**** Breaking News: Hamilton Tested Positive? ***



meehs said:
it has been reported that he had been warned on two previous occasions that his samples had displayed some mysterious results and it becomes plainly obvious (and unfortunate) that there's something very fishy going on. We'll see how it pans-out.

I've heard this mentioned a couple of times elsewhere about Tyler having been previously warned. Do you have the specifics on that. I wonder if you can share them with us. I am very interested in exactly what events Tyler had suspicious test results. I think it would help us to understand better what's going on with him.

Thanks! By the way, if Tyler had suspected tampering, all he would have had to do would have been to get a test again right after the Vuelta B result became known. Then he would have been able to say, "hey, my result is negative. That makes a true positive highly unlikely in the Vuelta due to the rate of decay of the suspect red blood cells--90 to 120 days." That he didn't do this makes his story unbelievable.
 
gntlmn said:
I've heard this mentioned a couple of times elsewhere about Tyler having been previously warned. Do you have the specifics on that. I wonder if you can share them with us. I am very interested in exactly what events Tyler had suspicious test results. I think it would help us to understand better what's going on with him.

Thanks! By the way, if Tyler had suspected tampering, all he would have had to do would have been to get a test again right after the Vuelta B result became known. Then he would have been able to say, "hey, my result is negative. That makes a true positive highly unlikely in the Vuelta due to the rate of decay of the suspect red blood cells--90 to 120 days." That he didn't do this makes his story unbelievable.
Evidently it was mentioned in L'Equipe on 9-23 or 9-24
It was passed along in the following article
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,3253,s1-10407,00.html?category_id=441
In its September 23 edition, the French sports daily l'Equipe reported that the UCI sent letters of notification to Hamilton after both the Tour de Romandie (which he won) and the Dauphine Libere (where he was a close second to Iban Mayo), warning him of what l'Equipe called "strange fluctuations" in certain values of his blood tests.
It was also mentioned on the website cycling4all.com- a website that tends to have the latest most accurate transfer news etc.
According to L'Equipe Tyler Hamilton (Usa) = Phonak was already warned ("yellow card") by the Medical Committee of the UCI after his final victory in the Tour de Romadie. They told him already about "strange fluctuations" in his blood-values.
Other than these two articles I have heard nothing more of this, which I find surprising. I am not sure how sensationlistic L'equipe tends to be as I am barely able to read french. Maybe someone could clue us in.
 
Perro Loco said:
Evidently it was mentioned in L'Equipe on 9-23 or 9-24
It was passed along in the following article
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,3253,s1-10407,00.html?category_id=441
It was also mentioned on the website cycling4all.com- a website that tends to have the latest most accurate transfer news etc.
Other than these two articles I have heard nothing more of this, which I find surprising. I am not sure how sensationlistic L'equipe tends to be as I am barely able to read french. Maybe someone could clue us in.

Yeah, the only source I would've been able to point to is the bicycling.com article. And I think that it was already linked earlier in this thread. So Perro Loco has done better than I would've been able to do in sighting the source.
 
Perro Loco said:
Evidently it was mentioned in L'Equipe on 9-23 or 9-24
It was passed along in the following article
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,3253,s1-10407,00.html?category_id=441
It was also mentioned on the website cycling4all.com- a website that tends to have the latest most accurate transfer news etc.
Other than these two articles I have heard nothing more of this, which I find surprising. I am not sure how sensationlistic L'equipe tends to be as I am barely able to read french. Maybe someone could clue us in.

It sounds like Hamilton was on something when he went up Dauphine Libere. The press said that Armstrong had failed only a short time before the Tour de France on that mountain, but his time was his best ever. That just tells you something about Mayo's and Hamilton's performance that day, having finished 1, 2 and considerably ahead of Lance. It's interesting that the both of them performed miserably at the TdF. I couldn't figure out at the time how Hamilton had managed to pull off such a strong performance up DL. Now I think I know why.
 
gntlmn said:
It sounds like Hamilton was on something when he went up Dauphine Libere. The press said that Armstrong had failed only a short time before the Tour de France on that mountain, but his time was his best ever. That just tells you something about Mayo's and Hamilton's performance that day, having finished 1, 2 and considerably ahead of Lance. It's interesting that the both of them performed miserably at the TdF. I couldn't figure out at the time how Hamilton had managed to pull off such a strong performance up DL. Now I think I know why.

