booze again

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

I'd liken it to my attitude towards suicide. By default, if someone
tells me they want to kill themselves, I am going to try to talk them
out of it. Because I think it is usually, and almost always, a very
bad decision. On the other hand, in *some* cases, during the course of
conversation, I might become convinced it was best for *that* person
and come to support them.

But WLS has an up side. Most of us probably don't think that way of
suicide, except in certain dire cases.

Quoted message said:

As for me "taking it upon myself" to discuss other people's
decisions... I do so when they tell me about it and/or ask my advice.
If they don't want my advice, they don't have to talk to me. If they
do talk to me, they get my advice.

I wasn't suggesting that you have no right to discuss other people's
decisions at all, there's nothing wrong with it. I responded to your
strong admonitions. I did say that the presumption you base your strong
advice/recommendations on is that you know the other person, their needs
and their risk tolerances better than they do. That they are less
qualified than you to come to a sensible choice because it's not the one
you would've made.

Quoted message said:

My attitude towards WLS is pretty irrelevant here.

But it's an interesting discussion, in which you've made some very
strong statements that others, including me, chose to respond to.
Nuthin' wrong with that, right?

Quoted message said:

I've been posting
here for... well, at least 6 or 7 years.

I've always enjoyed your posts and found them interesting, informative,
well intentioned.

I've never bought it up. No

Quoted message said:

one's ever asked my advice. That was my point in the first place...
that what someone does to lose weight is none of our business to
criticize while they are happy with their results.

I agree.

Quoted message said:

I just don't see the *point* in telling someone that what they're doing
is "wrong" if they're happy with their results, just cause you don't
like how they did it. Which is why I've *never* given Laureen any [censored]
- she *does* get to make the choice she thinks is best for her. I
happen to disagree with her choice, but it doesn't make any difference
because it's her life, not mine.

I understand that you were expressing a point of view about the
procedure in general. She's heard it with equanimity from a lot of
folks, the thoughtful ones like you.

Quoted message said:

I'm unsure how you get "presumptuous" out of this attitude. I have
this attitude towards WLS and I have it towards alcohol and I have it
towards sugar alcohols and frankenfoods and pretty much all the
"controversial" topics we discuss here... namely, whatever works for
the person towards their goals is fine, even if it isn't my choice...
though I think each of these things is bad and don't choose them for
myself.

I infer it from your strong language with no leeway; that if someone you
knew were considering it, you'd do everything to talk them out of it.
To me, that presumes that you know better, not having walked in their
shoes. I think your statement about morbid obesity being healthier than
post op WLS leaves no room for someone else's thoughtful evaluation of
the wisdom of the procedure.

BTW, I used the term literally in context, not at all as a character
slam. Situation specific and as a point of discussion. If I didn't
respect you, we wouldn't be having the conversation.

Quoted message said:

A *lot* of newbies on here have great weight loss for a period of time,
because they are so overweight to begin with that simply going on
low-carb causes a large loss. Then when they stall, people point out
to them which things might cause stalls, or that they might need to
count calories as well as carbs, or that they might need to add
exercise.. IMO, it's premature to offer advice prior to the point that
what they're doing is continuing to work for them though.

I think the best we can do is share experiences, make observations and
let each person take what they can or will from it.

Quoted message said:

The OP is drinking what would be a *huge* amount for me and losing at a
rate he's happy with. Thus... I don't see a "problem."

I guess I think that amount of alcohol is a problem. Just not my
problem, nor my job to tell him what to do. OTOH, I've seen similar
kinds of Tough Love responses to nutrition bars in the past, too. :-)

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

It's like this became some fundamentalist, puritan newsgroup
somewhere... drinking is bad, bad, bad. It's *always* bad, it feels
good, so it *must* be bad.

Sometimes I finish a whole bottle of red wine in one month.

Quoted message said:

Next up... can you be successful on low carb while still having sex?

Jeez, I hope so!

Quoted message said:

And... can you *really* be healthy if you dance to rock-and-roll?

Can you be healthy if you *don't?*

Quoted message said:

And can italian sausage soup *really* be healthy when it tastes so
darned good?

