Dutch Bikes - Gazelle Range - English info on deraileur equipped models?



P

Pyromancer

Guest
Popped over to York on the train on Saturday (158 each way) and had a
delightful test ride on a Gazelle Impala courtesy of Cycle Heaven. I'm
in love! :)

The ride was quite simply breathtaking, I'd forgotten just how nice
cycling could be when you can sit tall and glide along, instead of
slogging away like an athlete. Everything about the bike was a complete
joy, and the tiny weight difference over other bikes I've had was not
enough to worry about.

The hub gears were amazing, 7 speed and being able to change in an
instant even when stationary was brilliant. The hub-dynamo powered
front light was great, no noticeable drag at all - and the hub brakes
when applied felt like they'd quite happily stop a truck, never mind a
bike!

Ok, so much for the hype / bike-lust <g>, now to the question:

I know Gazelle do models equipped with deraileurs for a wider range of
gears. I'm wondering exactly how these work - is it a 3-speed deraileur
plus the hub gears (to effectively give three sprocket choices), or is
it just a traditional deraileur setup with 3 chainrings and however many
sprockets?

I've had a look at the Gazelle.nl website - the UK section goes straight
to Cycle Heaven's site, and while I can sort of make sense of the Dutch
version I can't find the details on the gearing arrangements. Are there
any other English sites giving more detail on Gazelles? Cycle Heaven
themselves stick to the non-deraileur versions, though as I'll need to
order my size anyway (I need a 61, and they don't have any in stock), it
wouldn't take any longer to get a different model to the ones they
usually keep.

On a semi-related track, while I was riding the Gazelle I saw someone
whizz past on a different route on a quite high recumbent. I really
want to try one of those at some point too, that looks like serious fun.
:)

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>
 
Pyromancer wrote:

> I've had a look at the Gazelle.nl website - the UK section goes straight
> to Cycle Heaven's site, and while I can sort of make sense of the Dutch
> version I can't find the details on the gearing arrangements. Are there
> any other English sites giving more detail on Gazelles?



If it has a chaincase it has Shimano hubgears. They do some
derailleurgears but only on the hybrids I think.
--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
 
Pyromancer <[email protected]> writes:

>The ride was quite simply breathtaking, I'd forgotten just how nice
>cycling could be when you can sit tall and glide along, instead of
>slogging away like an athlete. Everything about the bike was a complete
>joy, and the tiny weight difference over other bikes I've had was not
>enough to worry about.


They do a carbon fibre version too :)

>I know Gazelle do models equipped with deraileurs for a wider range of
>gears. I'm wondering exactly how these work - is it a 3-speed deraileur
>plus the hub gears (to effectively give three sprocket choices), or is
>it just a traditional deraileur setup with 3 chainrings and however many
>sprockets?


>I've had a look at the Gazelle.nl website - the UK section goes straight
>to Cycle Heaven's site, and while I can sort of make sense of the Dutch
>version I can't find the details on the gearing arrangements.


Had a look at the Dutch version and it is quite useless when it comes to
technical details. Looking at the pictures it looks like the models with
more than 8 gears have the standard derailleur setup front and rear, with
some sort of open chain guard system.

For any parents that are listebing in: there is also a mini version of the
traditional "grandma" dutch bike with 24" wheels, comes in pink or blue :)

Roos
 
Roos Eisma wrote:
> Pyromancer <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> The ride was quite simply breathtaking, I'd forgotten just how nice
>> cycling could be when you can sit tall and glide along, instead of
>> slogging away like an athlete. Everything about the bike was a
>> complete joy, and the tiny weight difference over other bikes I've
>> had was not enough to worry about.

>
> They do a carbon fibre version too :)
>

Only 15.1kg.

And here I was perfectly satisfied with my current bike.

Anyone got £1359.00 they're not using?

--
Ambrose
 
Pyromancer wrote:

> I know Gazelle do models equipped with deraileurs for a wider range of
> gears. I'm wondering exactly how these work - is it a 3-speed deraileur
> plus the hub gears (to effectively give three sprocket choices), or is
> it just a traditional deraileur setup with 3 chainrings and however many
> sprockets?


