Do I need a new wheel?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Candt, May 30, 2003.

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  1. Candt

    Candt Guest

    Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there seems to be a lot of 'play'
    in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?

    OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to hear the 'clicks' of the
    freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of crank rotation. So basically - there can be
    2 to 3 inches of zero resistance when moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the
    wheels start moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where you're positioning
    the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log or rock, then you hit the accelerator,
    and from a quarter past nine position, the cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!

    Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the hub/wheel? Or am I stuck with it
    until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...

    Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to rebuild the wheel?

    Cheers,

    CandT
     
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  2. Candt

    Candt Guest

    On Fri, 30 May 2003 07:05:39 GMT, CandT <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >CandT

    Just to add - in case it's relevant. I believe they are Formula hubs, on WTB dual duty rims.

    Cheers again,

    CandT
     
  3. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    CandT wrote:
    > Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there seems to be a lot of 'play'
    > in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?
    >
    > OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to hear the 'clicks' of the
    > freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of crank rotation. So basically - there can
    > be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance when moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and
    > the wheels start moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where you're
    > positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log or rock, then you hit the
    > accelerator, and from a quarter past nine position, the cranks only start turning the rear wheel
    > at 11:25 !!!
    >
    > Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the hub/wheel? Or am I stuck with
    > it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...
    >
    > Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to rebuild the wheel?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > CandT

    It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
    free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the pawls
    engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want to
    engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
    (spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
    bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it were
    a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were only 2
    sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal just
    after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to engagement.

    After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
    it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
    almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.

    David
     
  4. Tacomaboy

    Tacomaboy Guest

    "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > CandT wrote:
    > > Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there
    seems to
    > > be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?
    > >
    > > OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to
    hear the
    > > 'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of
    crank
    > > rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance
    when
    > > moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels
    start
    > > moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where
    you're
    > > positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log
    or
    > > rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine
    position, the
    > > cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!
    > >
    > > Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the
    hub/wheel? Or
    > > am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...
    > >
    > > Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to
    rebuild the
    > > wheel?
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > CandT
    >
    > It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
    > free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
    > pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
    > to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
    > (spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
    > bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
    > were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
    > only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
    > just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to
    engagement.
    >
    > After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
    > it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
    > almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.
    >
    > David
    >

    That sounds reallly useful, I keep bashing my pedals on rocks because I dont feel resistance in my
    wheel unitl 25 or more degrees, and at that point, my pedal is already in a bad position. Whats one
    of these hubs cost? And how much would it cost to have a wheel mounted to it? Am I better off buying
    a wheel with one already installed?
     
  5. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Tacomaboy wrote:
    > "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>CandT wrote:
    >>
    >>>Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there
    >
    > seems to
    >
    >>>be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?
    >>>
    >>>OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to
    >
    > hear the
    >
    >>>'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of
    >
    > crank
    >
    >>>rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance
    >
    > when
    >
    >>>moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels
    >
    > start
    >
    >>>moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where
    >
    > you're
    >
    >>>positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log
    >
    > or
    >
    >>>rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine
    >
    > position, the
    >
    >>>cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!
    >>>
    >>>Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the
    >
    > hub/wheel? Or
    >
    >>>am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...
    >>>
    >>>Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to
    >
    > rebuild the
    >
    >>>wheel?
    >>>
    >>>Cheers,
    >>>
    >>>CandT
    >>
    >>It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
    >>free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
    >>pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
    >>to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
    >>(spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
    >>bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
    >>were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
    >>only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
    >>just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to
    >
    > engagement.
    >
    >>After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
    >>it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
    >>almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.
    >>
    >>David
    >>
    >
    >
    > That sounds reallly useful, I keep bashing my pedals on rocks because I dont feel resistance in my
    > wheel unitl 25 or more degrees, and at that point, my pedal is already in a bad position. Whats
    > one of these hubs cost? And how much would it cost to have a wheel mounted to it? Am I better off
    > buying a wheel with one already installed?

    Chris King is top of the line. I believe that one of their disc hubs alone is ahout $250 right now
    (JensonUSA has 'em for $245). To have that laced-up to your current rim'll add to that (I don't know
    how much -- I build my own wheels -- a nice relaxing evening :)). You can also buy pre-built wheels
    using Chris King hubs -- JensonUSA has a pair for $380, but you'd only need the rear.

    David
     
  6. Candt

    Candt Guest

    On Fri, 30 May 2003 09:50:47 GMT, David Kunz <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >David

    Cheers for that - but just to clarify, and I'm not sure if I'm right - but if I were to replace
    the freehub, then that should sove my problem? Aren't the pawls and teeth all self contained in
    the freehub. This just screws into the hub body with a long thread which is self-tightening under
    pedal load.

