Collarbone

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

Scott said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body
armor/chest protector is the best for preventing this?

A car

Scott said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body
armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

Many people, mistakenly, believe that c-bone breaks come from direct
impact. This is almost never the case
<http://www.dynomed.com/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/shoulder/Fracture_of_the_Clavicle_(Collar_Bone).html>
Unfortunately, there is no body armor that will protect from indirect
fractures.

As far as direct hits to it goes, you probably won't find anything more
protective (and comfortable) than Casel Equi <http://www.yodobike.com> Go
to "Products" and then Casel Equi for pictures. I was using this vest till
a month ago, when I switch to a Dainese jacket. They (Casel Equi) run
approx $250 without the arms.

--
Slacker

Slacker said:

Quoted message said:

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

Many people, mistakenly, believe that c-bone breaks come from direct
impact. This is almost never the case
<http://www.dynomed.com/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/shoulder/Fracture_of_the_Clavicle_(Collar_Bone).html>
Unfortunately, there is no body armor that will protect from indirect
fractures.

How odd. I wonder whether they're counting old people in that. Every
broken collarbone I've seen has been the result of a direct impact.

Quoted message said:

As far as direct hits to it goes, you probably won't find anything more
protective (and comfortable) than Casel Equi <http://www.yodobike.com>
Go to "Products" and then Casel Equi for pictures. I was using this vest
till a month ago, when I switch to a Dainese jacket. They (Casel Equi)
run approx $250 without the arms.

I would say there is very little that will stop a broken collarbone from a
direct impact. You're landing on it, with speed, and with the full weight
of your body behind it, and unlike limbs which can get knocked out the
way, the collarbone can't move. The Casel Equi armour might help, but as
with all mountain biking, the best way to avoid injury is not to exceed
your limits.

"bomba" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slacker said:

Quoted message said:

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body
armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

Many people, mistakenly, believe that c-bone breaks come from direct
impact. This is almost never the case
<http://www.dynomed.com/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/shoulder/Fracture_of_the_Clavicle_(Collar_Bone).html>
Unfortunately, there is no body armor that will protect from indirect
fractures.

How odd. I wonder whether they're counting old people in that. Every
broken collarbone I've seen has been the result of a direct impact.

I've personally seen 2 break, and known 8 others that have broken. Plus my
dad is an orthopedic surgeon, so I get some stuff from that.

Only 2 of those were from direct impact. Unlucky both times, just came down
with their entire body weight on the shoulder. The other 6 happened when
people put their arms out and locked their elbows - all that force just goes
right up the arm into the shoulder, and the collarbone is often the first to
break. My father said most collarbone injuries occur this way - and he
specializes in sports medicine, so he doesn't just see old people with
osteoporosis.

The worst one I've heard of wasn't collarbone at all - it was the acromion.
Basically the collarbone on the backside, it connects to your scapula
(shoulderblade). Older guy (55 or so) fell on it mountain biking - that was
a direct injury. Its under tension, so when it cracks, it pulls apart and
they need to operate and pin just to get the bone to line back up. He now
wears that fox plastic shoulder/chest protector when he goes biking so he
doesn't break it again.

Your best bet is to learn how to fall. Take a few judo classes, then
practice shoulder rolling. I've screwed up both my shoulders, but the
injuries were always comparitively minor to what could, or should, have
happened to me. Granted, I had 8 years or so of karate, but if you practice
just the falling enough you'll get real good at rolling out of falls. My
actual injuries have come when either I couldn't get away from my bike and
roll, or when skiing and getting tripped up going slowly, without enough
momentum to roll.

Jon Bond

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My buddy broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body

armor/chest

Quoted message said:

protector is the best for preventing this?

I recently bought the ONeal Matrix Chest Protector, the 04 model. The
shoulder rest higher than this newer 05 model. There is a much larger gap
than this new model. It's fairly light and seems more breathable than any
of the Dainese products I tried on.

http://www.oneal.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=72

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. So, I don't know how comfortable
it is while riding. They sell on Ebay for about $60. I bought the clear
model. I'd also listen to the other posters advice about indirect breaks.
I didn't know that either.

Jon Bond said:

Quoted message said:

How odd. I wonder whether they're counting old people in that. Every
broken collarbone I've seen has been the result of a direct impact.

I've personally seen 2 break, and known 8 others that have broken. Plus my
dad is an orthopedic surgeon, so I get some stuff from that.

