Bike Courier Melbourne



hippy wrote:
> Found this OLD news: http://www.messengers.org/news/news.melbourne.html
> Did the courier companies actually introduce a code of conduct?
> Is it followed?
> Is it possible to earn a living in this job WITHOUT breaking
> (m)any laws?
> Do all/most/some/little of the couriers break the laws?
> cheers! hippy




apologies, i didnt answer all the questions, i was ranting...

i would say that in the first week 70% of couriers follow the laws and
that rapidly declines to about 0% after 3-4 months.



--
 
On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:47:01 GMT, Zebee Johnstone said (and I quote):
> Because there are plenty of cyclists who aren't lawbreakers, they just
> aren't "seen". A cyclist who does something a car driver can't is not
> upsetting the car driver cos the cyclist is breaking the law. They are
> upsetting them cos the driver is stuck and the cyclist isn't.


On the other hand, it is the cyclist who scrupulously follows the law,
who takes the lane when it is too narrow for lane-sharing, who nevers
mounts the footpath, who gets in the right lane nice and early for
right-hand turns, and who generally takes their rightful place on the
road that car drivers really notice (and despise).

People practicing "folk cycling" are far less noticeable to car drivers.
--
What was I thinking?
 
"byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Drs wrote:
> > "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:YeBqc.-
> >

[email protected]:[email protected]
> > etserver.com
> > [...]
> > > 8) Be a deviant when the cops arent looking and a model citizen

when
> > > they are. Traffic lights are for cars, not bikes (oh oh, i might
> > > have started something here!)

>
> > That's exactly the sort of antisocial behaviour that causes the rest

of
> > us so much grief because we cop the backlash.

>
> mmmmm..... i dont know about that. I dont make any excuses for what i
> did when i was a courier and i know i broke the law. There are
> reasons for what i did and if you like i can go through them all.
> Essentially the faster i cut through the city the more coin i
> made. I received no holidays, no sick days, nothing. From first
> thing in the morning i started on zero. I personally feel it is
> unfair for someone else to criticise couriers for their action
> until YOU, yourself have done the job, having to rely on what you
> made each day to look after yourself.


What does that have to do with you breaking the law and us copping the
backlash from it? Traffic lights are most certainly also for bikes. The
law says so.

> I never hit anyone, i did
> not endanger lives, I did not ride on sidewalks at 30kph and did
> not fang it through pedestrian crossings almost hitting people. I
> knew how to ride in a way that made me mostly unnoticable. People
> didnt notice me and that way i could do what i wanted.
>
> If you spend 8 hours a day in a city you will soon see how
> inefficient and ineffective routes are around a city. Cities are made
> cars, not bikes.


Which has got what to do with what?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 
Drs wrote:
> "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:LgUqc.-
> [email protected]:[email protected]
> enetserver.com...
> > Drs wrote:
> > > "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:YeBqc.-news:YeBqc.-
> > >

> [email protected]:[email protected]-
> > > etserver.com [...]
> > > > 8) Be a deviant when the cops arent looking and a model citizen

> when
> > > > they are. Traffic lights are for cars, not bikes (oh oh, i
> > > > might have started something here!)

> >
> > > That's exactly the sort of antisocial behaviour that causes the
> > > rest

> of
> > > us so much grief because we cop the backlash.

> >
> > mmmmm..... i dont know about that. I dont make any excuses for what i
> > did when i was a courier and i know i broke the law. There are
> > reasons for what i did and if you like i can go through them
> > all. Essentially the faster i cut through the city the more coin
> > i made. I received no holidays, no sick days, nothing. From
> > first thing in the morning i started on zero. I personally feel
> > it is unfair for someone else to criticise couriers for their
> > action until YOU, yourself have done the job, having to rely on
> > what you made each day to look after yourself.

> What does that have to do with you breaking the law and us copping the
> backlash from it? Traffic lights are most certainly also for bikes. The
> law says so.
> > I never hit anyone, i did not endanger lives, I did not ride on
> > sidewalks at 30kph and did not fang it through pedestrian
> > crossings almost hitting people. I knew how to ride in a way
> > that made me mostly unnoticable. People didnt notice me and that
> > way i could do what i wanted.
> >
> > If you spend 8 hours a day in a city you will soon see how
> > inefficient and ineffective routes are around a city. Cities are made
> > cars, not bikes.

