Bad Bike Shop Manners??

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.marketplace' started by NYC XYZ, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. mike

    mike Guest

    On 2006-01-21, Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Your shop *sells* valve caps? I knew it's tough to make a living with a
    >> bike shop but damn! <g>
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Bob Hunt

    >
    > Bob: One of those projects to get around to is my "Valve cap conspiracy"
    > page. I don't know if I can do it over-the-top enough to make sure everyone
    > realizes it's meant as a joke though. I've already taken the photos (clear
    > jars of valve caps, priced exhorbitantly).
    >
    > But before somebody here still isn't in on the joke, no, we don't sell valve
    > caps. They're too valuable. The only way you can get one is with a big
    > purchase. Over $100, we'll give you a valve cap. Otherwise no way. Not even
    > for $5. That's why they mysteriously disappear from your bike when you leave
    > it in for repair... that's how we make sure people buy more stuff.
    >
    > Just kidding!!!
    >
    > --Mike Jacoubowsky
    > Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReaction.com
    > Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
    >
    > "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>> >> Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >>> >
    >>> > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?
    >>>
    >>> I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    >>> well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name). The
    >>> place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't
    >>> such
    >>> things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly
    >>> build a
    >>> bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.
    >>> And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the
    >>> way
    >>> customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    >>> reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    >>> should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.
    >>>
    >>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    >>
    >>
    >> Your shop *sells* valve caps? I knew it's tough to make a living with a
    >> bike shop but damn! <g>
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Bob Hunt
    >>

    >
    >

    Now my riding friends all tell me that the only one that rides with
    valve caps anyway is some dude named FRED!!
    so who cares what happens to the caps
     


  2. RonSonic wrote:
    > On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Roger Zoul wrote:
    > >>
    > >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me. Now I
    > >> just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that covers all
    > >> the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the
    > >> others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long chain.
    > >> I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down.
    > >> heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.

    > >
    > >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.

    >
    > Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as many would,
    > a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.


    And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun.
    NOT." is not being pissy?

    > A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly insecure. I
    > think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.


    Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?

    Mr. Zoul could have written, "Does the long chain on a recumbent fling
    dirty water on the rider while riding in the rain?" or something
    similar.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)


    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  3. Mike Kruger

    Mike Kruger Guest

    "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > RonSonic wrote:
    >> On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >Roger Zoul wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me.
    >> >> Now I
    >> >> just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that
    >> >> covers all
    >> >> the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know
    >> >> the
    >> >> others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long
    >> >> chain.
    >> >> I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour
    >> >> down.
    >> >> heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
    >> >
    >> >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.

    >>
    >> Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as many
    >> would,
    >> a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.

    >
    > And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun.
    > NOT." is not being pissy?
    >
    >> A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly
    >> insecure. I
    >> think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.

    >
    > Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?
    >

    If you re-read Roger's post, he's clearly not posting this as fact. He says,
    in the snipped you quoted above, "I need to get up to speed on bents". "I
    don't know the others you mentioned", "I worry about", "I bet...". These
    aren't phrases used by those who are trying to sound like they know
    something they don't know.
     
  4. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Johnny Sunset <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> RonSonic wrote:
    :>> On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset"
    :>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>>
    :>> >
    :>> >Roger Zoul wrote:
    :>> >>
    :>> >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for
    :>> >> me. Now I just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there
    :>> >> a book that covers all the different types. I know what swg,
    :>> >> lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the others you mentioned. Also,
    :>> >> I worry about that really, really long chain. I bet that get's
    :>> >> you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down. heh,
    :>> >> riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
    :>> >
    :>> >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.
    :>>
    :>> Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as
    :>> many would, a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.
    :>
    :> And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of
    :> fun.
    :> NOT." is not being pissy?
    :>
    :>> A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly
    :>> insecure. I think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.
    :>
    :> Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?

    Do you really think anyone in their right mind would have took my comment -
    in context, mind you - as that from someone who knew something about 'bent?
    Obviously, I was expressing in opinion as someone who is clueless about
    'bents.

    :>
    :> Mr. Zoul could have written, "Does the long chain on a recumbent
    :> fling
    :> dirty water on the rider while riding in the rain?" or something
    :> similar.