Only 2 of those were from direct impact. Unlucky both times, just came down
with their entire body weight on the shoulder. The other 6 happened when
people put their arms out and locked their elbows - all that force just goes
right up the arm into the shoulder, and the collarbone is often the first to
break. My father said most collarbone injuries occur this way - and he
specializes in sports medicine, so he doesn't just see old people with
osteoporosis.

Well, learn something new every day. Guess my view of collarbone injuries
is skewed in that most I've seen (and experienced myself) have been in
rugby.

bomba said:

Jon Bond said:

Quoted message said:

How odd. I wonder whether they're counting old people in that. Every
broken collarbone I've seen has been the result of a direct impact.

I've personally seen 2 break, and known 8 others that have broken.
Plus my
dad is an orthopedic surgeon, so I get some stuff from that.

Only 2 of those were from direct impact. Unlucky both times, just came
down
with their entire body weight on the shoulder. The other 6 happened
when
people put their arms out and locked their elbows - all that force just
goes
right up the arm into the shoulder, and the collarbone is often the
first to
break. My father said most collarbone injuries occur this way - and he
specializes in sports medicine, so he doesn't just see old people with
osteoporosis.

Well, learn something new every day. Guess my view of collarbone injuries
is skewed in that most I've seen (and experienced myself) have been in
rugby.

Then I can see a direct hit as most common in that
circumstance.

A little more more ref here
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101879

--
Slacker

If you think you need protection. Get in to a
bubble and don't move.

I MTB 2004

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

Awesome, welcome to the club, Dude. One great thing is you can still ride
[road bikes] with a broken collar bone.

dave

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you think you need protection. Get in to a
bubble and don't move.

Hmm, I was thinking of a gigantic condom like they had in Naked Gun.

Dave

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My view on this is that people who have neglected their upper body
development ( have not been working out in the gym) have a relatively
fragile upper body as this relates to big impacts like crashes--on the mtb
or road bike.

Just look at a typical roadie racer type, with a Tyrannosaurus Rex type
body--big legs, but no upper body development and tiny vestigial arms and
shoulders. Its no wonder they break their collar bones when they crash.

I think part of this is more than just building up your shoulders---I think
you need a thick upper torso, meaning dense and wide lats...this way, when
you take a big impact on your shoulder, as in going over the bars, and
landing on your side and shoulder, impact with the ground pushes your arm
into the dense muscle of your lats and upper torso, preventing the shoulder
from having to absorb all the impact itself.

Dan V

Dan Volker said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My view on this is that people who have neglected their upper body
development ( have not been working out in the gym) have a relatively
fragile upper body as this relates to big impacts like crashes--on the mtb
or road bike.

Just look at a typical roadie racer type, with a Tyrannosaurus Rex type
body--big legs, but no upper body development and tiny vestigial arms and
shoulders. Its no wonder they break their collar bones when they crash.

I think part of this is more than just building up your shoulders---I think
you need a thick upper torso, meaning dense and wide lats...this way, when
you take a big impact on your shoulder, as in going over the bars, and
landing on your side and shoulder, impact with the ground pushes your arm
into the dense muscle of your lats and upper torso, preventing the shoulder
from having to absorb all the impact itself.

Me first, Me first!
You dink! *Mountain* bikers usually have significant upper body
development. Riding in *mountains* requires a lot of upper body
involvement.
When I went OTB at 20 mph while riding in *the mountains* some years
back, and severely separated my shoulder, I had lots of upper body
muscle. I was XC skiing, riding, trail running and lifting. With your
logic, if I was a flat land roadie from someplace like, oh say, Florida!
the impact would have been enough to turn me inside out from right to
left. I respectfully disagree.

Sarcastically Yours,
Shawn

Shawn said:

Dan Volker wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My view on this is that people who have neglected their upper body
development ( have not been working out in the gym) have a relatively
fragile upper body as this relates to big impacts like crashes--on
the mtb or road bike.

Just look at a typical roadie racer type, with a Tyrannosaurus Rex
type body--big legs, but no upper body development and tiny
vestigial arms and shoulders. Its no wonder they break their collar
bones when they crash.

I think part of this is more than just building up your
shoulders---I think you need a thick upper torso, meaning dense and
wide lats...this way, when you take a big impact on your shoulder,
as in going over the bars, and landing on your side and shoulder,
impact with the ground pushes your arm into the dense muscle of your
lats and upper torso, preventing the shoulder from having to absorb
all the impact itself.

Me first, Me first!
You dink! *Mountain* bikers usually have significant upper body
development. Riding in *mountains* requires a lot of upper body
involvement.
When I went OTB at 20 mph while riding in *the mountains* some years
back, and severely separated my shoulder, I had lots of upper body
muscle. I was XC skiing, riding, trail running and lifting. With
your logic, if I was a flat land roadie from someplace like, oh say,
Florida! the impact would have been enough to turn me inside out
from right to left. I respectfully disagree.

