Food and energy levels

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Burton Figg
Hi,

Normally, during the working day I eat 3 dry cheese sandwiches (made from 6 slices of bread) ....I have
about 6 or 8 slices of toast and jam and a bowl of cornflakes for for b'fast.

I used to have a lot more energy

Jim

Hi Jim

I'm no expert but the first thing that strikes me is the 12-14 slices of bread a day (have I read that right?). That seems excessive - in my own case I notice that I get bloated and tired if I have more than about 4 slices of bread a day.

There's nothing wrong with bread - but I do think you're having too much of it. Cycling Plus usually has articles on nutrition - have a look there.

Good luck

Ian

Burton Figg wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it.

Maybe you're still not eating enough. Six slices of toast is around 300-400 calories, jam will
obviously add some to this, and it depends how big your bowl of cornflakes is (the size of that will
vary things massively).

You mention the commute distance, but how long does it take? Any hills in the journey?

What is your height and weight, and general build?

--
StainlessSteelRat John: Don't you want to live forever? Fox Mulder: Not if drawstring pants come
back into style.

Hi,

generally the ride takes 70 - 80 mins, with a nice descent on the way in and a 10 min ride up the
same big hill on the way back. If you know it it's the main road from Middlewich to Chester, via
Kelsall Hill.

I'm 5'11'', and about 10.75 stone, slim build I'd say.

Thanks

Jim

"StainlessSteelRat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Burton Figg wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it.

Maybe you're still not eating enough. Six slices of toast is around

300-400

Quoted message said:

calories, jam will obviously add some to this, and it depends how big your bowl of cornflakes is
(the size of that will vary things massively).

You mention the commute distance, but how long does it take? Any hills in the journey?

What is your height and weight, and general build?

--
StainlessSteelRat John: Don't you want to live forever? Fox Mulder: Not if drawstring pants come
back into style.

Burton Figg said:

generally the ride takes 70 - 80 mins, with a nice descent on the way in and a 10 min ride up the
same big hill on the way back. If you know it it's the main road from Middlewich to Chester, via
Kelsall Hill.

I'm 5'11'', and about 10.75 stone, slim build I'd say.

I would sit down and work out your typical calorie intake and outtake.

Crosstrainer (innovativelogic.cominnovativelogic.comOpen ↗) is showing a basal metabolic rate based on your
height and weight of about 1600 calories. That amount of cycling is probably around 800 calories per
journey. Assuming you cycle there and back to work you're really looking at an intake of about 3200
calories just to maintain weight, in theory. Of course everyone is slightly different.

You might also want to ensure that you are getting a reasonable balance of proteins and
carbohydrates, and a reasonable recommended daily allowance of vitamins (ideally just from
normal food).

--
StainlessSteelRat

Dana Scully: So we know it wasn't an alien that probed her.

ians said:

I'm no expert but the first thing that strikes me is the 12-14 slices of bread a day (have I read
that right?). That seems excessive - in my own case I notice that I get bloated and tired if I have
more than about 4 slices of bread a day.

I routinely eat ten slices and often more. Bread is good for you :-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

Just for one or two days, try eating a lot more carbohydrate. If you no longer feel tired then
experiment until you find the ideal amount. If you still feel tired then you'll know that it's
something else causing your problem. Some of the things that I find good fuel are pasta, potato
(potato salad is a convenient way of eating potato), chocolate (in moderation), Nutrigrain breakfast
bars, bananas, fig rolls, malt loaf. Some of these can be put in your pocket and eaten while riding
(cut into handy portions if necessary). I find that small amounts of several different foods work
better than a large amount of one. Also make sure that you are drinking enough. Dehydration could
cause your symptoms and you can become dehydrated when cycling long before you feel thirsty. I like
cheese sandwiches as much as you but I don't find them good fuel for cycling - possibly they are
higher in fat and lower in carbohydrate than the ideal fuel?

Mark Burch

"Burton Figg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

What I have been finding recently is that after a ride I am left feeling really drained. The rides
are not very long. I used to commute 11 miles to work, and 11 miles back. That didn't affect me
too much. I recently

changed

Quoted message said:

jobs and now cycle 22 miles to work. Problem is that after the commute I feel dead on my feet at
work, and I was interested to know what I could

eat

Quoted message said:

to try and revive myself a bit, and to give me enough energy to get home

in

Quoted message said:

the evening. I could get the train and then cycle 10 miles home, but it's cheaper to just ride it.

Normally, during the working day I eat 3 dry cheese sandwiches (made from

6

Quoted message said:

slices of bread), 2 apples, and maybe some dried pineapple slices and I

also

Quoted message said:

drink enough water. I don't feel too horrendous coming home, unless there

is

Quoted message said:

a fat headwind barring my way. Tea varies, sometimes we have pasta, sometimes not, but I don't eat
badly. However come the morning I feel

really

Quoted message said:

drained. I generally sleep from about 22:30 to 05:45, which doesn't seem like too little sleep to
me. I have about 6 or 8 slices of toast and jam

and

Quoted message said:

a bowl of cornflakes for for b'fast.

I used to have a lot more energy, so I'm not sure if having kids (now 3

and

Quoted message said:

a half and 2) has had its impact, or what, but it's really annoying!

If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Jim

"Burton Figg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

Normally, during the working day I eat 3 dry cheese sandwiches (made from

6

Quoted message said:

slices of bread), 2 apples, and maybe some dried pineapple slices and I

also

Quoted message said:

drink enough water. I don't feel too horrendous coming home, unless there

is

Quoted message said:

a fat headwind barring my way. Tea varies, sometimes we have pasta, sometimes not, but I don't eat
badly. However come the morning I feel

really

Quoted message said:

drained. I generally sleep from about 22:30 to 05:45, which doesn't seem like too little sleep to
me. I have about 6 or 8 slices of toast and jam

and

Quoted message said:

a bowl of cornflakes for for b'fast.