As suggested elsewhere, I think the derailleur models are /not/ "Dutch"
bikes in the stylistic sense, but just Gazelle's entry into the hybrid
market. Derailleurs aren't really compatible with a normal chaincase,
which means you're throwing away a lot of your low maintenance advantage
both from losing chain protection and derailling the chain at angles
over sprockets to increase wear. Which would be a shame.

If you're going down this route (and since you love the bike it looks
like a good one) I'd see if the hub as supplied has a good enough range
before you worry too much. If you're not into sports there's a very
good chance it will (I get about unflat Dundee okay with a 3 speed hub
on my Brompton, even though the tourer has a 3x9 derailleur). If it
doesn't then a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear changer is a possible
answer. It's not cheap at ca. £300 but it will give you what boils down
to a maintenance free gear range extension that doesn't affect the
general easy use low maintenance main drive at all. You just tap a
crank-centre button with your heel and the overall gear ratio drops (in
the Mountain Drive) or raises (in the Speed Drive).
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/mountain_drive.shtml for more details.

> On a semi-related track, while I was riding the Gazelle I saw someone
> whizz past on a different route on a quite high recumbent. I really
> want to try one of those at some point too, that looks like serious fun.
> :)


A good place to start for the 'bent equivalent of a Dutch roadster would
be the HP Velotechnik Spirit. It's a get on and go machine, very well
suited for urban use and fine for day tours.
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/spirit.shtml and there's a demo bike there.
There may well be one at Bikefix (London), and possibly D-Tek (Ely)
too. I would say worth giving a try sooner rather than later since you
seem to be in the market for a new purchase.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:

> on my Brompton, even though the tourer has a 3x9 derailleur). If it
> doesn't then a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear changer is a possible
> answer.


Good point, and I noticed that Cycle Heaven had one in stock on Saturday.

--
Arthur Clune
 
Arthur Clune wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>
>
>>on my Brompton, even though the tourer has a 3x9 derailleur). If it
>>doesn't then a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear changer is a possible
>>answer.

>
>
> Good point, and I noticed that Cycle Heaven had one in stock on Saturday.
>

Gazelle has their own pressfit bottombracket with adapters for the
chaincase. That make them less than ideal for a Schlumpfdrive, and the
Shimano hubgears might not like the extra torque either.
Fitting a Nexus 8 (slightly higher range) will be less hassle and
cheaper, a Rohloff might fit too

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
 
Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:
> On a semi-related track, while I was riding the Gazelle I saw someone
> whizz past on a different route on a quite high recumbent. I really
> want to try one of those at some point too, that looks like serious fun.


I presume it wasn't a postie, since you'd probably have mentioned that
detail? (If it was a postie, then it was probably yours truly!).
Assuming it wasn't me, then was the bike a Giant Revive[1]? If it was,
then there's a shop in York selling them as well - Fulford Cycles.

Dunno what the either bike or the shop are like though ...

[1] http://www.bikesandtrailers.com/recumbents/index.html (that being the
first link I could find!)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:

> Dunno what the either bike or the shop are like though ...


The shop are ok. I got my MTB from there. Just make sure that
what you want is in stock.

--
Arthur Clune
 
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Alistair
Gunn <[email protected]> gently breathed:
>Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:


>> On a semi-related track, while I was riding the Gazelle I saw someone
>> whizz past on a different route on a quite high recumbent. I really
>> want to try one of those at some point too, that looks like serious fun.


>I presume it wasn't a postie, since you'd probably have mentioned that
>detail? (If it was a postie, then it was probably yours truly!).


I don't think so. Btw, I seem to have lost your mobile no, else I'd
have txted you from the train over. Spod addy if you want me to have
it.

>Assuming it wasn't me, then was the bike a Giant Revive[1]? If it was,
>then there's a shop in York selling them as well - Fulford Cycles.


I was coming down off the sweeping bridge (as if coming back from
Selby), and he (I'm pretty sure it was a he) was passing the bridge
ahead of me, going downstream fast on the western riverbank.

>Dunno what the either bike or the shop are like though ...
>
>[1] http://www.bikesandtrailers.com/recumbents/index.html (that being the
> first link I could find!)