    I could have written a lot of things. However, at the moment, I'm not
    searching out info. I'll do that later.

    :>
    :> --
    :> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
    :>
    :>
    :> --
    :> Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  5. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    Let me tell you a little about bad bicycle shop manners.

    1) Someone who calls on the telephone and wants a dozen questions answered
    most of which have to do with what parts cost. Well, to anyone that has had
    experience in a small shop they'd know that they can't tell you what most
    parts cost because they try to buy them from the cheapest source at the time
    they;re ordered and sometimes the difference in price can be 100%.

    2) Someone who calls on the telephone and wants a dozen questions answered
    and apparently doesn't know that small shops only have one or two people in
    them and walk-in money-in-hand customers have priority over time wasting
    phone callers.

    3) Someone who calls on the telephone and wants a dozen questions answered
    and doesn't know that small shops make most of their money off of labor from
    repairing bicycles and time spent on the phone answering questions for
    someone they're in all likelihood never to see is taking money directly out
    of the till.

    4) Someone who calls on the telephone and wants a dozen questions answered
    and whines to everyone else that the bicycle shop was rude to them without
    mentioning how rude they were to take up valuable time and then complain
    that they weren't satisfied with the answers they got or that paying
    customers should have been made to wait by someone who will never enter
    their shop but loves to take up their time.
     
  6. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    >
    > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > suicide, they don't go outta biz.


    Of course you're right but then it's a lot easier to make a living in
    Boulder than in New York City.

    When selling motorcycles I've spent two hours going over a dozen concerns of
    a customer who would "be back in the morning" to find out that he bought the
    same motorcycle down the street for $5 less (literally).

    Eventually I started treating customers the way they should be treated -
    with the same respect they gave me. And all of the horse's asses who wasted
    my time stopped coming in. And man if the profit didn't go up!
     
  7. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    No, only two out of the four.

    The 'bent folks weren't exactly "rude" per se, but seemed much less
    motivated for my business. Almost like when you go into the typical
    hospital or health care clinic ("typical," not Park Ave. $$$$$)...I
    swear, you get more enthusiasm at McDonald's sometimes!

    And I must update on one of the two 'bent dealers, Northeast
    Recumbents: the guy apologizes and says he's real busy, etc. -- as a
    matter of fact, he's closing shop! So I caught him just in time, I
    guess. Not that I haggled him at all; I insisted on paying "normal
    prices," even when he threw in freebies like organic snack bars and
    magazines. So that was real cool -- and very sad. Now there really is
    only the one dealer in all of The Empire State!

    He won't be closing right away, though, and he seems to have a healthy
    stock left, so I recommend y'all to help spread the word and give him a
    look yourself to see if there's anything you could use.



    Tom Keats wrote:
    >
    >
    > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >
    > --
    > -- Nothing is safe from me.
    > Above address is just a spam midden.
    > I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  8. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > suicide, they don't go outta biz.




    WHEW!!

    Thanks, I was actually starting to look in the mirror for moles,
    checking my breath, considering speech therapy...! =)

    Bike shops have always been kinda "gruff" ever since I can remember as
    a kid -- a "are you gonna buy that or not?" attitude. But what amazed
    me here is that I'm telling them I'm sold, already sold, on a $3K bike
    and I can't get a response!

    I must update: NorthEast Recumbents did finally return my call. Turns
    out the guy's actually closing shop for good! So I "forgive" (or
    whatever the right word is) the delayed response....
     
  9. The Wogster

    The Wogster Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >>>Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?

    >>
    >>These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?

    >
    >
    > I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    > well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name). The
    > place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't such
    > things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly build a
    > bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.
    > And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the way
    > customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    > reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    > should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.
    >


    Maybe a bike shop, should take the ones they find in the shop, and put
    them in a jar by the register, with a note that if you need one, help
    yourself. Then the customer who has one forgotten, will just come back,
    get one, and it saves the environment, from having all those millions of
    valve caps going to land fill. And saves the shop, from the
    embarrassment, of forgetting one.

