Flashing lights for hub dynamo

[Andre Jute]

I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.

Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.

In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
its own flasher built in, I don't know.

Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
built in.

Thanks.

 

[_]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:10:28 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute wrote:

> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
> is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
> electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
> its own flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.
>
> Thanks.

Do what I did -

Use a flashing LED to trigger a relay. If you like, wire a switch to cut
out the LED and then you can run your lights flashing with a small loss (on
the order of 10ma from the LED and the relay coil) or constant with no
loss.

Of course for use with a dynamo you will have to rectify and filter the
output; but

a) that's as easy as the LED-relay project; if you can do one you can do
the other; and

b) it is trivial to do the rectification and filtering only for the portion
of the circuit involving the LED and relay, so you will not loose any
voltage on the lighting loop.

 

[landotter]

On Jan 18, 4:10 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.

That's nothing a pinwheel and JB Weld couldn't fix.

 

[[email protected]]

Andre Jute skrev:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.

Actually I think the Schmidt hub dynamo is AC and therefore blinks at
low speed;-)

There actually is a very cheap solution that matches your description
very well, the Reelight "SL120 Power Backup Compact". You can get it
here: http://www.reelight.com/Default.aspx?ID=48

Basically it is pair of flashing lights (front and rear and with a 2
min. standlight function). They are driven by induction from magnets
attached to the spokes. They are quite bright and can easily be seen
at daylight, they are of course not of much use to light up the road.
They are extremely common in Denmark; they are cheap, very easy and
very quick to install, and solid since there are no moving parts or
wires.
Reelight was the original inventor and still the has the best version
by far, the clones I see are much dimmer and made of cheaper plastic
that tends to break.


--
Regards

 

[A Muzi]

Andre Jute wrote:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
> is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
> electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
> its own flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.

Although I strongly doubt a human on a bicycle with a dynamo can produce
enough power to be dramatic in broad daylight, any LED of your choice
can be bridged with a simple diode pair to get the required DC current
from your AC source.
Halogen bulbs run hot and aren't suitable to a flash or pulse mode. LEDs
run cold and may be easily set up to pulse in various timed patterns.

Here's a Cateye LED lamp running from a dynamo:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/EL300DY2.JPG

The diode set from a computer power supply.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

Andre Jute wrote:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
> is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
> electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
> its own flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.

Most dynamo users in the UK still run a battery-powered rear LED,
because (a) it saves on wiring, (b) dynamo rear lamps are all rack- or
fender-mounted, so pose a problem if you don't have these and (c)
batteries last so long in flashing rear LEDs that there's little cost
saving by using a dynamo.

I understand the environmental law in Germany is that you *must* use
dynamo power for any lighting if the bicycle weighs more than about 25lb
(12kg?). Below that weight, you're allowed to use batteries, basically
an exemption for racing bikes where fitting a dynamo wouldn't be
practical and would add a significant proportion of the total weight
when it wasn't needed.

 

[Gary Young]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:10:28 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:

> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the hub
> dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights from
> the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version is
> capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the electronics
> of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have its own
> flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven by
> a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.
>
> Thanks.

Does it have to run off a hub dynamo? Reelights seem to be exactly what
you're after:

http://www.reelight.com/

 

[Chalo]

Gary Young wrote:
>
> Does it have to run off a hub dynamo? Reelights seem to be exactly what
> you're after:
>
> http://www.reelight.com/

It's a good idea, but I think those lights would last no more than
about three days on any of my bikes. They're right in harm's way.

Chalo

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 18, 10:10 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
> is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
> electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
> its own flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.
>
> Thanks.

Thank you, gentlemen. I am quite capable of designing and building any
controlling electronics to create such a light from scratch, as Andrew
Muzi suggests, but the cost and the bother of one-offs is always
driven up by carriage costs. Those who are audiophiles as well as
cyclists might enjoy cruising my tube and silicon amp designs and
thoughts on single-ended triode amps, horns and electrostats and box
speakers, available though my netsite, URL below my sig.