Those (and the similar one someone else posted) are seriously nice, but
what I saw was more "enthusiast", with a small front wheel and the
cranks way out at the front, but the rider seemed quite high up above
the rear wheel, rather than down low between the wheels. I've always
liked the recumbent idea, but until this thread I'd not seen anything
like the Giants.

I'm definitely going for the Gazelle Impala for commuting and town use
(just waiting for the company to sign up to Cyclescheme, which they're
doing at the moment, and Cycle Heaven will be getting my order), but I
can imagine that in a year or two a 'bent will be added to the stable.
As is frequently said in these parts, you can never have too many
bikes.. :)

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>
 
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Peter
Clinch <[email protected]> gently breathed:
>Pyromancer wrote:


>> I know Gazelle do models equipped with deraileurs for a wider range of
>> gears. I'm wondering exactly how these work - is it a 3-speed deraileur
>> plus the hub gears (to effectively give three sprocket choices), or is
>> it just a traditional deraileur setup with 3 chainrings and however many
>> sprockets?


>As suggested elsewhere, I think the derailleur models are /not/ "Dutch"
>bikes in the stylistic sense, but just Gazelle's entry into the hybrid
>market. Derailleurs aren't really compatible with a normal chaincase,
>which means you're throwing away a lot of your low maintenance
>advantage both from losing chain protection and derailling the chain at
>angles over sprockets to increase wear. Which would be a shame.


Indeed. I was hoping it was a 3 sprockets plus hub system, but if not
then as you say I'm better off just going with the 7 (seemed plenty in
York, not that I could find any serious hills to go up!), and just get
fitter as needed!

The only thing I'm worried about is the what feels like 1 in 1 gradient
by the abandoned Fforde Green pub, up which I'm liable to be hauling
significant quantities of shopping running fully loaded from Tesco - but
I can always go round down towards St James and up the gentler slopes
that way instead if it really does overload the power unit.

>If you're going down this route (and since you love the bike it looks
>like a good one) I'd see if the hub as supplied has a good enough range
>before you worry too much. If you're not into sports there's a very
>good chance it will (I get about unflat Dundee okay with a 3 speed hub
>on my Brompton, even though the tourer has a 3x9 derailleur). If it
>doesn't then a Schlumpf bottom bracket gear changer is a possible
>answer. It's not cheap at ca. £300 but it will give you what boils
>down to a maintenance free gear range extension that doesn't affect the
>general easy use low maintenance main drive at all. You just tap a
>crank-centre button with your heel and the overall gear ratio drops (in
>the Mountain Drive) or raises (in the Speed Drive). http://kinetics.org
>.uk/html/mountain_drive.shtml for more details.


Mmmm!! Drool!!! Me like! :)

>> On a semi-related track, while I was riding the Gazelle I saw someone
>> whizz past on a different route on a quite high recumbent. I really
>> want to try one of those at some point too, that looks like serious fun.
>> :)


>A good place to start for the 'bent equivalent of a Dutch roadster
>would be the HP Velotechnik Spirit. It's a get on and go machine, very
>well suited for urban use and fine for day tours. http://kinetics.org.u
>k/html/spirit.shtml and there's a demo bike there. There may well be
>one at Bikefix (London), and possibly D-Tek (Ely) too. I would say
>worth giving a try sooner rather than later since you seem to be in the
>market for a new purchase.


Impressive. Wish I still lived in Glasgow, sounds like Kinetics is my
kind of shop! I've decided on the Gazelle for now. I did look at a
Ridgeback, Cycle Heaven had one next to the Gazelle I test-rode, and it
was indeed a very nice bike, but the lure of the "everything built in"
Dutch machinery, plus that amazingly comfortable riding position, has
won for now. But as I said to Alistair, I think possibly something like
the Spirit, or a Giant, might find its way into my bike stable
eventually.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>
 
Pyromancer wrote:

> Indeed. I was hoping it was a 3 sprockets plus hub system


I haven't seen anyone doing that. The DualDrive (and Shimano
equivalent) are 7+ speed derailleurs on a 3 speed hub, and the Brompton
6s are twin derailleurs on a 3.

> The only thing I'm worried about is the what feels like 1 in 1 gradient
> by the abandoned Fforde Green pub, up which I'm liable to be hauling
> significant quantities of shopping running fully loaded from Tesco - but
> I can always go round down towards St James and up the gentler slopes
> that way instead if it really does overload the power unit.