I think Lance knew that you didn't have to peak until about 10 days into the Tour. I think he wasn't interested in peaking in Dauphine. He probably did his final "tune-up" training after the Dauphine. Look at Basso, he wasn't at his peak either.
 
Business as usual for Tyler. Its almost like nothing happened.

Hamilton at Interbike
Compex Technologies, designer and manufacturer of electro-muscle stimulation sports and fitness products, announced that 2004 Olympic champion Tyler Hamilton is endorsing the company's products. Hamilton begins his promotion activities for Compex this week with appearances at 2004 Interbike, North America's largest cycling trade show, in Las Vegas.
I didn't realize that getting caught cheating was so lucrative. Can someone put me in contact with their EPO supplier? I would like to get started on my doping program right away!

Here are some photos of Tyler at Interbike:

Still a hit with the ladies

Another delusional female fan, the cornerstone of Tyler's fanbase.

A line up of more delusional fans, including some delusional men! (click to enlarge and widen the photo)
 
I am still very sceptical about that L'equipe article. First off, it says that Tyler was warned about blood abnormalities. But my understanding is that the test that caught Tyler was only first used at the Olympics. So how were any abnormalities detected at these earlier events? Unless the abnormalities were in relation to other doping testing procedures??

Also, the wording of that one article seemed a little suspicious. Since when is the UCI "yellow carding" cyclists?! Like its a football game! That made me laugh. The whole wording and scenario just seems odd to me.
 
Saucy said:
I am still very sceptical about that L'equipe article. First off, it says that Tyler was warned about blood abnormalities. But my understanding is that the test that caught Tyler was only first used at the Olympics. So how were any abnormalities detected at these earlier events? Unless the abnormalities were in relation to other doping testing procedures??

Also, the wording of that one article seemed a little suspicious. Since when is the UCI "yellow carding" cyclists?! Like its a football game! That made me laugh. The whole wording and scenario just seems odd to me.
I wish someone could report if this article exists and provide at least a loose translation. Both sources- Joe Lindsay and Cycling4all -have been very reliable in the past. I think the yellow card wording was the reporters own interpitation- tying to sum it up in short order.
Regarding the testing, if this is true I suspect it had to do with tradional measuring of hematocrit and +/- reticulocytes. An increase in hematocrit over a week long race or significant differences in hematocrit from the tour of romadie and dauphine or big jumps in reticulocytes (young red blood cells).
 
Perro Loco said:
I wish someone could report if this article exists and provide at least a loose translation. Both sources- Joe Lindsay and Cycling4all -have been very reliable in the past. I think the yellow card wording was the reporters own interpitation- tying to sum it up in short order.
Regarding the testing, if this is true I suspect it had to do with tradional measuring of hematocrit and +/- reticulocytes. An increase in hematocrit over a week long race or significant differences in hematocrit from the tour of romadie and dauphine or big jumps in reticulocytes (young red blood cells).

Tyler wasn't accused of EPO he was accused of blood doping with another persons blood cells in the Olympics. THis involves transfusing red blood cells into your body from another person increasing your hematocrit. THey look for a wide variation of rbc's indicating a transfusion.
 
donhix1 said:
I think Lance knew that you didn't have to peak until about 10 days into the Tour. I think he wasn't interested in peaking in Dauphine. He probably did his final "tune-up" training after the Dauphine. Look at Basso, he wasn't at his peak either.

I think so too. In fact, I was a little worried that he was peaking too early because he did his best time up Dauphine. But he that only goes to show that he was in fabulous form for this year's tour. He was on the upswing. Mayo and Hamilton were both on their way down. It's kind of hard to see it until after the fact, but Armstrong didn't seem too worried to me about those guys.
 
Saucy said:
I am still very sceptical about that L'equipe article. First off, it says that Tyler was warned about blood abnormalities. But my understanding is that the test that caught Tyler was only first used at the Olympics. So how were any abnormalities detected at these earlier events? Unless the abnormalities were in relation to other doping testing procedures??

Also, the wording of that one article seemed a little suspicious. Since when is the UCI "yellow carding" cyclists?! Like its a football game! That made me laugh. The whole wording and scenario just seems odd to me.

It is within the UCI rules to give warnings as it is to give reprimands and suspensions.
 
Verbruggen, UCI confident in Hamilton case
UCI president Hein Verbruggen said he is confident doping charges leveled against Olympic time trial champion Tyler Hamilton will stand up against challenges in court.