Mine wasn't so great. Maybe my onions weren't browned enough?

Susan

Susan said:

Mine wasn't so great. Maybe my onions weren't browned enough?

You want to cook them until carmelized.

But then... you have to cook the overall soup long enough too, at least
4 hours, if not more, so the sausage flavor totally permeates the whole
thing.

Or maybe you just don't happen to like it.

[email hidden] wrote:
:: Carmen wrote:
::
::: I'm a lightweight when it comes to alcohol too. I have a couple of
::: glasses of wine with my DH and my mother and father in law when they
::: come stay with us for the holidays every year. :-) As luck would
::: have it the bottle we opened this year was a lovely German wine
::: we'd bought the year before. We liked it so much we decided to go
::: buy some more to put away and to send some home with the in-laws.
::: Turns out that our chance purchase (we know squat about wine, it
::: was a luck of the draw buy) was a very limited availability vintage
::: year run (or whatever it's called) from that winery and there was
::: no more to be had. Figures. Aargh!
::
:: One night, my husband was having a few beers and listening to music
:: and I decided to join him. We got carried away and drank for hours
:: and hours. I catch a buzz off of a single beer, and had 6 that
:: night over the course of 4 or 5 hours, jamming and listening to
:: music. First time we ever got buzzed together in 5 years of
:: marriage!
::
:: Then.. I decided to try these newfangled "boxed" wines. I rarely buy
:: wine becuase there's simply no chance I'll finish a bottle before it
:: goes bad, but these boxed wines stay good for weeks and weeks. I
:: generally have a glass of wine when I eat out and I thought it'd be
:: nice to do at home now and then. So... a box is equivalent to 3
:: bottles of wine. Night I opened it, my daughter was over, and... we
:: started listening to music together and jamming. And we drank like
:: 2/3rds of the box before we were done! Apparently, music is a bad
:: influence on me. 😉
::
:: And then, I went to AR to build a house for an online friend, sort of
:: an unofficial Habitat-for-Humanity kinda deal, we camped out and
:: built this small house for her (she's disabled and had just enough $
:: for materials). And during the ten days or so we were there, one
:: night one of the locals opened a bottle of white wine and offered me
:: a glass... and there I went again.
::
:: I don't think I've gotten buzzed three times in the same month in
:: over a couple decades! It was a wild-and-crazy month for me!

What does jamming mean? I seem to remember that term from 25 years ago....

On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:51:29 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And can italian sausage soup *really* be healthy when it tastes so
darned good?

Mine wasn't so great. Maybe my onions weren't browned enough?

Susan

Jeez...I didn't think it was possible for Italian sausage soup to be
not good! What did you put in it?

Jo Anne

x-no-archive: yes

Jo Anne Slaven said:

On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:51:29 -0400, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jeez...I didn't think it was possible for Italian sausage soup to be
not good! What did you put in it?

Jo Anne

I followed the recipe as first offered. I think my onions may've not
carmelized enough. I used high quality sausages, stock, etc. It was
thin, greasy on top (I skimmed it like crazy) and I think I must've
screwed up royally.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

Susan said:

Mine wasn't so great. Maybe my onions weren't browned enough?

You want to cook them until carmelized.

But then... you have to cook the overall soup long enough too, at least
4 hours, if not more, so the sausage flavor totally permeates the whole
thing.

Or maybe you just don't happen to like it.

I dunno, it sounds like something I'd like. I may've just messed up. I
cooked it forever in a Le Creuset pot. I'll try once more next winter.