Or just walk it up the hill. It isn't a crime, it isn't even cheating!

> Mmmm!! Drool!!! Me like! :)


Though note Marten's comments about possible suitability. "More
research needed" before you can assume it'll work.

> Impressive. Wish I still lived in Glasgow, sounds like Kinetics is my
> kind of shop! I've decided on the Gazelle for now. I did look at a
> Ridgeback, Cycle Heaven had one next to the Gazelle I test-rode, and it
> was indeed a very nice bike, but the lure of the "everything built in"
> Dutch machinery, plus that amazingly comfortable riding position, has
> won for now.


Having mentioned the Brom higher up, possibly worth a look as an
alternative. The riding position isn't /quite/ as bolt upright, but it
isn't far off, and you can get them with hub dynamos, integrated pannier
system etc. and they make superb town bikes (my default urban hack is a
Brompton). Having said that, the Gazelle would do getting laden down
with a week's shopping rather better, I'd think.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Pyromancer wrote:
>
> Speaking of epicyclic gearboxen, does it do any harm if you forget to
> stop peddaling when you change, or does it just not change till you
> take the load off?


Speaking as someone who is now riding a bike with the Shimano Nexus 8
hub, that is one of the beautiful things about them. You can approach
the lights in top gear, stop, and then change down to the gear you want
to start off in. As for keeping the load on or off while changing, it
doesn't seem to make any difference while you are going up the gears,
although it seems to stick a bit going down. Taking the load off for a
moment allows the gear to change.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Some people have one of those days. I have one of those lives.
 
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Peter
Clinch <[email protected]> gently breathed:
>Pyromancer wrote:


>> Indeed. I was hoping it was a 3 sprockets plus hub system


>I haven't seen anyone doing that. The DualDrive (and Shimano
>equivalent) are 7+ speed derailleurs on a 3 speed hub, and the Brompton
>6s are twin derailleurs on a 3.


Fairysnuff.

>> The only thing I'm worried about is the what feels like 1 in 1 gradient
>> by the abandoned Fforde Green pub, up which I'm liable to be hauling
>> significant quantities of shopping running fully loaded from Tesco - but
>> I can always go round down towards St James and up the gentler slopes
>> that way instead if it really does overload the power unit.


>Or just walk it up the hill. It isn't a crime, it isn't even cheating!


<*giggle*>

>> Mmmm!! Drool!!! Me like! :)


>Though note Marten's comments about possible suitability. "More
>research needed" before you can assume it'll work.


Indeed, points noted. I'll bear it in mind though, looks like a great
idea in general. Something to have on a touring 'bent perhaps?

>> Impressive. Wish I still lived in Glasgow, sounds like Kinetics is my
>> kind of shop! I've decided on the Gazelle for now. I did look at a
>> Ridgeback, Cycle Heaven had one next to the Gazelle I test-rode, and it
>> was indeed a very nice bike, but the lure of the "everything built in"
>> Dutch machinery, plus that amazingly comfortable riding position, has
>> won for now.


>Having mentioned the Brom higher up, possibly worth a look as an
>alternative. The riding position isn't /quite/ as bolt upright, but it
>isn't far off, and you can get them with hub dynamos, integrated
>pannier system etc. and they make superb town bikes (my default urban
>hack is a Brompton). Having said that, the Gazelle would do getting
>laden down with a week's shopping rather better, I'd think.


When I was still living in Sheffield and commuting to Leeds by train I
seriously considered a Brompton, but I think given my penchant for going
off exploring dirt trails (not to mention some of the appalling road
surfaces round here!) that the Gazelle's big wheels will probably be
"harder wearing" in the long run. And I don't just like the riding
position, I adore it! Sod the aerodynamics, cycling is supposed to be
fun, and riding the Gazelle in York was like travelling in a Mk1 first
class compartment, whereas my old MTB was rather more like being in a
Voyager - did the job, but "they don't make 'em .like they used to".

Btw, thanks to everyone for all the followups and information - it's
been informative and helpful. Cheers!

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>
 
Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:
> Indeed, points noted. I'll bear it in mind though, looks like a great
> idea in general. Something to have on a touring 'bent perhaps?