    Personally I never throw a nut, bolt or screw away, I toss them in a
    small parts organizer (value caps go in there too), when I need a bolt,
    nut screw or valve cap I go to my organizer first, 99% of the time, I
    find what I need in there, which saves me a trip to the local hardware
    store ( or the home depot, since the local hardware store is a block
    away, I go there, it's shorter then the walk across the parking lot at
    the home despot ) and of course saves wear and tear on the car.....

    W
     
  10. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    The Wogster wrote:
    >
    >
    > Maybe it's your city, the folks at Bayview Cycle, here in Toronto, seem
    > to be nice enough, and I didn't buy my bike there (long story)... I
    > have bought a couple of other things there... More expensive then
    > buying accessories at Mountain Equipment Co-op downtown, but then they
    > are only a 20 minute ride away, where as M.E.C. is a 1 hour
    > bus/subway/streetcar away....
    >
    > I may take my bike to Bayview in the spring, the BB needs to be cleaned
    > and lubed, and they say they will do it as part of a tuneup for $40.
    >
    > I think the real issue, is to find an LBS that is close enough to where
    > you live, that you can and do go there on a regular basis, even if it's
    > just to see what's new. If your regular enough that the guy working
    > there, sees you come in, and calls you by name, then you are a regular,
    > and regulars always get better service, then walk in customers, it's the
    > way things are....
    >
    > W



    I'm actually regular at the two LBSes in NYC -- that's what makes this
    all the more inexplicable.

    Gus -- the owner himself! -- at Bike Stop tried to push off what turned
    out to be a defective headset on my new Trek 1000c as NORMAL! He
    actually said that sometimes they're just a bit loose and creaky,
    that's just how things are, nothing to worry about!! I've had odd
    experiences before on other occasions where I go in for a
    hundred-dollar tune-up and they miss the most obvious things, like a
    clicking derailleur (sp?) or whatever's the matter. Gus even installed
    my cyclocomputer wrong! Thankfully, it works all the same (or does it?
    How would you know if a word's misspelled in the dictionary? It
    certainly feels like 789 miles!).

    Evan, of Pedal Pusher infamy, was on friendly terms with me. I'd come
    in once in four months and he'd remember my name, where I lived, what
    bike I have, and what I came in for the last time around! But now that
    I think more about it, it may be because I declined buying a Gary
    Fisher from him last year when my old Trek was stolen but I loved that
    bike so much that I insisted on another Trek MultiTrack 7200 (the Trek
    1000c I now have is even better!). Evan showed me a catalog of Gary
    Fishers he can get which is supposed to be just as good, if not better.
    But he was showing me $400 stuff, and when I asked him how could they
    compare to ~$700 Trek MultiTracks, he couldn't say. Not only could he
    not say, for some reason he just "didn't hear" my question and
    half-ignored it and seemed to have answered another question
    altogether, the way you see politicians answer not what's asked but
    what they wish had been asked. That was so bizzare it really just
    "spooked" me -- and I had my heart set on my ol' MultiTrack 7200.

    So maybe he was sore from that. Not that I spent too much of his time
    -- ten minutes at most -- and not that I forced him to do a sales
    pitch, even -- I only asked whether he had the Trek MultiTrack 7200,
    that's all; I never asked for his opinions on comparable makes -- but
    maybe he holds a grudge, fueled by the purist's sense of disdain for
    dummies with dollars...?

    Now I'll be the first to admit I don't care for bike mechanics. It's
    like a guy who loves to eat but doesn't care to learn cooking. That's
    me and bicycles. I can fix a flat, sure, but it takes me twenty
    minutes, whereas it takes a pro five minutes. So I can easily support
    my local bike shop where that's concerned. But I don't wear Spandex, I
    don't wear no helmets, and I didn't know about internal-gear hubs until
    yesterday!

    So maybe he was sore that a mechanical moron like me refuses a sale
    from a racer like him simply on the basis of "gee, how is a $400 Gary
    Fisher comparable to a $700 Trek?"
     
