Bad Bike Shop Manners??

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.marketplace' started by NYC XYZ, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

    Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    money.

    I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    recumbents....

    Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.

    Three weeks now and no response.

    So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    and now this dealer is incommunicado.

    WTF?!

    Are my expectations out of order?

    The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    for "good as new" bikes.

    Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.

    Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
    and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
    ??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
    repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
    enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
    true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
    how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
    know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
    I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
    all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.

    He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
    Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
    just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
    his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
    owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
    neurotic cat).

    Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?

    What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
    me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.

    Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?

    Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
    State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
    (maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
    gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
    return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!
     
    Tags:


  2. Rich

    Rich Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:

    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?


    Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying stuff.


    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door.


    How much of his time did you expect? He's in business, and his first
    priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.
    He sounds friendly enough to me.

    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!


    They're running a business, not a chat room.

    > Are my expectations out of order?


    I think so.

    Rich
     
  3. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Rich wrote:
    >
    >
    > Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying stuff.


    LOL -- he obviously went out of business 'cause he didn't know how to
    sell to people he was already talking to!

    > How much of his time did you expect?


    As much time as it takes to answer my questions, 90% of which he
    didn't.

    > He's in business, and his first
    > priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.


    Oh, the world's supposed to beat a path to his door, even when they
    call first to make arrangements for a visit?

    > He sounds friendly enough to me.


    Of course. You're not very friendly yourself.

    > They're running a business, not a chat room.


    So why talk my ear off about his life?

    > I think so.


    Tell me which bike shop you own, etc. -- I'll be sure not to patronize.

    > Rich
     
  4. Mark

    Mark Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    >
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.
    >
    > Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    > nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    > got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    > you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    > While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone


    --
    So, who or what is the common denominator in all these stories?

    Mark Scardiglia

    [email protected]
     
  5. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Mark wrote:
    >
    >
    > --
    > So, who or what is the common denominator in all these stories?
    >
    > Mark Scardiglia
    >
    > [email protected]



    War of 1812...Mexican-American War...Spanish-American War...Phillipine
    Insurrection...Boxer Rebellion...The Great War...The Big
    One...Korea...Vietnam...Dominican Republic...Grenada...Gulf I and
    II....

    Who's the common denominator?

    Just stick to the facts. It's easy to stick your tongue out and close
    your eyes, but unless you have any suggestions as to what I could have
    done differently, try not to feel so smug.

    You won't look good with egg all over your face.
     
  6. Capri

    Capri Guest

    <<One day I came in for a flat fix.>>


    You gotta take your bike into a bike shop to fix a flat? No wonder no
    one wants to spend much time with you.
     
  7. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Capri wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > You gotta take your bike into a bike shop to fix a flat? No wonder no
    > one wants to spend much time with you.



    But I'm not asking them to spend time with me.

    And what's wrong with having a bike shop fix flats?

    Do you think it's unmanly to use a map, too?
     
  8. Mark

    Mark Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    >
    > Mark wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > So, who or what is the common denominator in all these stories?
    > >
    > > Mark Scardiglia
    > >
    > > [email protected]

    >
    >
    > War of 1812...Mexican-American War...Spanish-American War...Phillipine
    > Insurrection...Boxer Rebellion...The Great War...The Big
    > One...Korea...Vietnam...Dominican Republic...Grenada...Gulf I and
    > II....
    >
    > Who's the common denominator?
    >
    > Just stick to the facts. It's easy to stick your tongue out and close
    > your eyes, but unless you have any suggestions as to what I could have
    > done differently, try not to feel so smug.
    >
    > You won't look good with egg all over your face.
    >
    >

    OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting about
    how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly or
    wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.

    You're right, it's not the norm.

    I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret handshake,
    as you put it.

    Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.
    --
    Mark Scardiglia

    [email protected]
     
  9. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Mark wrote:
    >
    > OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting about
    > how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly or
    > wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.


    Goodness, I'm glad you don't design bicycles for a living the way your
    brain works.

    > You're right, it's not the norm.


    You're wrong, I wasn't talking about that.

    Why do you pick and choose what you wish to ignore?

    > I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    > these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret handshake,
    > as you put it.


    You still haven't pointed out a single instance of what I'd done wrong.

    > Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.


    Your brain is toast.