Nah, just get a Rohloff fitted in the back wheel ... You know it "makes
sense"(TM)! (That said, there do seem to be quite a number of USA-ians
who've fitted Rohloffs *and* Speedhubs into their bikes ...)
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:
> Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:
>
>>Indeed, points noted. I'll bear it in mind though, looks like a great
>>idea in general. Something to have on a touring 'bent perhaps?


> Nah, just get a Rohloff fitted in the back wheel ... You know it "makes
> sense"(TM)! (That said, there do seem to be quite a number of USA-ians
> who've fitted Rohloffs *and* Speedhubs into their bikes ...)


Point of order, m'lud... a "Rohloff" is a Rohloff Speedhub 500/14, the
Schlumpf is a Speed (or Mountain, or Super Speed) Drive.

Ben Cooper's "Ultimate Commuter" has a Schlumpf and a Rohloff to give a
rather OTT gear range of 13 to 133 inches!

My ultimate plan is for a Rohloff, but there's a lot to be said for
replacing a front changer on a derailleur bike with a Schlumpf. Less
fussy and cluttered, less dropped chains and less wear and maintenance.
Also good if there are aspects of the Rohloff that really don't
appeal, like you find the gear steps too large or find twist shifters to
be a Work Of Stan. Or you don't have quite /that/ much money :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:

> Point of order, m'lud... a "Rohloff" is a Rohloff Speedhub 500/14, the
> Schlumpf is a Speed (or Mountain, or Super Speed) Drive.


And another point of order, that's High Speed, not Super Speed...

(D'oh...)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Alistair Gunn wrote:
> Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:


> > Indeed, points noted. I'll bear it in mind though, looks like a great
> > idea in general. Something to have on a touring 'bent perhaps?


> Nah, just get a Rohloff fitted in the back wheel ... You know it "makes
> sense"(TM)! (That said, there do seem to be quite a number of USA-ians
> who've fitted Rohloffs *and* Speedhubs into their bikes ...)


Ok, having seen this strange word "Rohloff" mentioned a few times I
went off to Kinetics website to find some info. Impressed!

Probably not for the Gazelle, at least not till I've given the Shimano
hub a serious evaluation, but I can see that one of those, plus a
mountain-drive speedhub, would probably give me more gears than any
sane cyclist is ever likely to need short of attempting to cycle
vertically up Ribblehead Viaduct...

The Gazelle comes with very impressive hub brakes, so presumably
fitting a Rohloff would mean re-working the driving wheel stopping-gear
significantly, which I don't want to do on a brand new bike, but I'll
definetly bear one in mind for any future bikes.

Speaking of epicyclic gearboxen, does it do any harm if you forget to
stop peddaling when you change, or does it just not change till you
take the load off?
 
Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
> > Nah, just get a Rohloff fitted in the back wheel ... You know it "makes
> > sense"(TM)! (That said, there do seem to be quite a number of USA-ians
> > who've fitted Rohloffs *and* Speedhubs into their bikes ...)

> Point of order, m'lud... a "Rohloff" is a Rohloff Speedhub 500/14, the
> Schlumpf is a Speed (or Mountain, or Super Speed) Drive.


Okay, so just read what I meant rather than what I wrote! <grins>

> Ben Cooper's "Ultimate Commuter" has a Schlumpf and a Rohloff to give a
> rather OTT gear range of 13 to 133 inches!


<fear>
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
Pyromancer twisted the electrons to say:
> Speaking of epicyclic gearboxen, does it do any harm if you forget to
> stop peddaling when you change, or does it just not change till you
> take the load off?


From what I've read (I've only actually ridden a Rohloff-equiped bike for
about 60 seconds!), you only need to *not* pedal with a Rohloff when
changing between gears 7 <-> 8.

The long term plan is that if I replace my (very old!) StreetMachine with
a Grasshopper[1] in March/April then I will eventually fit that with a
Rohloff (and a SON!). Just not straight away because I'm not doing
enough overtime at the moment! <grins>

[1] Haven't quite made up my mind on whether to get a Grasshopper or an
'06 Trice-QNT yet. Trips to D.Tek and Kinetics coming up in March!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 

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