39:18 GMT, zeldabee <[email protected]> wrote:
> >6212hgk{invert}@newsguy.com (John Bartley K7AAY (ex-KGH2126)) wrote:
> >>
> >> Please also visit brainplace.com, where a pediatric psychiatrist uses brain scans to prove
> >> small head trauma can have drastic impact on skils, abilities and temprament.
> >
> >...And spelling, I'd imagine... ;o)
>
> Yes, ma'am. Guilty as charged.
>
> But was it Webster, or Clemens, who found folks boring if they only knew one way to spell a word?

Could even be George Bernard Shaw or Lincoln, I suppose, who knows. Maybe Bartleby would know...I
just thought it was funny in context.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m http://NewsReader.Com/