As a couple of others have pointed out, perhaps the intention of using
the existing hub dynamo on my bike is a red herring: I would have to
give up the existing lights, driven off it. Still, the concept of
simplifying everything to run off the hub dynamo is aesthetically
attractive because the bike is becoming festooned with lights: front
halogen that came on bike driven off the hub dynamo, front high-power
countryside lamps operated off a bottle battery, rear light that came
on bike (no flash) operated off batteries, rear Cateye LD1100 red
flasher operated off batteries, whatever else I decide on to give a
front flasher. I'm not even a commuter -- I work at home -- and I'm
getting a bit fed up with batteries even though both my rear lights
are very economical of batteries.

So I'm looking into the Reelights that several respondents suggested;
I bought my wife a Volvo estate when our son was born, so I guess I
like daylight running lights! The Reelights seem like an ideal
solution if a version can be found that fits my bike and
circumstances: the bike has hub gears and a full chain case, I have
Bontrager wheels with only 28 spokes which might make fitting the
magnets problematic, the bike's gears and suspension are operated
electronically under computer-control which might make adding whirling
magnets (apparently very strong) a bit fraught, and, finally, in
Ireland we ride on the left of the road and I want to fit the lights
to the righthand side of the bike. I'll write to Reelight and report
the outcome here.

I thought cycling was the simple opiton...

Thanks again to all for your suggestions.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

 

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> finally, in Ireland we ride on the left of the road and I want
> to fit the lights to the righthand side of the bike. I'll write
> to Reelight and report the outcome here.

http://www.ctcshop.com/find.jsp?for...ection=2&sortMethod=4&searchWhat=7&searchFor=

Answers most of your questions I think apart from the computer controlled
suspension/gearing inteference one. Could you tell us more about that?

cheers,
clive

 

[A Muzi]

> Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
>> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
>> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
-snip-
>> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
>> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
>> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
>> built in.

Andre Jute wrote:
> I am quite capable of designing and building any
> controlling electronics to create such a light from scratch, as Andrew
> Muzi suggests, but the cost and the bother of one-offs is always
> driven up by carriage costs. Those who are audiophiles as well as
> cyclists might enjoy cruising my tube and silicon amp designs and
> thoughts on single-ended triode amps, horns and electrostats and box
> speakers, available though my netsite, URL below my sig.
>
> As a couple of others have pointed out, perhaps the intention of using
> the existing hub dynamo on my bike is a red herring: I would have to
> give up the existing lights, driven off it. Still, the concept of
> simplifying everything to run off the hub dynamo is aesthetically
> attractive because the bike is becoming festooned with lights: front
> halogen that came on bike driven off the hub dynamo, front high-power
> countryside lamps operated off a bottle battery, rear light that came
> on bike (no flash) operated off batteries, rear Cateye LD1100 red
> flasher operated off batteries, whatever else I decide on to give a
> front flasher. I'm not even a commuter -- I work at home -- and I'm
> getting a bit fed up with batteries even though both my rear lights
> are very economical of batteries.
> So I'm looking into the Reelights that several respondents suggested;
> I bought my wife a Volvo estate when our son was born, so I guess I
> like daylight running lights! The Reelights seem like an ideal
> solution if a version can be found that fits my bike and
> circumstances: the bike has hub gears and a full chain case, I have
> Bontrager wheels with only 28 spokes which might make fitting the
> magnets problematic, the bike's gears and suspension are operated
> electronically under computer-control which might make adding whirling
> magnets (apparently very strong) a bit fraught, and, finally, in
> Ireland we ride on the left of the road and I want to fit the lights
> to the righthand side of the bike. I'll write to Reelight and report
> the outcome here.
> I thought cycling was the simple opiton...

Induction coil lights can mount upside-down on the other side of the
bike and any similarly sized magnet works fine if you can't adapt the
original to your wheels.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Andreas Oehler]

Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:10:28 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute:

>I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
>motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
>that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.

I don't really understand why someone would want to annoy others with a
flashing light... I tried the Solidlights 1203D in flashing mode - make
you nervous.