  11. Little Meow

    Little Meow Guest

    Phil Holman wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "Little Meow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> NYC XYZ wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Mark wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting
    >>>> about
    >>>> how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly
    >>>> or
    >>>> wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.
    >>>
    >>> Goodness, I'm glad you don't design bicycles for a living the way
    >>> your
    >>> brain works.
    >>>
    >>>> You're right, it's not the norm.
    >>>
    >>> You're wrong, I wasn't talking about that.
    >>>
    >>> Why do you pick and choose what you wish to ignore?
    >>>
    >>>> I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    >>>> these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret
    >>>> handshake,
    >>>> as you put it.
    >>>
    >>> You still haven't pointed out a single instance of what I'd done
    >>> wrong.
    >>>
    >>>> Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.
    >>>
    >>> Your brain is toast.
    >>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Mark Scardiglia
    >>>>
    >>>> [email protected]
    >>>

    >>
    >> You are correct. The problem is with them, not you. Those non-plussed
    >> customers must also have something wrong with them. They are not as
    >> perceptive as you, so they are unable to recognize when they are not
    >> receiving adequate service. Unfortunately, a shopper with your level
    >> of sophistication will rarely encounter a shop that is adequate.

    >
    > IOW....... get real. Is that what you mean?
    >

    Not really.
    Only a true princess would be sensitive enough to feel the pea.
     
  12. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Claire Petersky wrote:
    >
    >
    > Well, my feeling is, I'd always deal with a customer in the shop before I
    > dealt with one on the phone. The person in the shop has made the effort to
    > at least come in, and is more likely to buy.


    I should have noted that I called him to set up an appointment for a
    visit. I made that extremely clear right at the beginning, but my
    asking one question begets whole pages of soliloquy from him -- which I
    appreciated, and which is why when that customer walked in, he didn't
    simply park me, or park the customer, momentarily, but right away told
    me someone walked, he gotta go, good-bye.

    A full 80% of the conversation was dominated by him. At the end of it
    all, I still didn't get a price from him -- he told me the "plain Jane
    price," but I wanted to know what the "real" price, with options, would
    be. So I'd ask about disc brakes, and he answers by telling me about
    his experiences with them, etc. -- but I never got a price! And this
    goes on for the whole conversation...and then someone else walks in and
    he hangs up on me in ten seconds -- six of which was me asking him if
    it's all right for me to wrap up via e-mail.

    Sure, he says. But I never got a response, and that was three weeks
    ago.

    As it turns out, it's probably for the best -- "Glory be to God!" as he
    says on his website -- 'cause I located a dealer much much much closer
    to me (fifteen miles instead of three hundred) who could actually use
    the business, since he's unfortunately going out of business: NorthEast
    Recumbents.

    > Also, I confess, I am not much of a phone person. I want to see and handle
    > the merchandise. Also, I appreciate the f2f interaction with the people in
    > the shop. Maybe you're more of a phone/email type?


    Let's just say that, barely speaking proper English, I would've been
    Seventh Grade Class President were it not for someone even
    better-looking than me entering the race at the last minute!!!!

    > --
    > Warm Regards,
    >
    > Claire Petersky
    > http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
    > Sponsor me for the Big Climb! See: www.active.com/donate/cpetersky06
    > See the books I've set free at:
    > http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
     
  13. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >
    >
    > Would be nice if that could always be the case, but... there are times when
    > a conversation goes from "customer" mode to "chat" and, realistically, the
    > customer whose needs haven't been served take precedence over someone in
    > "chat" mode.


    Please believe me, as someone who's done retail and telemarketing, I
    certainly appreciate the value of time. And as someone who's Ex'
    mother was so lonely that she'd chat up telemarketers just for the heck
    of it, I know what you mean!

    But I had an actualy list of questions for The Bicycleman, none of
    which were answered completely. For example, I tried asking about the
    price of an air-shock option; he responded by giving me a nice 101
    lecture on the mechanics of it all. Fine and dandy! I thought. Very
    friendly! Really cares for his customer! And the whole
    fifteen/twenty-minute conversation is like this -- I ask one thing, and
    he gives me wikipedia.com -- until when someone walks in and he barely
    excuses himself in ten seconds (half of which was me asking him if I
    may e-mail; he said yes, but I never did get a response).