Susan

DisplayName said:

Laureen,
I have thick skin, particularly around the middle🙂 Stated explicitly, I
simply want to be a smaller alcoholic. That now said, please understand I am
only sharing my experiences for the benefit of those interested and my own.
I have not intentionally "touted" consumption nor do I recommend it. I am
sorry if my posts have lead anyone to this impression. Weighing, measuring,
reviewing, and "posting this [censored]" has helped me stay focused. Your
responses and those of others may be enlightening to some watching the
thread. I have been aware of just about everything anyone ever posted in
response to it. Anyway, I know of no means to maintain my position so as to
preempt the pitfall advisements and flames. I post in peace.
Jimmy

Hi Jimmy,
There's a lot to be said for honesty. You definitely are an honest
person. :-) Since the alcohol is staying in your life at present it'd
be a really good idea to ensure that your nutritional needs are being
met with the rest of your caloric intake. I'd suggest adding a good
multivitamin to start. This link is to a comparison of different
multis, inclusive of relative cost, that have fairly wide availability
across North America:
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/4_00/multivsmulti.html
Besides a multivitamin, perhaps a review of what you're *eating* would
be more useful. If you posted that people could help you troubleshoot
things you may be willing to change. Make sense?

Carmen

Quoted message said:

"Laureen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One other thing. it is not like I called Displayname an alcoholic,
though a couple of you are acting like I said that by your tone in the
posts. That woud be nasty, vile, and totally uncalled for. I simply
asked a question.

Some of you know me well enough to know that the person who lives in a
glass house shouldnt throw stones, which is me.

I am also not against drinking in moderation. I have never been much of
a drinker but after hearing how a WLS patient gets drunk so fast, I had
to see for myself. I have found that there really is no drinking in
moderation for a WLS patient. One small half a glass of wine and I am
[censored] faced nowadays. I do on occasion indulge myself but only in the
company of someone who can look out for me for the brief time I am
smashed. GASP! Its really is no fun to drink now as one doesnt get the
warm fuzzies, they get stink ass drunk alomost immediately. There is no
happy medium with hard liquor at all. It takesexactly 3 minutes to get
drunk with a half shot of Tequila and 1/2 hour to sober up. One
metabolizes alcohol fast. Its a weird life now. One light beer over a
couple of hours appears social but keeps me sober I have found.
Laureen

DisplayName said:

I sure drink a lot.

Have you tried this recipe? Its quicker and easier and I think it's
delicious, my non LC SO loves it, too. I always use the black soy beans.

Sausage Soup Olé by MarieAnn

1 lb. smoked sausage (cut in 1 in. slices, or diced, as you prefer) 12
1 can (14-15 oz.) stewed tomatoes 27-4=23
1 can (14-15 oz.) sliced or diced tomatoes in juice 14
1 can (15-16 oz.) pinto beans, undrained 65-20=45 You can use black soy
beans and reduce the carbs here to 1 net carb..
1 can(14 oz.) chicken broth
1/2 of a medium head of cabbage, chopped fairly large 25-10=15
1 Tbs. chili powder 4-3=1
[2 tsp. sugar or substitute (8 if used)]
1 jalapeno pepper, seeded and minced 0
1 medium size onion,chopped 9-2=7
2 cloves garlic, minced 1

TOTAL 168-39=129, makes approx 3 quarts, 6 2-cup servings. Per serving
426 cals, 29 g fat, 21 net carbs-14 with the soy beans, 17 g protein.

Put all ingredients in soup pot. This will look to thick to be soup, but
will become less thick as cabbage cooks down. Lower heat and simmer from 30
to 60 minutes, depending on how soft you prefer your cabbage.

In news:[email hidden],
Susan <[email hidden]> stated

| I followed the recipe as first offered. I think my onions may've not
| carmelized enough. I used high quality sausages, stock, etc. It was
| thin, greasy on top (I skimmed it like crazy) and I think I must've
| screwed up royally.
|
| Susan

x-no-archive: yes

FOB said:

Have you tried this recipe? Its quicker and easier and I think it's
delicious, my non LC SO loves it, too. I always use the black soy beans.

Sausage Soup Olé by MarieAnn

1 lb. smoked sausage (cut in 1 in. slices, or diced, as you prefer) 12
1 can (14-15 oz.) stewed tomatoes 27-4=23
1 can (14-15 oz.) sliced or diced tomatoes in juice 14
1 can (15-16 oz.) pinto beans, undrained 65-20=45 You can use black soy
beans and reduce the carbs here to 1 net carb..
1 can(14 oz.) chicken broth
1/2 of a medium head of cabbage, chopped fairly large 25-10=15
1 Tbs. chili powder 4-3=1
[2 tsp. sugar or substitute (8 if used)]
1 jalapeno pepper, seeded and minced 0
1 medium size onion,chopped 9-2=7
2 cloves garlic, minced 1

TOTAL 168-39=129, makes approx 3 quarts, 6 2-cup servings. Per serving
426 cals, 29 g fat, 21 net carbs-14 with the soy beans, 17 g protein.