UCI officials are largely keeping mum on the Hamilton case, fully expecting the high-profile case to be challenged to the Court of Arbitration in Sport. Disciplinary hearings against Hamilton could begin as soon as this month.

Verbruggen defended the use of a new testing method that can detect the presence of banned blood transfusions, which debuted at the Summer Olympic Games in Athens.

"The application of the test was validated by WADA," Verbruggen told VeloNews. "I'm confident the result will be in our favor."

Hamilton is facing up to a two-year ban after a backup test taken at the Vuelta a España confirmed an initial positive test that showed evidence of banned blood transfusions. Hamilton was allowed to keep his Olympic time trial gold medal despite failing an "A" sample after testers inadvertently placed second "B" blood samples in a deep freeze, rendering red blood cells unusable for follow-up tests.

Hamilton has vehemently denied he injected someone else's blood into his system and has promised to challenge the validity of the testing method to prove his innocence.

That's something Verbruggen said the UCI expects and even welcomes.

"It's a good thing that someone can challenge a test result. If the test conclusion is again confirmed, it's a good thing for the UCI and our test," Verbruggen continued. "If someone can prove their case, then that's good too because we don't want to be punishing innocent riders."

The case is now under the jurisdiction of USADA (U.S. Anti-Doping Agency), which will eventually decide Hamilton's fate.

According to Dr. Mario Zorzoli, head of medical at the UCI, cycling's governing body fully expects the case to be challenged because it's the first of its kind.

"We cannot provide any comments about this case," Zorzoli told VeloNews. "It's a first case and we had the experience with the first EPO tests that went to CAS. A lot of people have been making comments on the tests, and the validity, whatever else. We will keep a low profile and let the American federation at USADA do the hearings. We will see what happens after that."

In the coming weeks, USADA officials will consider the evidence in a review panel, which then makes a recommendation to either proceed with or drop the matter.

Traditionally, these panels include three members: one member chosen by the athlete; another chosen by USADA; and a third assigned by the American Arbitration Association - often on the recommendation of the other two panelists.

Over the course of the next several months, the panel will hold a hearing, review the evidence and issue a recommendation. If the panel recommends that sanctions be imposed, the athlete's final option is to take the case to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport for a last appeal.
 
Should the outcome be that Hamilton is determined to be guilty then the sport has lost perhaps the rider who most seemed like a sincere, brave, honest, eagle-scout of cycling. Any already tainted to believe that every or nearly every rider in the peloton is doping will have yet another medal of proof to add to their collection. Of course this isn't good for cycling but for the egos of those, most of whom have already proclaimed Tyler guilty, who thrive on every doping scandal as though it were a personal medal, it will be another notch of vindication in their bedposts.

While the sport certainly needs some cleaning, finding joy and personal elation through the fall of a cycling icon seems to place one's own desire to be proven correct above what's good for cycling. Assuming he's innocent, I'd prefer that Hamilton be aquitted due to an error in the tests or a reasonable and confirmed explanation for the positives, if indeed such explanation can exist. That's not to say that I want him aquitted if he truly is guilty, just that I think what's best for cycling is best for the whole of cycling fans. Those who want him to be guilty are obviously too concerned with their own egos to be true fans of cycling or anything else except the image in their mirror.

The existence of those who actually want Hamilton to be guilty seems obvious as I have read through these posts. Some are already proclaiming him to be guilty and furthermore have shown the belief in something akin to having won something. What they think they've won I'm not sure. If he's guilty I find it to be a huge loss for cycling. From what I've read, (and yes, I skipped several more recent pages), his guilt has not yet been confirmed. Those serving as spokesmen for the testing bodies seem to have the good sense to refrain from making premature comments either confirming or denying their belief of his guilt. It's sad that many, more interested in their own affirmation than the good of the sport, have failed to show equal prudence. Such need to be right, regardless of the consequences is making it more and more difficult for anyone to be tried fairly in this media-linked world. In high-profile cases, the public's verdict has been returned long before the first hearing.
 
I am still quite confused by many of the posts on this issue.

Surely the situation is that he has been found guilty in three seperate tests. Whilst Tyler seems to be contesting this decision and is likely to appeal it there isn't some impending decision or declaration on his guilt or innocence - I just don't understand this whole 'rushing to judgement' line. He has been found guilty already.