Sarcastically Yours,
Shawn

I was just gonna post a "you must be a ball at parties" blast, but yours was
much better, Shawn.

Bill "Dan's a fun-sucker" S.

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My view on this is that people who have neglected their upper body
development ( have not been working out in the gym) have a relatively
fragile upper body as this relates to big impacts like crashes--on the mtb
or road bike.

Just look at a typical roadie racer type, with a Tyrannosaurus Rex type
body--big legs, but no upper body development and tiny vestigial arms and
shoulders. Its no wonder they break their collar bones when they crash.

You care to test your theory?

Dave

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SPNjd.39707

Quoted message said:

I think part of this is more than just building up your shoulders---I
think
you need a thick upper torso, meaning dense and wide lats...this way, when
you take a big impact on your shoulder, as in going over the bars, and
landing on your side and shoulder, impact with the ground pushes your arm
into the dense muscle of your lats and upper torso, preventing the
shoulder
from having to absorb all the impact itself.

Dan V

My friend is a weight lifter, has 2 different black belts and has fought in
the tough man competitions. His upper body is very developed and his lower
body is too. He is pretty balanced out. He went off a cliff drop.. probly
20' down and 20' out. He took off and landed perfectly. The problem was
the landing was comprised on loose soil and loose baseball sized rocks. The
bike sank in and he went over the bars. The bike popped up after his 200
pounds left it and flipped about 3 times in the air. It landed on him. A
48 pound IHorse SGS team. His body armor protected his back 100%. When I
told him later he didn't even know it hit him.

He hit hard, very hard. What he sould have done is walked the landing and
run out.

I hit a tree with my right shoulder at 30mph, knocked me for 6. Felt a
little painful but not enough to stop me riding on. Over the coming months i
developed a lump near my neck - my GP tells me this is the bony overgrowth
where id broken it?! Thought they were painful!?Obviously i was lucky in my
breakage angle/type or suchlike.

J

Coyoteboy said:

I hit a tree with my right shoulder at 30mph, knocked me for 6. Felt a
little painful but not enough to stop me riding on. Over the coming
months i
developed a lump near my neck - my GP tells me this is the bony
overgrowth
where id broken it?! Thought they were painful!?Obviously i was lucky in
my
breakage angle/type or suchlike.

J

Yeah, apparently some of the breaks aren't that bad or at least, don't
feel like it. The first DH race I went to, I met this dude that was racing
with a broken one.

--
Slacker

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My broke his collarbone in 2 places yeaterday. What body armor/chest
protector is the best for preventing this?

My view on this is that people who have neglected their upper body
development ( have not been working out in the gym) have a relatively
fragile upper body as this relates to big impacts like crashes--on the mtb
or road bike.

Just look at a typical roadie racer type, with a Tyrannosaurus Rex type
body--big legs, but no upper body development and tiny vestigial arms and
shoulders. Its no wonder they break their collar bones when they crash.

I think part of this is more than just building up your shoulders---I
think
you need a thick upper torso, meaning dense and wide lats...this way, when
you take a big impact on your shoulder, as in going over the bars, and
landing on your side and shoulder, impact with the ground pushes your arm
into the dense muscle of your lats and upper torso, preventing the
shoulder
from having to absorb all the impact itself.

Dan V

If you hit rock or hardpack or pavement going 20+ mph and auger in, you're
gonna hurt something. Muscle/flab will decrease the impulse (as they'll
"slow down" the impact time), but with skeletal structure they won't really
distribute the pressure too well. The collarbone takes all the pressure
than forces the shoulder up and in - the only other bone there to do it is
the acromion, but its under tension and as such won't really contribute too
much to taking load away from the collarbone. Some of the shoulder
tendons/ligaments might help a tiny amount, but the ball and socket shoulder
joint really doesn't have all that much structural stability for that kind
of load - it will take that compression and just push it right into the
collarbone.

I'm not sure what the maximum stress collarbones can take on average, but
150-200lbs hitting ground at those kind of speeds.... the compression force
(as well as the bending moment) on the bone is going to be pretty extreme.
Yeah, it may not be quite as high as if you didn't have any padding there at
all, but you'll also have a lot more weight coming down on it to from that
extra development.

There is something to say about bones strengthening from use, as bone
density does increase where stresses are felt the most - but the type of
load you get on the collarbone is beyond that.

Jon "Mechanical Engineering Hat" Bond