    Though I suppose - if a shimano freehub body has a different screw thread than the Formula hub body,
    then I'm screwed anyway...

    CandT
     
  7. "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > CandT wrote:
    > > Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there
    seems to
    > > be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?
    > >
    > > OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to
    hear the
    > > 'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of
    crank
    > > rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance
    when
    > > moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels
    start
    > > moving. this can make if very hard to ride tchnical sections where
    you're
    > > positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of drive to get over a log
    or
    > > rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine
    position, the
    > > cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!
    > >
    > > Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the
    hub/wheel? Or
    > > am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...
    > >
    > > Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to
    rebuild the
    > > wheel?
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > CandT
    >
    > It can only be changed by changing to a different hub. This has to do with the design of the
    > free-hub. It's how many pawl locking points did they design in. The hub turns freely until the
    > pawls engage the next locking point. So, the more locking points, the less rotation when you want
    > to engage. Conceptually... Think of the hub as having a sawtooth ring. The free-hub body has pawls
    > (spring-driven push buttons) that press into this ring. It's engaged when the pawls are at the
    > bottom of the ramp, up against the flat (against the part of the sawtooth that would cut if it
    > were a saw). It's turning freely while the pawls slide down the ramp to this point. If there were
    > only 2 sawteeth, then the pedals would turn 180 degrees in the worst case of you starting to pedal
    > just after the locking point. So, more teeth = less rotation to
    engagement.
    >
    > After having a similar experience with an American Classic hub, I now check every hub before I buy
    > it. It's one of the advantages of a Chris King hub -- there're so many locking points, there's
    > almost no rotation from free turning to locked and pedaling.
    >
    > David
    >

    In my recent recent research, Chris King have an amazingly fast engagement, better than all that I
    got to touch (which admittedly was not the full spectrum of hubs). But you pay for that feature.
    --
    Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)
     
  8. > In my recent recent research, Chris King have an amazingly fast
    engagement,
    > better than all that I got to touch (which admittedly was not the full spectrum of hubs). But you
    > pay for that feature.

    Check out Hope hubs (www.hopetech.com). twice the amount of ratchets as standard shimano hubs. Solid
    build, bearings like a brick shit-house and lovely anodised colours. Oh, they're also a shit load
    cheaper than Chris King

    Small Black Dog
     
  9. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    CandT wrote:
    > On Fri, 30 May 2003 09:50:47 GMT, David Kunz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>David
    >
    >
    > Cheers for that - but just to clarify, and I'm not sure if I'm right - but if I were to replace
    > the freehub, then that should sove my problem? Aren't the pawls and teeth all self contained in
    > the freehub. This just screws into the hub body with a long thread which is self-tightening under
    > pedal load.
    >
    > Though I suppose - if a shimano freehub body has a different screw thread than the Formula hub
    > body, then I'm screwed anyway...

    Good point on the unscrewing. My last couple of hubs had integral freehubs so that option didn't
    occur to me. But, I believe that you're right -- that everyone has their own different
    non-interchangable designs. At least, I've never seen any that are interchangable. You could check
    with your LBS. Or, someone else here suggested Hope as a cheaper alternative to Chris King.

    David
     
  10. Is it a single-speed? If it is, your chain tension is probably low.

    If it's a geared bike and you've ridden other geared bikes, then this one shouldn't be any
    different. Look for a King hub in the rear.

    Phil, sQuid.

    "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dl0e[email protected]...
    > Not sure if this is going to come out right, but on my new Haro, there
    seems to
    > be a lot of 'play' in the crankarms before engaging the rear wheel under pedalling?
    >
    > OK - to clarify, if you were at a dead stop, rewinding the pedals to hear
    the
    > 'clicks' of the freehub, they are quite widely spaced - 2 to 3 inches of
    crank
    > rotation. So basically - there can be 2 to 3 inches of zero resistance
    when
    > moving the cranks forward until the freehub catches, and the wheels start moving. this can make if
    > very hard to ride tchnical sections where you're positioning the pedals correctly to add a bit of
    > drive to get over a log
    or
    > rock, then you hit the accelerator, and from a quarter past nine position,
    the
    > cranks only start turning the rear wheel at 11:25 !!!
    >
    > Now - is this something that can be replaced without replacing the
    hub/wheel? Or
    > am I stuck with it until I get a whole new hub/wheel/cassette...
    >
    > Also, if it is replacable, could I do it myself, or will I have to rebuild
    the
    > wheel?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > CandT
     
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