Bad Weld/ Frame Replacement Claim...Valid?

That's not a high-stress part of that joint, so it looks more cosmetic
to me -- but I'm no expert.

I wouldn't want to be without my bike for such a minor issue while they
warranty it. It would involve completely disassembling the bike to move
the components to the new frame, and that's an operation that I
wouldn't be excited to have done on a new bike. More opportunities for
scratches and possible minor adjustment issues.

I'd probably put some painter's caulk on my thumb, press it into the
hole, then wipe it all off. If it didn't look ok with a tiny dot of
white after it dried, I'd paint it with some Testor's model paint from
WallyMart using a tiny brush.

-Mike

Mike Reed said:

That's not a high-stress part of that joint, so it looks more cosmetic
to me -- but I'm no expert.

I wouldn't want to be without my bike for such a minor issue while they
warranty it. It would involve completely disassembling the bike to move
the components to the new frame, and that's an operation that I
wouldn't be excited to have done on a new bike. More opportunities for
scratches and possible minor adjustment issues.

I'd probably put some painter's caulk on my thumb, press it into the
hole, then wipe it all off. If it didn't look ok with a tiny dot of
white after it dried, I'd paint it with some Testor's model paint from
WallyMart using a tiny brush.

-Mike

It's a 2001, but low mileage due to a car wreck just after I bought it.
I'm just now able to start riding again. My hope, honestly, is that it's
enough that they'll replace it due to a crash I got into yesterday, See
my post above "BIG guy crashes".

I don't mind downtime as I have other bikes. I'm concerned because I'm a
large guy who's going to put more stress than average. I'm 215 lbs and
the frame is a 61 cm.

"Franz Bestuchev" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm about to
take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

I was a welder about twenty years ago and I don't think that the strength of the
weld is in any way compromised by the small hole. This happens frequently in
welding and is usually ignored. Normally the paint will fill the hole.

Franz Bestuchev said:

I don't mind downtime as I have other bikes. I'm concerned because I'm a
large guy who's going to put more stress than average. I'm 215 lbs and
the frame is a 61 cm.

Yeah, if you want to get a new frame under you, you might pursue it.
I'll bet that they'll call it a cosmetic issue and not warranty it.

At 215 lbs, you're not outside the fray for frame stress, especially at
the top of that joint. Also, since this is a well-made steel frame,
it's going to be really strong. I think you could drill a 1/4" hole in
the joint, using that weld as a pilot, and the frame would still be
fine. Even if your crash somehow messed up the frame alignment
slightly, it's unlikely to have done any structural damage. Steel
frames can be bent back in to shape and not suffer any weakening.

Regarding your weight, you're not /that/ big. When I decided to "get
back into" cycling, I was 6'4" and had balooned to 220 lbs, riding on a
62cm frame. I've since ridden myself down to 182 lbs.

I can't seem to shake the 6'4" though.

-Mike

"Franz Bestuchev" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

Don't know but those sure are some crappy looking welds compared to the ones
on my Soma.

Greg

Franz Bestuchev said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

I had a 5 year old bonded alum Trek frame break under normal use. Trek
didn't care much. Rep said the frame must have been crashed for a bond
to break, he could not find any evidence in the paint job to support
his crash theory though... Might as well try, the worst they could say
is "no". Good luck.

-nate

No offense, but asking them to warranty this on a five year old frame
which you crashed is unreasonable. I defer to the experts here
regarding the structural integrity, but they seem to agree it's OK. I
have the same vintage steel Lemond frame, but the cyclocrosss version
(Poprad), and it has the same crappy welds. I have abused the hell out
of it for five years and it has held up to cross racing and being used
as a XC MTB. You should be fine for road riding.

Franz Bestuchev said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

Jeez, use some common sense. It's a tiny pin hole. It should have been
filled before paint. You can do it-get some spot putty at the auto
parts store. fill it and touch it up. It will affect the frame not one
whit.
Phil Brown

Quoted message said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

In my opinion that's not a warranty issue, and certainly not something that
looks like it would in some way weaken the frame. In most cases that pinhole
would be filled in with paint, but for some reason this one wasn't. In our
shop, it might earn a $25 "blem" credit, but most people wouldn't be
bothered with it.

If it's bothersome to look at, you can simply put a small amount of paint
there (as should have been the case originally) and nobody will ever know.

One of the technical reasons for the relative ugliness of some welds is that
they no longer weld all the way around the tube at once, but rather do one
quarter of the weld, then move on to another tube junction. Doing this helps
reduce built-in stresses, but also means you have four start/stop points for
each weld (which is visually noticeable).

LeMond warrants cosmetic issues for one year, and if push came to shove,
within that year period of time could probably be talked into repainting the
frame. But... had such a bike come into my shop, I would have suggested that
a small cosmetic "blem" credit might be appropriate, but that it really
wasn't worthwhile to repaint the entire bike for such a small thing,
especially since it could be touched up easily and the bike would be out of
commission for 4 weeks if it was sent back.

That's practical bicycle retailer thinking; your mileage may vary.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: (clip) had such a bike come into my shop, I would
have suggested that a small cosmetic "blem" credit might be appropriate,
but that it really wasn't worthwhile to repaint the entire bike for such a
small thing, especially since it could be touched up easily and the bike
would be out of commission for 4 weeks if it was sent back. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think many owners would take the bike in the back and rub a dab of paint
into the pinhole. Let the customer believe that the weld was redone, but
avoid actually lying if possible.