> Which has got what to do with what?
> --
> A: Top-posters.
> B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?




just because something is the law, doesnt make it the "right" thing to
do. Who makes the laws?, humans with just as many preconceptions as
anyone else. If you believe in the laws of the land, and you have
thought through them and they feel rationally, logically and socially
sound, then good for you. If you just follow them because they are the
rules, dont you think you need to think about them and ask yourself "Do
i really agree with this?".

I dont agree with some laws, and as such i dont respect them.



--
 
On Fri, 21 May 2004 02:19:04 GMT, byron27
<[email protected]> wrote:

>just because something is the law, doesnt make it the "right" thing to
>do. Who makes the laws?, humans with just as many preconceptions as
>anyone else. If you believe in the laws of the land, and you have
>thought through them and they feel rationally, logically and socially
>sound, then good for you. If you just follow them because they are the
>rules, dont you think you need to think about them and ask yourself "Do
>i really agree with this?".
>
>I dont agree with some laws, and as such i dont respect them.


Just because you DON'T agree with some laws, does NOT make it ok to
break them.

If you truly think they are unjust - then go about lobbying to have them
changed. Civil disobedience is a grossly overused cop out by those who
can't be arsed living by the rules of society.

Your actions advocate anarchy - where everybody does what they want to
do 'coz it 'seems' right to them.


---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
byron27 wrote:
> Drs wrote:
> > "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:LgUqc.-
> > [email protected]:[email protected]
> > enetserver.com...
> > > Drs wrote:
> > > > "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> > news:YeBqc.-news:YeBqc.-
> > > >

> > [email protected]:[email protected]-
> > > > etserver.com [...]
> > > > > 8) Be a deviant when the cops arent looking and a model citizen

> > when
> > > > > they are. Traffic lights are for cars, not bikes (oh oh, i
> > > > > might have started something here!)
> > >
> > > > That's exactly the sort of antisocial behaviour that causes the
> > > > rest

> > of
> > > > us so much grief because we cop the backlash.
> > >
> > > mmmmm..... i dont know about that. I dont make any excuses for what i
> > > did when i was a courier and i know i broke the law. There are
> > > reasons for what i did and if you like i can go through them
> > > all. Essentially the faster i cut through the city the more coin
> > > i made. I received no holidays, no sick days, nothing. From
> > > first thing in the morning i started on zero. I personally feel
> > > it is unfair for someone else to criticise couriers for their
> > > action until YOU, yourself have done the job, having to rely on
> > > what you made each day to look after yourself.

> > What does that have to do with you breaking the law and us copping the
> > backlash from it? Traffic lights are most certainly also for bikes. The
> > law says so.
> > > I never hit anyone, i did not endanger lives, I did not ride on
> > > sidewalks at 30kph and did not fang it through pedestrian
> > > crossings almost hitting people. I knew how to ride in a way
> > > that made me mostly unnoticable. People didnt notice me and that
> > > way i could do what i wanted.
> > >
> > > If you spend 8 hours a day in a city you will soon see how
> > > inefficient and ineffective routes are around a city. Cities are made
> > > cars, not bikes.

> > Which has got what to do with what?
> > --
> > A: Top-posters.
> > B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

>
>
>
> just because something is the law, doesnt make it the "right" thing to
> do. Who makes the laws?, humans with just as many preconceptions as
> anyone else. If you believe in the laws of the land, and you have
> thought through them and they feel rationally, logically and socially
> sound, then good for you. If you just follow them because they are the
> rules, dont you think you need to think about them and ask yourself "Do
> i really agree with this?".
>
> I dont agree with some laws, and as such i dont respect them.
>
>
>
> --
>
>


Oh no, here we go again.

DaveB
 
Drs wrote:
> That's exactly the sort of antisocial behaviour that causes the rest of
> us so much grief because we cop the backlash.




The reason you cop so much grief is because cyclists are identified as
'cyclists', not individuals. That's as much the fault of community
minded cyclists as anybody else - though it also shows an astonishing
failure of reason on the part of car drivers who employ this logic. Few
people suggest that car drivers as a whole are idiots because one
person speeds, or drives dangerously near a bunch, or whatever. If
someone careers through a red light and cleans up themselves, a
pedestrian, hits a car, or slows someone down, that's their
responsibility. It shouldn't reflect on me as an individual. I just
happen to ride a bike. If I choose to go through a red light and cause
noone inconvenience then I have broken the law, but it's my choice and
it reflects badly on me only. Frankly, I don't give a damn if people
drive up the Hume in a new porsche or an HSV at 140 as long as they pay
attention. They are breaking the law, but it's pretty safe in a car
with excellent brakes and handling, and a competent driver. In a
similar way, there are safe ways to negotiate your way through some
illegal situations on a bike, and if I make the choice I don't see why
it would worry you all so much. It's my choice, not yours, and whatever
it reflects, it reflects on me, not you.