    > --
    > Mark Scardiglia
    >
    > [email protected]
     
  10. Frank

    Frank Guest

    IGNORE THE TROLL


    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.
    >
    > Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    > nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    > got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    > you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    > While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
    > and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
    > ??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
    > repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
    > enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
    > true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
    > how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
    > know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
    > I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
    > all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.
    >
    > He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
    > Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
    > just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
    > his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
    > owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
    > neurotic cat).
    >
    > Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >
    > What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
    > me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.
    >
    > Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    > some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    > employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?
    >
    > Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
    > State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
    > (maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
    > gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
    > return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!
    >
     
  11. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    LOL -- and of course they needed you to tell them that!



    Frank wrote:
    > IGNORE THE TROLL
     
  12. Andrew Price

    Andrew Price Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote -

    > Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    > some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    > employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?
    >

    I think the all time difficult LBS guy is depicted in the Canadian movie
    "Two Seconds".

    The shop proprietlor, an ex road racer with considerable attitude, confronts
    Miss Downhill Racer with equal but opposite attitude. Breathtaking rudeness
    from him, but there is a reason ...

    Whilst demolishing a bottle of scotch after hours in the shop, each argues
    how their particular discpline gave true meaning to the concept of suffering
    on a bicycle.

    Friendship and mutual respect follow - liked that bit of the movie.

    best, Andrew
     
  13. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?


    These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  14. Little Meow

    Little Meow Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    > Mark wrote:
    >>
    >> OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting about
    >> how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly or
    >> wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.

    >
    > Goodness, I'm glad you don't design bicycles for a living the way your
    > brain works.
    >
    >> You're right, it's not the norm.

    >
    > You're wrong, I wasn't talking about that.
    >
    > Why do you pick and choose what you wish to ignore?
    >
    >> I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    >> these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret handshake,
    >> as you put it.

    >
    > You still haven't pointed out a single instance of what I'd done wrong.
    >
    >> Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.

    >
    > Your brain is toast.
    >
    >> --
    >> Mark Scardiglia
    >>
    >> [email protected]

    >


    You are correct. The problem is with them, not you. Those non-plussed
    customers must also have something wrong with them. They are not as
    perceptive as you, so they are unable to recognize when they are not
    receiving adequate service. Unfortunately, a shopper with your level
    of sophistication will rarely encounter a shop that is adequate.
     
  15. >> Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >
    > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?


    I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name). The
    place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't such
    things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly build a
    bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.
    And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the way
    customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?

    >
    > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >
    > --
    > -- Nothing is safe from me.
    > Above address is just a spam midden.
    > I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  16. justindavid

    justindavid Guest

    On 20 Jan 2006 18:28:20 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    >Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    >that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    >money.


    If you've never met a friendly person working in a bike shop you must
    have one hell of a personality.
     
  17. Paul Cassel

    Paul Cassel Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >

    If you could see yourself as these folks see you, then you'd understand
    that they are all there, but you won't find them without a serious
    change in attitude.

    I like the valve cap story - very illustrative.
     
  18. NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.
    >
    > Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    > nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    > got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    > you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    > While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
    > and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
    > ??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
    > repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
    > enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
    > true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
    > how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
    > know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
    > I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
    > all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.
    >
    > He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
    > Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
    > just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
    > his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
    > owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
    > neurotic cat).
    >
    > Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >
    > What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
    > me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.
    >
    > Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    > some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    > employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?


    No. It does seem that most bike shops are filled with either dolts or
    surly putzes that are there to prove something...some sort of a power
    trip about the 'knowledgeable vs the not' or something.
    Even in Boulder we hear stories about some shops, and why they'll never
    go in 'there' again. I think great bike shops or stores, kinda by
    definition, don't do well in 'talking', I think sometimes from pressure
    to sell, sell, sell.




    >
    > Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
    > State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
    > (maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
    > gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
    > return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!
     
  19. Rich wrote:
    > NYC XYZ wrote:
    >
    > > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

    >
    > Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying stuff.
    >
    >
    > > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > > door.

    >
    > How much of his time did you expect? He's in business, and his first
    > priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.
    > He sounds friendly enough to me.


    The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    suicide, they don't go outta biz.

    >
    > > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    > >
    > > WTF?!

    >
    > They're running a business, not a chat room.
    >
    > > Are my expectations out of order?

    >
    > I think so.
    >
    > Rich
     
  20. NYC XYZ wrote:
    > ...
    > War of 1812...Mexican-American War...Spanish-American War...Phillipine
    > Insurrection...Boxer Rebellion...The Great War...The Big
    > One...Korea...Vietnam...Dominican Republic...Grenada...Gulf I and
    > II....


    You forgot Panama - George H. W. Bush turning on his old CIA "asset"
    Manuel Noriega.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley
     
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