You didn't write what flash rate you intent to achieve. A simple solution
would be to use ready available LED-lamps for dynamo systems without (!)
standlight function (front: B&M DLumotec N , back: B&M DToplight) and let
them run on only one halfwave. This is best achieved by shorting out the
other halfwave: Just clamp a simple diode (maybe a 1N4001) in parallel to
the lights. This way you get 13 or 14 flashes per turn of your wheel.

20 km/h equals 2.5 turns per second of a wheel with 700 mm diameter
resulting in 32 to 35 flashes per second. This is still noticable as
un-continuos flashing.

>I don't need
>light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
>built in.

I don't know this system, but it might be comparable to the built-in light
sensor switches in many dynamo headlamps nowadays. You might be able to
position a small week battery-operated LED-"blinky" in front of the
foto-transistor sensor and let it switch the main lights on and off this
way.

Andreas

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 20, 1:42 pm, "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > finally, in Ireland we ride on the left of the road and I want
> > to fit the lights to the righthand side of the bike. I'll write
> > to Reelight and report the outcome here.
>
> http://www.ctcshop.com/find.jsp?formname=findformmenubar&brandPick=Re....
>
> Answers most of your questions I think apart from the computer controlled
> suspension/gearing inteference one. Could you tell us more about that?

I'm not quite sure whether you want to know more about the electronics
of the bike or about the possible interference from the Reelight
magnets. If you want to know more about the bike, there's a photo
essay and extended description of the Shimano Cyber Nexus groupset as
fitted to my bike on my netsite at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700 Smover.html
Usual warnings about technogeek bikep*rn being addictive, of course.

If your question is about interference, the answer is that I don't
know. At the front the magnets will spin past the wires carrying power
from the hub dynamo upwards, and possibly (but I don't consider it
likely) past some part of the electronics of the active front fork. At
the back of the bike the magnets will spin in a circle around the
stepper motor which operates the hub and past the cable which carries
power and computer instructions to the stepper motor unit, which sits
on the right hand side of the hub. I'll ask Reelight about it but it
might be one of those things that answer to the folk wisdom
encapsulated in the lottery slogan, "You'll never know if you don't
have a go."

> cheers,
> clive

HTH. But if it isn't what you want to know, shout and I'll try again.
Photo essays of tours on this bike, including a few more pics of the
bike, start at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Kilmacsimon 1.html

Andre Jute
Visit Andre's bicycles at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE & CYCLING.html

 

[Clive George]

"Andre Jute" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ab32cd65-dfca-4123-95a6-98222aa38314@d21g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

> I'll ask Reelight about it but it
> might be one of those things that answer to the folk wisdom
> encapsulated in the lottery slogan, "You'll never know if you don't
> have a go."

I've read the page, and think you're probably right. TBH I'd just try it - I
reckon the signals to the suspension and gear change will be reasonable
currents, so the reelight magnets won't make any difference there. Those
bits are electrics, rather than electronics, if you see what I mean.

It may well intefere with the speedo pickup you've got there (the wireless
one - I'm guessing that's not Shimano's pickup), but if the speed pickup for
the main computer is in the rear changing bit, I reckon the reelight magnet
will be far enough away. (the danger being that the magnet will trigger the
reed switch which is used as the speed sensor, if it works like the rest of
the world that is...)

cheers,
clive

 

[Andre Jute]

On Jan 18, 10:10 am, Andre Jute <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want a front light that flashes brightly enough to be a warning to
> motorists in daytime and works off a hub dynamo. A flashing rear light
> that can be driven by a hub dynamo would also be welcome.
>
> Because flashing lights are forbidden by law in the heartland of the
> hub dynamo, Germany and the Netherlands, none of the hub dynamo lights
> from the usual manufacturers have aflashing capability.
>
> In fact, the only hub dynamo light with a flashing capability that I
> have so far found is the expensive Solidlights 1203D; it's DR version
> is capable of providing power to a rear light but whether the
> electronics of the 1203 DR will flash a rear light which doesn't have
> its own flasher built in, I don't know.
>
> Is there any other front or rear light that flashes and can be driven
> by a hub dynamo? Preferably with a standlight, of course. I don't need
> light sensor switching as my Cyber Nexus computer has a light sensor
> built in.
>
> Thanks.