    > It really shouldn't be that big a deal either; it's not that
    > difficult to gracefully disconnect yourself from such a conversation by
    > letting the person know that you'd like to hear more about it later, but
    > right now you've got to take care of another customer. I don't think that's
    > rude, and I'll bet the majority of people (who you might have to cut a bit
    > short) would respect that, since they've been in the shoes of the person who
    > has to wait... and wait... and wait... while someone is having a friendly
    > conversation that appears to have little to do with business.


    Sorry I didn't mention this, but I called him to set up an appointment,
    since he's three hundred miles from me. I was very "business-minded,"
    but was actually relieved that he seemed to have time to expound
    in-depth! So I really didn't think much of it when he dropped me; it
    was just that he never did respond to e-mail, which seemed to cap off a
    most unusual sales pitch.

    Forgive the caricature -- I only employ it as a kind of short-hand --
    but he reminded me of a Brainy Smurf type: talk talk talk but I never
    got my answer!

    > In all seriousness, there are very few things that can be resolved over the
    > phone better in a 15-minute conversation than 5. In most cases, anything
    > that detailed needs to be dealt with in-person, in the store.


    I agree -- but in this case, after all's said and done, he's lost my
    $3K.

    Which he doesn't need, of course -- he was telling me all about this
    customer from Australia...he's "too blessed to be stressed."

    Which is just as well, since I found a dealer soooooo much closer who
    could actually use my business since he is, unfortunately, going to go
    out of business soon.

    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  14. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Thanks; now I know what to expect from a bike shop:

    Defective parts.

    Paying brand-new pricing for display models.

    Getting your tire caps swiped.

    Getting your ear talked off when all you want to know is the price.


    I'm sorry -- amazon.com has spoiled me!!



    Little Meow wrote:
    > Phil Holman wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    > >
    > > "Little Meow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >> NYC XYZ wrote in
    > >> news:[email protected]:
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>> Mark wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>> OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting
    > >>>> about
    > >>>> how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly
    > >>>> or
    > >>>> wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.
    > >>>
    > >>> Goodness, I'm glad you don't design bicycles for a living the way
    > >>> your
    > >>> brain works.
    > >>>
    > >>>> You're right, it's not the norm.
    > >>>
    > >>> You're wrong, I wasn't talking about that.
    > >>>
    > >>> Why do you pick and choose what you wish to ignore?
    > >>>
    > >>>> I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    > >>>> these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret
    > >>>> handshake,
    > >>>> as you put it.
    > >>>
    > >>> You still haven't pointed out a single instance of what I'd done
    > >>> wrong.
    > >>>
    > >>>> Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.
    > >>>
    > >>> Your brain is toast.
    > >>>
    > >>>> --
    > >>>> Mark Scardiglia
    > >>>>
    > >>>> [email protected]
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >> You are correct. The problem is with them, not you. Those non-plussed
    > >> customers must also have something wrong with them. They are not as
    > >> perceptive as you, so they are unable to recognize when they are not
    > >> receiving adequate service. Unfortunately, a shopper with your level
    > >> of sophistication will rarely encounter a shop that is adequate.

    > >
    > > IOW....... get real. Is that what you mean?
    > >

    > Not really.
    > Only a true princess would be sensitive enough to feel the pea.
     
  15. Roger Zoul wrote:
    > Johnny Sunset <[email protected]> wrote:
    > :> RonSonic wrote:
    > :>> On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset"
    > :>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    > :>>
    > :>> >
    > :>> >Roger Zoul wrote:
    > :>> >>
    > :>> >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for
    > :>> >> me. Now I just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there
    > :>> >> a book that covers all the different types. I know what swg,
    > :>> >> lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the others you mentioned. Also,
    > :>> >> I worry about that really, really long chain. I bet that get's
    > :>> >> you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down. heh,
    > :>> >> riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
    > :>> >
    > :>> >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.
    > :>>
    > :>> Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as
    > :>> many would, a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.
    > :>
    > :> And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of
    > :> fun.
    > :> NOT." is not being pissy?
    > :>
    > :>> A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly
    > :>> insecure. I think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.
    > :>
    > :> Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?
    >
    > Do you really think anyone in their right mind would have took my comment -
    > in context, mind you - as that from someone who knew something about 'bent?
    > Obviously, I was expressing in opinion as someone who is clueless about
    > 'bents....