And as for being a courier... I'm with byron on this, you don't know
until you've ridden a (40) mile(s) in our rain soaked, road gritty, worn
out shoes. By the way, the bike cops are top blokes, but they'll still
book you if you roll a red most of the time during the day while your
working. They give a little leeway sometimes, but ultimately it's their
job to enforce the law. They caught me out once, and I don't begrudge
them that.



--
 
Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
[snip]


> People don't think badly of cyclists because of seeing a lawbreaker.


Not what I here/see

> Because there are plenty of cyclists who aren't lawbreakers, they just
> aren't "seen". A cyclist who does something a car driver can't is not
> upsetting the car driver cos the cyclist is breaking the law. They are
> upsetting them cos the driver is stuck and the cyclist isn't.
>


End result is the same. Can we ask car drivers, ney, demand car
drivers to respect the laws, particluarly the laws which are most
relevent to cyclists, when a minority, but a very very visible one,
refuse to ?

Isn't it time that we cyclists actually behave better than motorists,
'cos in the end car v bike is a no contest ?

> People aren't rational and law abiding and disliking those who aren't.
> People - car, pushbike, motorbike - will do what they think they can get
> away with, and are annoyed by people who get away with more.
>
> Face it.. if a cyclist could monster a car into the ditch, think that
> not one cyclist would do it?


Just confriming really that there are morons in all walks of life
 
byron27 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Drs wrote:
> > "byron27" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:YeBqc.-
> > [email protected]:[email protected]
> > etserver.com
> > [...]
> > > 8) Be a deviant when the cops arent looking and a model citizen when
> > > they are. Traffic lights are for cars, not bikes (oh oh, i might
> > > have started something here!)

> > That's exactly the sort of antisocial behaviour that causes the rest of
> > us so much grief because we cop the backlash.

>
>
>
> mmmmm..... i dont know about that. I dont make any excuses for what i
> did when i was a courier and i know i broke the law. There are
> reasons for what i did and if you like i can go through them all.
> Essentially the faster i cut through the city the more coin i
> made.


well thank goodness every single road user does not adpat the
philosophy of lawlessness for the "more coin".

[crock of **** and made excues after you said I dont make excuses
snipped]
 
byron27 wrote:

> wrote:
> > Oh no, here we go again.
> > DaveB

>
>
>
> i agree, this isnt going to go anywhere.
>
> Lets talk about bike related things again....
>
> anyone seen the new White Industries Eric's Eccentric ENO single speed
> hub yet?. Means you can use a single speed (fixie?) on a bike with
> vertical dropouts. Very interesting
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/reviews/white_ind_eno_-
> eccentric_hub
>
>
>
> --
>
>


I don't know what the design and manufacturing costs would amount to,
but it seems a tad expensive given 1) the cheaper alternatives, and
2) the low-cost/no-cost 'essence' of SS

Still, I'd have one :)

--
Nick
 
Rickster wrote:
> End result is the same. Can we ask car drivers, ney, demand car drivers
> to respect the laws, particluarly the laws which are most relevent to
> cyclists, when a minority, but a very very visible one, refuse to ?
> I don't ask car drivers to obey the law. I ask them to behave in a
> safe and responsible way, and respect my safety. If they break a law
> and it doesn't affect anyone (and isn't likely to - not reckless etc),
> I care not.
> If you want to examine concepts of moral obligation further try reading:
> Isn't it time that we cyclists actually behave better than motorists,
> 'cos in the end car v bike is a no contest ?
> 'We' aren't two year olds fighting over cake, and 'we' don't behave
> collectively. Inter-vehicle behaviour is at its best when it is
> regulated by respect for the safety and wellbeing of others, not when
> read strictly legalistically. I would certainly advocate riding
> defensively because cyclists do come off second best in collisions with
> motorists, but that has nothing whatsoever with driver attitudes to
> cyclists who break the law.
> Some cyclists are totally reckless, others are 'safe' lawbreakers,
> still others ride totally within the law. People ride for all sorts of
> different reasons, with many different attitudes. There is no 'we'.
> Getting past the 'we' might be a good first step to adjusting the
> attitudes of the small minority of car drivers who hate 'us'. Cyclists
> are a cross section of the community.
> Note: Even if there are smaller identifiable 'we's, there's definitely
> no you and me buddy.
> Just confriming really that there are morons in all walks of life




I'm not sure who exactly has been 'confrimed' as a moron. Perhaps you
could explain? Is it bad to be confrimed? How is this different to
regular friming?

