A
A Muzi
Guest
>>>>> Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
>>>>>> self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
>>>>>> heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
>>>>>> how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
>>>>>> intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
>>>>>> it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
>>>>>> bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
>>>>>> finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
>>>>>> cared for it could last a long time as well.
>>>> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
>>>>> be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.
>>>>> Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
>>>>> scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
>>>>> specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.
>>> Dan Becker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
>>>> Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
>>>> about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
>>>> to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
>>>> one training trip to Ghana.
>>>> http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
>>>> ojectid=598
>>>> http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html
>>>> http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm
>> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
>>> built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
>>> guessed.
>>>
>>> Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
>>> the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
>>> said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
>>> Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
>>> kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
>>> about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
>>> the local market.
>>> But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
>>> parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
>>> imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
>>> could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
>>> which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.
> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> Which could be a broken, bent, or otherwise unuseable frame. Lots of
>> THEM in Africa. (but then, a lot of them are the flimsy "flying
>> pigeons" and their ilk from China - and their components may not be
>> worth scavenging.
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Possibly, but I'm pretty sure most of the donor-bikes start with useable
> frames. If they didn't, it would be a waste of space to ship them.
>
> Well, maybe not. The article mentions local Ghanian import duties which
> cause complete bikes to be cheaper to import than parts. Nonetheless,
> that's an artifact of the local tax system, not an inherent problem.
>
> What I'm getting at is there's a large chance that by revolutionizing
> the bicycle frame, they're solving the non-problem.
Uh, US duties run about 5.5% for complete bikes, often 14% for parts
(many esoteric exceptions including a duty on tubulars, which are not
made here. Wonder why rings are pricey? Chainrings are 'parts' @14%,
cranksets duty free)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>>>> It really isn't about the money. Its about the desire to do it one's
>>>>>> self and the satisfaction that comes with it. Yeah it likely will be
>>>>>> heavier. I recently read an article that someone was teaching people
>>>>>> how to build bikes out of bamboo in 3rd world countries. The idea
>>>>>> intrigued me. First bamboo is really very strong for its weight but
>>>>>> it has some flex in it that would give it at least some give for the
>>>>>> bumps in the road. I already have woodworking experience. I could be
>>>>>> finished nice to look nice as well and if it was properly sealed and
>>>>>> cared for it could last a long time as well.
>>>> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Bamboo?! Really?!? I've seen bike-show bikes made out of it, but I would
>>>>> be really leery about routinely building frames out of it.
>>>>> Aside from the structural considerations, which may or may not be as
>>>>> scary as I fear, the frame tubes are probably the cheapest, least
>>>>> specialized part of a bicycle, third-world-wise.
>>> Dan Becker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The referenced article is probably the one in the October 2007
>>>> Bicycling magazine. It doesn't appear to be on their website yet. It is
>>>> about Craig Calfee's collaboration with a Columbia University program
>>>> to show people in Africa how to build cargo bikes from bamboo. Has made
>>>> one training trip to Ghana.
>>>> http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/eidirectory/displayproject.php?pr
>>>> ojectid=598
>>>> http://www.bamboobike.org/Home.html
>>>> http://www.calfeedesign.com/bamboo.htm
>> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Huh. It's clear I underestimated bamboo. Notably, Calfee says that a
>>> built frame weighs about 4 pounds, which is lighter than I would have
>>> guessed.
>>>
>>> Reading the bamboobike.org/Blog leads me to believe that my guess about
>>> the frame not being the problem was not that far off the mark. That
>>> said, the prototype is a semi-longbike design (basically, a lot like the
>>> Kona Ute, which is in turn a rendition-as-frame of the BikeXtra longbike
>>> kit. Kona aren't the only company doing a longbike this year: Surly is
>>> about to sell the Big Dummy), which seems like a practical design for
>>> the local market.
>>> But basically, the blog says that they're looking into the local Ghanian
>>> parts market, and you can either start with cheap and crappy new
>>> imported parts (cheap and crappy parts being all that the local market
>>> could afford, of course), or you can start from complete donor-bikes,
>>> which generally have a better parts mix, but also, ahem, include a frame.
> clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> Which could be a broken, bent, or otherwise unuseable frame. Lots of
>> THEM in Africa. (but then, a lot of them are the flimsy "flying
>> pigeons" and their ilk from China - and their components may not be
>> worth scavenging.
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Possibly, but I'm pretty sure most of the donor-bikes start with useable
> frames. If they didn't, it would be a waste of space to ship them.
>
> Well, maybe not. The article mentions local Ghanian import duties which
> cause complete bikes to be cheaper to import than parts. Nonetheless,
> that's an artifact of the local tax system, not an inherent problem.
>
> What I'm getting at is there's a large chance that by revolutionizing
> the bicycle frame, they're solving the non-problem.
Uh, US duties run about 5.5% for complete bikes, often 14% for parts
(many esoteric exceptions including a duty on tubulars, which are not
made here. Wonder why rings are pricey? Chainrings are 'parts' @14%,
cranksets duty free)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