    Why express a derogatory opinion then? This is not rec.bicycles.racing
    after all.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  16. Mike Kruger wrote:
    > "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > RonSonic wrote:
    > >> On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> >Roger Zoul wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me.
    > >> >> Now I
    > >> >> just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that
    > >> >> covers all
    > >> >> the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know
    > >> >> the
    > >> >> others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long
    > >> >> chain.
    > >> >> I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour
    > >> >> down.
    > >> >> heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
    > >> >
    > >> >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.
    > >>
    > >> Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as many
    > >> would,
    > >> a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.

    > >
    > > And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun.
    > > NOT." is not being pissy?
    > >
    > >> A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly
    > >> insecure. I
    > >> think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.

    > >
    > > Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?
    > >

    > If you re-read Roger's post, he's clearly not posting this as fact. He says,
    > in the snipped you quoted above, "I need to get up to speed on bents". "I
    > don't know the others you mentioned", "I worry about", "I bet...". These
    > aren't phrases used by those who are trying to sound like they know
    > something they don't know.


    Using "heh" and "NOT" in this context is derogatory towards recumbents.
    If the comment was not meant to be derogatory, it should have been
    phrased differently.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  17. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > suicide, they don't go outta biz.
    >


    I've seen guys stay in a shop literally for hours without ever intending
    to purchase a thing. You would entertain these guys for that long?

    Greg
    --
    "All my time I spent in heaven
    Revelries of dance and wine
    Waking to the sound of laughter
    Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
     
  18. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Tom Kunich wrote:
    >
    >
    > Of course you're right but then it's a lot easier to make a living in
    > Boulder than in New York City.
    >
    > When selling motorcycles I've spent two hours going over a dozen concerns of
    > a customer who would "be back in the morning" to find out that he bought the
    > same motorcycle down the street for $5 less (literally).
    >
    > Eventually I started treating customers the way they should be treated -
    > with the same respect they gave me. And all of the horse's asses who wasted
    > my time stopped coming in. And man if the profit didn't go up!



    One guy didn't put back my tire cap. When I asked him about it, he got
    very sarcastic. This is my fault?

    The other guy sold me a display model I had to pay brand-new pricing on
    which came with a defective headset that he insisted was nothing to
    worry about. That's my fault too?

    Yet another guy gives me the Encyclopaedia Britannica when I asked
    about options and prices, and then drops me when someone walks in like
    it was his wife and we're lovers. And he never wrote back. This is my
    fault as well?

    I told him I was sold on the bike. I called to make an appointment for
    a visit, since he's three hundred miles. He tells me about the
    customer who came all the way from Australia.

    He obviously doesn't need my business. I'm happy to give it to the guy
    who, unfortunately, is going out of business.

    God works in mysterious ways, as the Recumbent-Bible-in-Bike-Shoes
    would surely agree.
     
  19. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:

    > The 'bent folks weren't exactly "rude" per se, but seemed much less
    > motivated for my business. Almost like when you go into the typical
    > hospital or health care clinic ("typical," not Park Ave. $$$$$)...I
    > swear, you get more enthusiasm at McDonald's sometimes!


    ehnngh ... you've still got your money.

    They don't.


    cheers,
    Tom


    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  20. Jeff Starr

    Jeff Starr Guest

    On 21 Jan 2006 19:22:19 -0800, "Johnny Sunset"
    <[email protected]> wrote:



    >> >

    >> If you re-read Roger's post, he's clearly not posting this as fact. He says,
    >> in the snipped you quoted above, "I need to get up to speed on bents". "I
    >> don't know the others you mentioned", "I worry about", "I bet...". These
    >> aren't phrases used by those who are trying to sound like they know
    >> something they don't know.

    >
    >Using "heh" and "NOT" in this context is derogatory towards recumbents.
    >If the comment was not meant to be derogatory, it should have been
    >phrased differently.


    Oh, those poor recumbents, did Roger hurt their feelings?

    I read Roger's post and I have read other posts by him, for the last
    couple of years. It's you, not Roger who is being a jerk.

    Jeff
    Jeffrey Starr
    All rights to the above text is reserved. No use
    outside of rec.bicycle.tech, without express written
    permission.
     
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