And as a seperate point of clarification I'm certainly not wishing him guilty but at the same time I'm not wishing him innocent - three postitive tests seems pretty conclusive to me of cheating and I've got no experience or supportablel reason to doubt the validity of the tests - that for more qualified folk than myself.
 
James Felstead said:
I just don't understand this whole 'rushing to judgement' line. He has been found guilty already.
Technically. I think you are wrong. He will have been found guilty when the appeals process is over.

That is how USADA, WADA, and UCI work, right?
 
right - so what is he appealing then? If a decision hasn't been made surely it can't be appealed? I would have thought the word itself was a bit of a giveaway.

I'd be interested to know on what 'technical' grounds I was wrong? Is this something you have specialised knowledge in? From my fairly limited understanding of the UCI's rules he's been found in breach of their rules having failed three tests for doping control with a fourth being inadmissible due to the way it was handled.

It's strange because you seem so sure I'm wrong but then don't seem too sure of the exact process?
 
James Felstead said:
right - so what is he appealing then? If a decision hasn't been made surely it can't be appealed? I would have thought the word itself was a bit of a giveaway.

I'd be interested to know on what 'technical' grounds I was wrong? Is this something you have specialised knowledge in? From my fairly limited understanding of the UCI's rules he's been found in breach of their rules having failed three tests for doping control with a fourth being inadmissible due to the way it was handled.

It's strange because you seem so sure I'm wrong but then don't seem too sure of the exact process?
I certainly didn't mean to sound like an authority on the subtletes (sp?) of UCI rules... Sorry.

My understanding (quite possibly flawed) is that he is in a state of limbo right now where he is tentatively guilty, he will be officially guilty after his appeal fails.

The only analogy I can come up with is that they usually don't imprison you for a crime until after the appeals are over.

I may be wrong, I guess he could be in the "guilty but not yet punished phase"... I didn't mean to come off as being so sure you were wrong (hense the "I think"), sorry.
 
gntlmn said:
Yes, you do mention a few riders, and it seems that the topic has now changed from all riders, which was my focus, to top riders, which is now your focus. Well, if some riders are doping and that's the reason why they are top riders, perhaps that would be true, that top riders are more likely to be dopers than other riders. But then you have to try to define what a top rider is.

I, frankly, have not considered Tyler to be anywhere near the level of cyclist that Lance Armstrong is. He seems to do very well on one day, and then the next day might fall flat on his face. Take the Vuelta TT that he won as a result. The very next day, he lost more than 10 minutes to the stage winner on the mountain stage. And Tyler is not supposed to be a bad climber. Something was amiss. His performance in the Tour de France was poor too, and then he goes on to win the TT at the Olympics. I wouldn't be too surprised if this turns out to be a true positive for him (ie, really did blood dope). But Tyler is one rider. There are many.

It seems like riders who dope often turn out to have done so when they are on the verge of retirement. They are faced with either retiring due to continued sub par performance, or they resort to drugs/doping. Tyler is one. Riis is another, Pantani, the list goes on. These riders may not have doped during their primes, but turn to it as a last resort.

And yes, I think EPO was getting used a lot more in the late 90's than it is now that the testing has improved. But there really are a lot of riders out there. I'd like to know exactly how many pro riders there are in the world now. That would be an interesting number. I think it's pretty high.
Pantani never testing positive for a banned substance! He was a great climber from the moment he came on the scene as a youth. See my discussion under best tour de france climber topic.
 
tamman2000 said:
I certainly didn't mean to sound like an authority on the subtletes (sp?) of UCI rules... Sorry.

My understanding (quite possibly flawed) is that he is in a state of limbo right now where he is tentatively guilty, he will be officially guilty after his appeal fails.

The only analogy I can come up with is that they usually don't imprison you for a crime until after the appeals are over.

I may be wrong, I guess he could be in the "guilty but not yet punished phase"... I didn't mean to come off as being so sure you were wrong (hense the "I think"), sorry.

The word "guilty" does not apply. He is in breach of the rules. He has been served with an infraction notice for the violation of the rules.

His national federation, in this case it is USADA, will convene a hearing to impose sanctions after reviewing the evidence. TH has a right to enter a defence at these proceedings and to have a fair hearing. If he is not successful in his defence he can appeal to the International Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS).

Any sanctions, if imposed, would not apply until after his right to appeal has lapsed or until the appeal has been determined.