Two solutions have been offered:
1. To adapt an existing flashing battery light, say a Cateye, to
working off a hub dynamo.
2. Reelights, the Danish daylight running lights which operate by
induction from spinning magnets on the spokes.

I wrote to Reelights http://www.reelight.com/ about it last night,
referring them to photographs of the bike at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700 Smover.html
and this morning received a reply from Reelight's Glenn Pedersen, of
which I reprint the substantive part:

"I took a look at your bike and I am surprised to learn so much more
about bikes. The amount of good equipment and functions on your bike
is unbelievable!

"I have no experience with Reelights on bikes like yours so I don't
know if the magnets would interfere with the computer. I have seen
interference when the magnets and the censor from an ordinary computer
are mounted on the same side. Suddenly you appear to go faster than
cars."

The speed sensor for my bike's computer is inside the dynohub, so I
might also see interference. (Clive, the wireless computer pickup you
saw is no longer on the bike. It belongs to a Ciclosport HAC4 which
broke and was not replaced because I was brassed off at a EUR300 item
clocking out in less than three years. The Flight Deck which is part
of the Cyber Nexus groupset in any event has a speedo and an odometer,
so a pickup on the fork is superfluous.)

"Looking at the hub areas on your bike I doubt there is any way of
mounting the rear light on the right hand side."

This is a reference to the full crankcase. I am in any event planning
to replace it wiith a Hebie Chainglider as soon as I find someone who
can supply a silver one.

"The front light will also be difficult due to the recessed hub bolt."

Now that's a pity, because at the front is where I really wanted the
flashing light.

"Although it would be great to see Reelights on your bike I think it
is safest to say that the lights will not fit."

"We are working on a solution where the pick up unit and magnets at
the wheel are connected to the light unit by a cable so the [light]
can be mounted freely on the handle bar or seat stay. I think this
will be the Reelight for you."

There we have it. Reelights will not fit with fully enclosed chain
cases at the back or where axle bolts are recessed into suspension
arms. However, Reelight are working on a version where the pickup and
the light itself will be separated which might overcome these
problems. Perhaps when the new lights are ready I will still be in the
market.

***

Thanks once more to all who took interest in my problem and made
constructive suggestions.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE & CYCLING.html

 

[Chalo]

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> I wrote to Reelightshttp://www.reelight.com/about it last night,
> referring them to photographs of the bike at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700 Smover.html

The, um, "customized" elements of your bike are funny. I'm a little
surprised that you don't ride a recumbent, since you seem to think
that the design consensus of the last 100 years is all wrong.

The bar position of your bike is more Dutch than the Dutch, but the
seat tube angle is all American. Doesn't that combination make you
feel like you are pantomiming riding a bike while standing in a
telephone booth?

Don't get me wrong; I like a nice comfy upright position as much as
the next guy-- a lot more than the next guy, actually-- but I wouldn't
want to ride standing straight up with my butt propped up as if on the
edge of a counter. That seems like it could combine the tired feet I
get from just walking around with the average speed of just walking
around.

Chalo

 

[Tom Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>> I wrote to Reelightshttp://www.reelight.com/about it last night,
>> referring them to photographs of the bike at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE Trek Navigator L700 Smover.html
>
> The, um, "customized" elements of your bike are funny. I'm a little
> surprised that you don't ride a recumbent, since you seem to think
> that the design consensus of the last 100 years is all wrong.
>
> The bar position of your bike is more Dutch than the Dutch, but the
> seat tube angle is all American. Doesn't that combination make you
> feel like you are pantomiming riding a bike while standing in a
> telephone booth?
>
> Don't get me wrong; I like a nice comfy upright position as much as
> the next guy-- a lot more than the next guy, actually-- but I wouldn't
> want to ride standing straight up with my butt propped up as if on the
> edge of a counter. That seems like it could combine the tired feet I
> get from just walking around with the average speed of just walking
> around.
>
This would seem more in line for someone who does not like traditional
upright bicycle positions, but does not want a recumbent for whatever
reason: <http://www.ransbikes.com/images/dynamik08L.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth