Does anyone know if these bike saddles are any good? I want to know thanks!
http://www.imaginegear.com/Cycling/c373210/
http://www.imaginegear.com/Cycling/c373210/
Chinese Carbon Frames
- Thread starter rparedes
- Start date
Your argument is speculative at best and non-sensical at worse.
No-brand:
Umm, this is the weakest part of your argument. I'm not all that concerned with brand names becaue 1) I'm over 20 and 2) I don't need a brand-name because I don't have a small...welll, nevermind.
No reputation:
This is actually false. When i was first considering, reluctantly, a clone frame I went in with there would be LOTS of negative reviews, horror stories, etc. What I found while researching was overwhelmingly favorable reviews with the occasional damaged frame. What I was not expecting was that the failure rate was on par with the name-brand frames. What I concluded on my own was that a good percentage of the name brand frames were doing everything in their power to "show" a failure was not "covered by warranty." With the chinese clone frame I am $400 in and "self insure."
No history of quality:
Again, false. Check the user feedback on the forums.
No history of performance:
As in? Race wins, engineering testing, what? As far as race wins, Pinarello doesn't have the win record trek does. Are you going to tell me that Pinarello is a hack brand?
No Warranty:
technically there is a 1-year warranty. With the shipping costs involved I would tend to just buy another frame.
So, what I think we have concluded is that your argument is based more on prejudices than on facts.
No-brand:
Umm, this is the weakest part of your argument. I'm not all that concerned with brand names becaue 1) I'm over 20 and 2) I don't need a brand-name because I don't have a small...welll, nevermind.
No reputation:
This is actually false. When i was first considering, reluctantly, a clone frame I went in with there would be LOTS of negative reviews, horror stories, etc. What I found while researching was overwhelmingly favorable reviews with the occasional damaged frame. What I was not expecting was that the failure rate was on par with the name-brand frames. What I concluded on my own was that a good percentage of the name brand frames were doing everything in their power to "show" a failure was not "covered by warranty." With the chinese clone frame I am $400 in and "self insure."
No history of quality:
Again, false. Check the user feedback on the forums.
No history of performance:
As in? Race wins, engineering testing, what? As far as race wins, Pinarello doesn't have the win record trek does. Are you going to tell me that Pinarello is a hack brand?
No Warranty:
technically there is a 1-year warranty. With the shipping costs involved I would tend to just buy another frame.
So, what I think we have concluded is that your argument is based more on prejudices than on facts.
Your argument is speculative at best and non-sensical at worse.
No-brand:
Umm, this is the weakest part of your argument. I'm not all that concerned with brand names becaue 1) I'm over 20 and 2) I don't need a brand-name because I don't have a small...welll, nevermind.
No reputation:
This is actually false. When i was first considering, reluctantly, a clone frame I went in with there would be LOTS of negative reviews, horror stories, etc. What I found while researching was overwhelmingly favorable reviews with the occasional damaged frame. What I was not expecting was that the failure rate was on par with the name-brand frames. What I concluded on my own was that a good percentage of the name brand frames were doing everything in their power to "show" a failure was not "covered by warranty." With the chinese clone frame I am $400 in and "self insure."
No history of quality:
Again, false. Check the user feedback on the forums.
No history of performance:
As in? Race wins, engineering testing, what? As far as race wins, Pinarello doesn't have the win record trek does. Are you going to tell me that Pinarello is a hack brand?
No Warranty:
technically there is a 1-year warranty. With the shipping costs involved I would tend to just buy another frame.
So, what I think we have concluded is that your argument is based more on prejudices than on facts.
No-brand:
Umm, this is the weakest part of your argument. I'm not all that concerned with brand names becaue 1) I'm over 20 and 2) I don't need a brand-name because I don't have a small...welll, nevermind.
No reputation:
This is actually false. When i was first considering, reluctantly, a clone frame I went in with there would be LOTS of negative reviews, horror stories, etc. What I found while researching was overwhelmingly favorable reviews with the occasional damaged frame. What I was not expecting was that the failure rate was on par with the name-brand frames. What I concluded on my own was that a good percentage of the name brand frames were doing everything in their power to "show" a failure was not "covered by warranty." With the chinese clone frame I am $400 in and "self insure."
No history of quality:
Again, false. Check the user feedback on the forums.
No history of performance:
As in? Race wins, engineering testing, what? As far as race wins, Pinarello doesn't have the win record trek does. Are you going to tell me that Pinarello is a hack brand?
No Warranty:
technically there is a 1-year warranty. With the shipping costs involved I would tend to just buy another frame.
So, what I think we have concluded is that your argument is based more on prejudices than on facts.
This gets my pedant self going. "Modulus" is taken directly from the Latin and is never spelt "modulas". "Aluminum" is the original spelling of the newly-discovered metal and is a modern word.
Not specific to your post, but I thought I'd go back to the original topic: chinese frames.
I can report on almost 2 years of use and have only one big issue. A few weeks ago i was descending at about 45-50 MPH and the bike started to shake violently (front end shimmying?). I mean, the front end was going one way and the rear was going in the opposite direction; I could feel it. It was very windy (heavy cross winds) and I have bladed spokes. I was lucky to be able to control the bike by pressing my knees on the top tube but it scared the heck out me... this has never happened on my TCR and this is the first time I've gone that fast on my chinese frame since it's really my off-day bike. Afterwards, i noticed that one of the side velcro straps on my saddle bag was totally unattached so it had been "swinging sideways" while I was descending, so it may triggered the shimmying but I don't know and i don't want to replicate the event. I also checked the head set and it was fine but I did find that my front wheel had a "little play" so I tightened the skewer even more. Now, i have doubts about the frame design but maybe I'm being too concerned since there were several factors at play.
Advice?
I would say doing 50mph on a windy day with bladed spokes is more of the culprit than anything else, especially if you couldn't find anything wrong after you finished riding.
Just wondering how many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment? Here in Arizona we can legally carry open and concealed (concealed with permit).
For long distance touring and bicycle camping... I think I'd feel safer carrying my .45 semi-auto pistol (concealed so it doesn't freak people out).
Anyone else carry while biking?
For long distance touring and bicycle camping... I think I'd feel safer carrying my .45 semi-auto pistol (concealed so it doesn't freak people out).
Anyone else carry while biking?
im a chinese, and as far as i know, the only factory can make carbon frames in maimland is called Winspace. its not popular here and most people dont know it. im not sure about its qurality and performance.
as for the others with no names or brands, i guess they r basically homemade, so my advice is not to buy it. there is no guarantee of its quality.the frame may break down when u run into a rock,lol
bike industry hasn't developed here. we mostly choose giant or merida cuz the price is cheap and the quality is good
good luck!
as for the others with no names or brands, i guess they r basically homemade, so my advice is not to buy it. there is no guarantee of its quality.the frame may break down when u run into a rock,lol
bike industry hasn't developed here. we mostly choose giant or merida cuz the price is cheap and the quality is good
good luck!
I doubt you know anything about carbon frame manufacturers.
There are dozens of them in China.
Just google and you find out.
They deliver very good quality and garantee 1-2 years.
I have several Chinese frames of good quality and never break down, dont make me laugh!!!
Wenzhou Sunday Trade Co., Ltd.
Huizhou Xinhuifeng Hardware Mould Processing Store
Shanghai Hongying Trade Co., Ltd.
LT Bike Co., Ltd.
Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited
Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
Guangzhou DNK Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.
Synergy Sports Co., Ltd.
Dongguan Ugoo Composites Technology Co., Ltd.
Fibertek Composite (Xiamen) Co., Ltd.
Shanghai Juncai Building Materials Dept.
X-Bike Equipment Company Limited
Lianyungang Yingyan New Material Co., Ltd.
Yongkang Mingda Imp. & Exp. Co., Ltd
ArchTeks Tech Co., Limited
Xiamen Sonata Composites Technology Co., Ltd.
Zhangjiakou Hong Xing Machinery Co., Ltd. (Zhangjiakou City Hongxing Imp.& Exp. Co., Ltd.)
Hangzhou Guanhao Bicycle Industrial Co., Ltd.
Zhejiang Pujiang Libahuang Bicycle Co., Ltd.
Etc. etc, etc…………….
There are dozens of them in China.
Just google and you find out.
They deliver very good quality and garantee 1-2 years.
I have several Chinese frames of good quality and never break down, dont make me laugh!!!
Wenzhou Sunday Trade Co., Ltd.
Huizhou Xinhuifeng Hardware Mould Processing Store
Shanghai Hongying Trade Co., Ltd.
LT Bike Co., Ltd.
Dengfu Sports Equipment Co., Limited
Shenzhen Baolijia Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.
Guangzhou DNK Carbon Fiber Technology Co., Ltd.
Synergy Sports Co., Ltd.
Dongguan Ugoo Composites Technology Co., Ltd.
Fibertek Composite (Xiamen) Co., Ltd.
Shanghai Juncai Building Materials Dept.
X-Bike Equipment Company Limited
Lianyungang Yingyan New Material Co., Ltd.
Yongkang Mingda Imp. & Exp. Co., Ltd
ArchTeks Tech Co., Limited
Xiamen Sonata Composites Technology Co., Ltd.
Zhangjiakou Hong Xing Machinery Co., Ltd. (Zhangjiakou City Hongxing Imp.& Exp. Co., Ltd.)
Hangzhou Guanhao Bicycle Industrial Co., Ltd.
Zhejiang Pujiang Libahuang Bicycle Co., Ltd.
Etc. etc, etc…………….
The same thing happened on my Tarmac SL3 with Dura-Ace 50mm Carbon clinchers. At around 45mph on a steep decent at Bear the shimmy started - have never been so terrified on a bike in 25 years. This, from the frame that came in 1st and 2nd in last years Tour.
The week before had hit 52mph down the same decent on my aluminum Cinelli with Ksyrium Elites - rock steady. Was goind so fast and laughing so hysterically I missed the sharp left turnoff and ended up on the Palisades Pkwy cruising next to a car for a bunch of seconds!
Even though not windy, in my case was probably the wheels or the extra long valve stems throwing the wheels off balance at that speed.
You'll never know until you troubleshoot. My two cents, it's not your saddlebag.
I don't know the actual percentage, but my guess is that it's got to be very high. Even the higher end brands are manufacturing in Asia or having much of their product line contracted out to an Asian manufacturer these days - Cervelo, Felt, Scott, Pinarello, (new) Eddy Merckx, Colnago, De Rosa, Cannondale, Specialized, Orbea, etc, etc, etc. Then they ship the rough framesets back to the namesake country for painting or decals and final finishing. That "made in Italy" or "made in whatever country" sticker only tell of the final packaging, not where the frame was actually manufactured. Many of the expensive framesets from well known brands likely come from the same factory and are manufactured on the same assembly line as the generic, no name, $500 ebay specials. Paint and branding being the difference. Globalization and cheap labour is the name of the game. Not that I'm saying there's a problem with building frames in Asia.....
One of my carbon bikes is a Stradalli. The company is based in Florida, USA. But it's another Asian made carbon frameset. I was admittedly a skeptic at first. How can these "low end", no name facilities in Asia produce machines that can compare with craftsmen from the Old World? For the record, the Stradalli actually rides as good as my three times more expensive, true handmade in Italy Eddy Merckx Carbon MXM. In fact,when I go for a ride, the first bike I pick from a stable of two Merckx's, two Cannondales, a Trek and a Gios Torino is the.......Stradalli.
One of my carbon bikes is a Stradalli. The company is based in Florida, USA. But it's another Asian made carbon frameset. I was admittedly a skeptic at first. How can these "low end", no name facilities in Asia produce machines that can compare with craftsmen from the Old World? For the record, the Stradalli actually rides as good as my three times more expensive, true handmade in Italy Eddy Merckx Carbon MXM. In fact,when I go for a ride, the first bike I pick from a stable of two Merckx's, two Cannondales, a Trek and a Gios Torino is the.......Stradalli.
My Italian frame is made in Asia and had it's stickers stuck on in Italy.
Tech, mostly agree with your post. But are you sure the no-name frames are really produced by the same factories? If so, are they made to the same design specs, with the same materials and processing? The no-name frames could look just like the high-end brand, but they could be the rejects, ie, have either cosmetic or more serious quality problems which caused the Colnago buyer to reject them. The high-end guy doesn't really care what happens to these frames as long as he doesn't accept them, so they could very easily be sold "out the back door" of the asian factory to someone marketing them directly online.
Not saying no-name frames are automatically low-quality, but just that I don't know if the one I get will be. One reason to pay more for a big brand is to get the quality assurance and warranty support that the brand provides. IE, I'll pay more for a frame not because it has a Colnago decal, but because I think they have carefully designed it, tested it, required the manufacturer to use only the best materials and processing, and required them to screen out any defective frames instead of shipping them for sale. And I trust their "lifetime warranty" and their dealers in case I ever have a problem. All this "assurance" costs money, but is needed to protect the brand quality and reputation. It's what the high-end guys should be including in their higher price.
On the other hand, we've all heard of problems even with the expensive brands. And if I can get a CF frame that looks like a high-end frame for $400 vs $2400, I'm willing to take a chance that it may have quality issues. Even if it has some noticeable flaws, chances are it will still "do the job" and not throw me to the ground unexpectedly, right?