Other words to look up when your done correcting the error of your ways
with 'A Primer in Reason and Logic': 'ney' 'relevent'



--
 
Rickster wrote:
> Not what I here/see
> 'HEAR' you gimp... I mean, if you are going to go around insulting
> people (see 'moron' line at the bottom of this post'), you could at
> least demonstrate yourself to be a person of reasonable intellect.
> End result is the same. Can we ask car drivers, ney, demand car drivers
> to respect the laws, particluarly the laws which are most relevent to
> cyclists, when a minority, but a very very visible one, refuse to ?
> I don't ask car drivers to obey the law. I ask them to respect my safety
> and ability to travel on the road. If they break the law and it doesn't
> affect anyone (and isn't likely to - not reckless), I care not. They are
> risking penalties if they get caught, but it's not my problem and I
> don't waste my life worrying about it.
> Shockingly, I drive a car. I try to give cyclists a good amount of
> space when I pass them, like I do to pedestrians (even jaywalking ones)
> and slower cars. That's all I ask. Treat people decently, and mind your
> own business.
> Funnily enough, I don't fly into fits of anger when I see pedestrians
> cross against a red man, or cars roll through a stop sign. Furthermore I
> don't think either of these things tarnish the biped collective or the
> car driving community.
> Note for rickster: 'biped' means you have two feet. Bi - meaning two,
> ped - meaning foot. Why not look it up after you've looked up some of
> the words you already know but can't spell correctly.
> Isn't it time that we cyclists actually behave better than motorists,
> 'cos in the end car v bike is a no contest ?
> As Margaret Thatcher once said, 'there is no such thing as society'. I
> don't think this is strictly philosophically true, but I think it's
> interesting - there is no we. My behaviour is not the behaviour of
> anyone else but me, and it reflects only on me (and possibly, drawing a
> long bow, those who influence me and who brought me up).
> I do advocate riding defensively though - for the reason you express,
> bike riders lose in a crash. I even advocate riding defensively where it
> involves not standing on ones strict legal rights - eg not taking up a
> full lane where this will aggravate drivers or hold them up. Is this a
> bad idea in your opinion?
> Just confriming really that there are morons in all walks of life




I'm not sure who has been 'confrimed' as a moron... Could you explain
what 'confriming' is please? How is it different to regular 'friming'?
What about 'ney' (neigh?) and 'relevent' (see above)?

Note for Rickster: Although I've been pretty insulting, I haven't sworn
in my post, nor have I reproduced your smallminded language directed
towards byron27. Perhaps you could try running with this - you never
know who might read this stuff and get offended.



--
 
Cut and pasted from a post I made on the "do you obey traffic lights"
thread. Seemed relevant.

While I do occasionally roll though pedestian lights if I can see that
the peds using them have already crossed, I do largely stick to the
letter of the law. Now I consider myself to be a capable, intelligent
adult who can cross a road without endangering myself and others. The
problem with me ignoring the laws that I feel I'm bright enough to do
without is that almost EVERYONE who breaks a law like that feels that
they're doing so in a reasonable manner, including drink drivers, people
breaking the speed limit by a significant margin, people who decide that
they should be entitled to take the law into their own hands and beat
the snot out of someone else etc etc. Clearly, there's a good portion of
the population that's NOT capable of thinking for themselves in many
circumstances. If I break the law, regardless, of how careful and
capable I may be, then why shouldn't they? Your judgement of your own
capability is far from objective. So I follow the law because I expect
others to. Incidentally, this is why I support gun control. You and I
might be responsible enough to own a firearm and never use it in an
inappropriate manner, but take a walk around your local shopping mall
and ask yourself if you really want everyone in there armed... </rant>



--
 
>Originally posted by Nickzx6r re: ENO I don't know what the design and
>manufacturing costs would amount to, but it seems a tad expensive given
>1) the cheaper alternatives, and


Problem is, the cheaper alternatives often don't work as well. The
eccentric hub is a much nicer fix (it's still a fix though) than a chain
tensioner or dropout filing, for example.