A guy comes into a bodyshop with a car and a color chip, and asks for the
car to be painted to match the chip. A few days later, when he comes to
pick up the car, he holds up the chip, walks around the car, squints a lot,
frowns, and says, "you got it pretty close, but I wanted it perfect. You'll
have to do it over." The shop owner says, "Okay, leave the chip and the
car, and I'll see what I can do." As soon as the customer leaves, he props
the chip on the wall and sprays it with some of the paint he has left from
the car. When the customer returns he holds up the chip and says, "I knew
you could do it," and drives off satisfied.

In article <[email hidden]>,

G.T. said:

"Franz Bestuchev" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

Don't know but those sure are some crappy looking welds compared to the ones
on my Soma.

Greg

Shows what you know. Those welds are "soulful"! They distinguish this
frame from soulless bicycles like your soma.

My soulful Pinarello features neat ez-peel decals. My soulless
made-not-in-Italy FC frame features painted graphics, which will never
go anywhere.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Lou D'Amelio said:

No offense, but asking them to warranty this on a five year old frame
which you crashed is unreasonable. I defer to the experts here
regarding the structural integrity, but they seem to agree it's OK. I
have the same vintage steel Lemond frame, but the cyclocrosss version
(Poprad), and it has the same crappy welds. I have abused the hell out
of it for five years and it has held up to cross racing and being used
as a XC MTB. You should be fine for road riding.

Amen. You (the OP) have had this frame for 5 years. The only reason you
are fussing about this pinhole is that you crashed the bike and you are
actually worried that it might have been damaged in the crash. Crash
damage is not the manufacturer's fault. Live with it. If you think there
is a misalignment due to your crash, go to a builder and get the
alignment checked. But don't try to pass this off as a manufacturing
defect.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

David L. Johnson wrote:
You (the OP) have had this frame for 5 years. The only reason you

Quoted message said:

are fussing about this pinhole is that you crashed the bike and you are
actually worried that it might have been damaged in the crash. Crash
damage is not the manufacturer's fault. Live with it. If you think there
is a misalignment due to your crash, go to a builder and get the
alignment checked. But don't try to pass this off as a manufacturing
defect.

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

Ouch!

Lou D'Amelio said:

No offense, but asking them to warranty this on a five year old frame
which you crashed is unreasonable. I defer to the experts here
regarding the structural integrity, but they seem to agree it's OK. I
have the same vintage steel Lemond frame, but the cyclocrosss version
(Poprad), and it has the same crappy welds. I have abused the hell out
of it for five years and it has held up to cross racing and being used
as a XC MTB. You should be fine for road riding.

The pics were taken literally hours before the crash. It was something
that I had wanted to look into even before my spill.

David L. Johnson said:

Lou D'Amelio said:

No offense, but asking them to warranty this on a five year old frame
which you crashed is unreasonable. I defer to the experts here
regarding the structural integrity, but they seem to agree it's OK. I
have the same vintage steel Lemond frame, but the cyclocrosss version
(Poprad), and it has the same crappy welds. I have abused the hell out
of it for five years and it has held up to cross racing and being used
as a XC MTB. You should be fine for road riding.

Amen. You (the OP) have had this frame for 5 years. The only reason you
are fussing about this pinhole is that you crashed the bike and you are
actually worried that it might have been damaged in the crash. Crash
damage is not the manufacturer's fault. Live with it. If you think there
is a misalignment due to your crash, go to a builder and get the
alignment checked. But don't try to pass this off as a manufacturing
defect.

The pictures pre-date the accident by several hours. I don't *want* to
defraud them, if the bike is still true and the weld is not a problem
then the only thing I'm bothered by is the nasty road rash on my right hand.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

In my opinion that's not a warranty issue, and certainly not something that
looks like it would in some way weaken the frame. In most cases that pinhole
would be filled in with paint, but for some reason this one wasn't. In our
shop, it might earn a $25 "blem" credit, but most people wouldn't be
bothered with it.

If it's bothersome to look at, you can simply put a small amount of paint
there (as should have been the case originally) and nobody will ever know.

One of the technical reasons for the relative ugliness of some welds is that
they no longer weld all the way around the tube at once, but rather do one
quarter of the weld, then move on to another tube junction. Doing this helps
reduce built-in stresses, but also means you have four start/stop points for
each weld (which is visually noticeable).

LeMond warrants cosmetic issues for one year, and if push came to shove,
within that year period of time could probably be talked into repainting the
frame. But... had such a bike come into my shop, I would have suggested that
a small cosmetic "blem" credit might be appropriate, but that it really
wasn't worthwhile to repaint the entire bike for such a small thing,
especially since it could be touched up easily and the bike would be out of
commission for 4 weeks if it was sent back.

That's practical bicycle retailer thinking; your mileage may vary.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

That's what I needed to know, thanks!

I bought this bike and was in an auto accident shortly thereafter. It's
only been recently that I've been able to ride anything with a road
style posture and spotted this when I got it out to clean off the dust.

But a soma (whatever that is) is not a Lemond- bikes inspired by the
finest American cyclist ever

Franz Bestuchev said:

A welder friend of mine spotted this hole in the weld on my frame, I'm
about to take it to the Trek dealer to get it evaluated. Is this a valid
claim?

http://www.userealsugar.com/lemond_weld/

It looks fine to me. Some people claim to have found Cannondale welds
full of epoxy wfter stripping off the paint.

G.T. wrote:

on't know but those sure are some crappy looking welds compared to the ones

Quoted message said:

on my Soma.

Or on my bargain-basement Fuji. In fact, they were so good I had a
flam/candy apple paint job to show them off.