Not saying no-name frames are automatically low-quality, but just that I don't know if the one I get will be. One reason to pay more for a big brand is to get the quality assurance and warranty support that the brand provides. IE, I'll pay more for a frame not because it has a Colnago decal, but because I think they have carefully designed it, tested it, required the manufacturer to use only the best materials and processing, and required them to screen out any defective frames instead of shipping them for sale. And I trust their "lifetime warranty" and their dealers in case I ever have a problem. All this "assurance" costs money, but is needed to protect the brand quality and reputation. It's what the high-end guys should be including in their higher price.
On the other hand, we've all heard of problems even with the expensive brands. And if I can get a CF frame that looks like a high-end frame for $400 vs $2400, I'm willing to take a chance that it may have quality issues. Even if it has some noticeable flaws, chances are it will still "do the job" and not throw me to the ground unexpectedly, right?
It's obvious that some factories have used closed mold designs for no-name frames. It's been reported as much, for example, with fake Pina's having some CF replaced with fiberglass. This has likewise been the case for some other knock offs. Of course, with most products, someone is likely, somewhere, to produce a knock off. There is also no doubt that some no-name frames are coming out of good factories and have quality construction. The difficulty is in identifying those frames.
dhk2 is right that it can be roughly assumed that if you buy a "brand" that you'll be more assured of having some recompense if something goes pear shaped with the frame. No such recompense likely exists with a no-name frame. Of course, "more assured" doesn't guarantee that recompense. There are some big name companies that have shorted a customer or two or maybe more.
In the end, no one can make the decision on a purchase except the person with the open wallet. It would behoove that person to be careful doing their cost/benefit analysis for that purchase since it could be that buying a slightly more expensive frame might be cheaper in the end than buying a no-name frame and replacing it or than buying a no-name frame and paying for the additional medical bills that resulted when the frame gave up. Those things are guaranteed to happen, but they should be considered when making that big decision.
Frankly, I like a company that offers a generous warrantee.
For anyone considering purchasing one of these frames, I'd say "go for it"! I personally have three of them, 2x road frames and 1x Time Trial Frame, they're brilliant. Light, responsive and you can choose the configuration of rear stays, forks etc. and brand them as you wish! And for any of you doubters, can I just say that I moved from Bianchi CF Limited Edition Frames to these and also a Scott Plasma. The ride quality on my Chinese Frames is truly exceptional. Check out that £3.5K Specialized frame, you'll surely fine that "Made in Taiwan" sticker underneath. At least if Mr Dipstick decides to pull-out on me in his car this weekend, at least it will only be me, not my wallet that gets hurt!
Speaking of Asian made Stradalli ...
am I reading this ad correctly ...
a full Stradalli bike for under $1000 ? : http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-STRADALLI-NAPOLI-SRAM-RED-BLACK-FULL-CARBON-ROAD-BIKE-RACE-BICYCLE-BB30-Med-/160693667992?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item256a16c898
EDIT - was an eBay user scam
I bought my Stradalli Milano Pro-Strada frameset and fork (incl. seatpost, integrated headset, seat clamp) for $900 in early 2010. All new Stradalli carbon framesets are around the $900-1000 range.
Stradalli website
http://www.carbonroadbikebicyclecycling.com/
Hi, sorry to be a pain
I noticed earlier someone said about '88bikefun' on ebay and I'm looking at getting
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xmas-discount-Brand-New-Full-Carbon-12K-700C-Road-Frame-50cm-/370565595749?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item56476e4265#ht_1829wt_986
I was wondering if any one has some long term use or race use of a frame imported? I'm not looking to build a nice looking £££ bike for cheep i have everything on my old GT but the from geometery is way to long and need something small and compact for my style of riding. I have quite a hi power output and a bit of a kick just won to know if i start racing again weather or not the frame can handle it etc etc....
Cheers
kirk
I noticed earlier someone said about '88bikefun' on ebay and I'm looking at getting
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xmas-discount-Brand-New-Full-Carbon-12K-700C-Road-Frame-50cm-/370565595749?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item56476e4265#ht_1829wt_986
I was wondering if any one has some long term use or race use of a frame imported? I'm not looking to build a nice looking £££ bike for cheep i have everything on my old GT but the from geometery is way to long and need something small and compact for my style of riding. I have quite a hi power output and a bit of a kick just won to know if i start racing again weather or not the frame can handle it etc etc....
Cheers
kirk
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