>2) the low-cost/no-cost 'essence' of SS


Meh.. you should see what some of the yanks are spending on their SS's.
Have a read of the mtbr SS forum! :)

It seems to work like this:
1) You hear about singlespeeds
2) You decide to build one on the cheap because you might not like it
3) You love it
4) You decide to build a "nice" singlespeed
5) You spend more money on your "nice" singlespeed than your
"good" bike!
6) You buy/build more singlespeeds...
7) ...then you discover fixies...

hippy



--
 
"Roadie_scum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[...]

> And as for being a courier... I'm with byron on this, you don't know
> until you've ridden a (40) mile(s) in our rain soaked, road gritty,
> worn out shoes.


Just what is it I supposedly don't know? The point is that Byron27 reckons
it's OK to ignore the law whenever you feel like it. I don't give a flying
**** about the conditions of being a bike courier. It's nothing to do with
anything. It's like truckies saying it's OK to take amphetamines to stay
awake whilst they speed to meet their deadlines. It isn't OK for them and
it isn't OK for bike couriers either. If you don't like the law then write
a letter to your local MP but don't try to pretend you have some special
dispensation to pick and choose when you'll bother obeying the law because
you don't.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 
Roadie_scum <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Rickster wrote:
> > End result is the same. Can we ask car drivers, ney, demand car drivers
> > to respect the laws, particluarly the laws which are most relevent to
> > cyclists, when a minority, but a very very visible one, refuse to ?
> > I don't ask car drivers to obey the law. I ask them to behave in a
> > safe and responsible way, and respect my safety. If they break a law
> > and it doesn't affect anyone (and isn't likely to - not reckless etc),
> > I care not.
> > If you want to examine concepts of moral obligation further try reading:
> > Isn't it time that we cyclists actually behave better than motorists,
> > 'cos in the end car v bike is a no contest ?
> > 'We' aren't two year olds fighting over cake, and 'we' don't behave
> > collectively. Inter-vehicle behaviour is at its best when it is
> > regulated by respect for the safety and wellbeing of others, not when
> > read strictly legalistically. I would certainly advocate riding
> > defensively because cyclists do come off second best in collisions with
> > motorists, but that has nothing whatsoever with driver attitudes to
> > cyclists who break the law.
> > Some cyclists are totally reckless, others are 'safe' lawbreakers,
> > still others ride totally within the law. People ride for all sorts of
> > different reasons, with many different attitudes. There is no 'we'.
> > Getting past the 'we' might be a good first step to adjusting the
> > attitudes of the small minority of car drivers who hate 'us'. Cyclists
> > are a cross section of the community.
> > Note: Even if there are smaller identifiable 'we's, there's definitely
> > no you and me buddy.
> > Just confriming really that there are morons in all walks of life

>
>
>
> I'm not sure who exactly has been 'confrimed' as a moron. Perhaps you
> could explain? Is it bad to be confrimed? How is this different to
> regular friming?
>


ooooh, a spelling mistake, you really nailed me
> Other words to look up when your done correcting the error of your ways
> with 'A Primer in Reason and Logic': 'ney' 'relevent'
>
>


WTF ? Got anything to add to this debate or are you Dr Spellcheck ?
 
Roadie_scum <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Rickster wrote:
>[snip]


> I'm not sure who has been 'confrimed' as a moron... Could you explain
> what 'confriming' is please? How is it different to regular 'friming'?
> What about 'ney' (neigh?) and 'relevent' (see above)?
>
> Note for Rickster: Although I've been pretty insulting, I haven't sworn
> in my post, nor have I reproduced your smallminded language directed
> towards byron27. Perhaps you could try running with this - you never
> know who might read this stuff and get offended.
>


Mr Scum, I don't think you know who you are responding too, 'cos there
is some serious mix up in the quotes here.

And you pull me up on spelling mistakes ? Sure sign of the beaten.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
hippy <[email protected]> wrote:

> It seems to work like this:
> 1) You hear about singlespeeds
> 2) You decide to build one on the cheap because you might not like it
> 3) You love it
> 4) You decide to build a "nice" singlespeed
> 5) You spend more money on your "nice" singlespeed than your
> "good" bike!
> 6) You buy/build more singlespeeds...
> 7) ...then you discover fixies...


8) And then you have one of those light-bulb monets, where you realise
why someone invented the derailleur...

--
Shane Stanley