Put all ingredients in soup pot. This will look to thick to be soup, but
will become less thick as cabbage cooks down. Lower heat and simmer from 30
to 60 minutes, depending on how soft you prefer your cabbage.

No, but I'll hang onto it til winter.

I think Hannah's original recipe looked great. That and the rave
reviews have me convinced I let my mind wander and just screwed it up
somehow.

Yours looks very good, too. When I screw it up, I'll be sure to let you
know, too. ;-)

Susan

Because food contains too many carbs, i stopped eating food a few
weeks ago. I only drink booze now. That way I can get my vytaminz
and still feel good without no carbs. I feel great almost all the
time now and if i start to feel bad i just drink more booze and all
the nutrichun m.akes me feel good agin.

Carmen said:

DisplayName said:

Laureen,
I have thick skin, particularly around the middle🙂 Stated explicitly, I
simply want to be a smaller alcoholic. That now said, please understand I am
only sharing my experiences for the benefit of those interested and my own.
I have not intentionally "touted" consumption nor do I recommend it. I am
sorry if my posts have lead anyone to this impression. Weighing, measuring,
reviewing, and "posting this [censored]" has helped me stay focused. Your
responses and those of others may be enlightening to some watching the
thread. I have been aware of just about everything anyone ever posted in
response to it. Anyway, I know of no means to maintain my position so as to
preempt the pitfall advisements and flames. I post in peace.
Jimmy

Hi Jimmy,
There's a lot to be said for honesty. You definitely are an honest
person. :-) Since the alcohol is staying in your life at present it'd
be a really good idea to ensure that your nutritional needs are being
met with the rest of your caloric intake. I'd suggest adding a good
multivitamin to start. This link is to a comparison of different
multis, inclusive of relative cost, that have fairly wide availability
across North America:
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/4_00/multivsmulti.html
Besides a multivitamin, perhaps a review of what you're *eating* would
be more useful. If you posted that people could help you troubleshoot
things you may be willing to change. Make sense?

Carmen

Quoted message said:

"Laureen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One other thing. it is not like I called Displayname an alcoholic,
though a couple of you are acting like I said that by your tone in the
posts. That woud be nasty, vile, and totally uncalled for. I simply
asked a question.

Some of you know me well enough to know that the person who lives in a
glass house shouldnt throw stones, which is me.

I am also not against drinking in moderation. I have never been much of
a drinker but after hearing how a WLS patient gets drunk so fast, I had
to see for myself. I have found that there really is no drinking in
moderation for a WLS patient. One small half a glass of wine and I am
[censored] faced nowadays. I do on occasion indulge myself but only in the
company of someone who can look out for me for the brief time I am
smashed. GASP! Its really is no fun to drink now as one doesnt get the
warm fuzzies, they get stink ass drunk alomost immediately. There is no
happy medium with hard liquor at all. It takesexactly 3 minutes to get
drunk with a half shot of Tequila and 1/2 hour to sober up. One
metabolizes alcohol fast. Its a weird life now. One light beer over a
couple of hours appears social but keeps me sober I have found.
Laureen

DisplayName wrote:

> I sure drink a lot.

Roger Zoul said:

What does jamming mean? I seem to remember that term from 25 years ago....

Mostly my husband plays drums, me and my daughter sing. We play music
*really* loud and do our thing.

Basically... the difference betwene now and 25 years ago is we live in
the country and our only neighbors are cows so they don't complain
about noise even if we're jamming at 3 AM at insane decibel levels
(necessary when playing drums to hear the music over it). 😉

We have a kewl setup in the living room... computer set up just for
music with bazillions of songs, a stereo system with tons of CDs, tapes
and even a few records, a drum set, a piano and a guitar. We *like*
jamming quite a bit here.