Well, I'm not a nutrionist. far less a sports nutritionist, but that doesn't sound like a very
balanced diet to me. Lots of bread and not really a lot else. Ok, so it provides carbohydrate but
that's not all the body needs. And is that white bread? I'm sure cornflakes are not known for their
nutrional value either.

Anyway, FWIW I commute around 11~12 miles each way to/from work. My dietary day starts with a
largish bowl of yoghurt and muesli (oats, dried fruit and seeds - mix myself as commercial varieties
tend to have far too much sugar) and fresh fruit. Between breakfast and lunch I'll normally snack on
toast (wholemeal bread, not white) and peanut butter or a couple of slices of malt loaf, lunch could
be a pizza or a couple of pita bread sandwiches with cheese and fresh tomato/salad veg, then more
toast/malt loaf between then and the ride home, after which more snacks - dried fruit/fruit bars
before dinner around 8pm, usually fairly substantial portions of pasta and veg. Often during the day
someone will bring in chocolate - we're all (well mostly all) chocoholics - and I'll have some of
that too. And sometimes fruit smoothies... Oh, and fruit juice....

I don't know that anything special in the way of diet is needed for commuting - I would think that
normal 'common sense' eating should be sufficient - which to me means the usual avoiding fatty,
processed and refined foods and eating wholemeal/organically grown foods as much as possible being
sure to include adequate quantities of fresh fruit and veg - and carbs.

Anyway, if you're feeling drained your body must be trying to tell you something - either sleep
more, or eat more, eat better, or push less hard, or a combination of the three.

Rich

I would suggest slow release energy foods such as bananas and Scotts porridge oats would keep up
your blood-sugar levels. I also find too much water dilutes the effect of food. Personally i
supplement with garlic and Codliver oil tablets. Also try eating an orange just befor your return
trip. You'll find an instant energy boost. Cut down on bread and starchy foods.I also find cutting
out caffeine and tanine (coffe and sugar) helps.

Another problem could be - your mattress - when did you buy anew one and is it right for you? We
changed ours to an orthopaedic one 12-18mnths ago - what a difference!

No expert myself but the above helped me - my commute is only 5 miles each way five or six days per
week but I run at breaktime for up to 30 or sometimes 40 minutes at a fair speed and work a rotating
three shift system.

Alan "Burton Figg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

What I have been finding recently is that after a ride I am left feeling really drained. The rides
are not very long. I used to commute 11 miles to work, and 11 miles back. That didn't affect me
too much. I recently

changed

Quoted message said:

jobs and now cycle 22 miles to work. Problem is that after the commute I feel dead on my feet at
work, and I was interested to know what I could

eat

Quoted message said:

to try and revive myself a bit, and to give me enough energy to get home

in

Quoted message said:

the evening. I could get the train and then cycle 10 miles home, but it's cheaper to just ride it.

Normally, during the working day I eat 3 dry cheese sandwiches (made from

6

Quoted message said:

slices of bread), 2 apples, and maybe some dried pineapple slices and I

also

Quoted message said:

drink enough water. I don't feel too horrendous coming home, unless there

is

Quoted message said:

a fat headwind barring my way. Tea varies, sometimes we have pasta, sometimes not, but I don't eat
badly. However come the morning I feel

really

Quoted message said:

drained. I generally sleep from about 22:30 to 05:45, which doesn't seem like too little sleep to
me. I have about 6 or 8 slices of toast and jam

and

Quoted message said:

a bowl of cornflakes for for b'fast.

I used to have a lot more energy, so I'm not sure if having kids (now 3

and

Quoted message said:

a half and 2) has had its impact, or what, but it's really annoying!

If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Jim

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I routinely eat ten slices and often more. Bread is good for you :-)

I used to do this but I cut bread out a few years back and felt like I had considerably more energy
than before. A lot of people have varying levels of intolerance to certain foods and wheat, in
particular bread, is a fairly common one. Do a search on "neolithic diet +intolerance" for more
info, some of the stuff sounds scary, but they seem to be the extreme cases. I now eat bread again
as my tolerance seems to have increased, but every 6 months or so I cut wheat products out for a
few weeks.

One other side effect/benefit is that you may find you fart a hell of a lot less.

Have (less windy) fun!

Graeme

I think it's important you get some carbohydrate immediately after exertion, especially your morning
commute. Almost anything will do. Eat (and drink) before you start work and the day should go well.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

Thanks Mark, that's really informative. I'll give that a try

Jim

Can't say I know much about nutrition, but I'm sure I read an article recently that said low iron levels can make you feel tired and that exercise lowers iron levels.

Just a thought.

Andy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by andy_welch
Can't say I know much about nutrition, but I'm sure I read an article recently that said low iron levels can make you feel tired and that exercise lowers iron levels.

Just a thought.

Andy

This shouldn't be a problem if you are eating a balanced diet. When you start an aerobic training programme your blood volume can increase (i.e. the water content goes up) which can make you appear anemic ('athletes anemia'😉 but this goes away when your blood cell count increases to balance it out.

A volume of bread and cheese every day is never going to be the basis of a balanced diet! But I don't think that this is your problem, rather your problem is glycogen depletion (you run out of carbohydrate).

Without refueling on your bike glycogen depletion can occur after 1.5 hours and so you arrive at work in a partialy depleted state that gets worse every day.

Make sure you eat breakfast and within 20 minutes after arriving at work. Use your own common sense, you know what foods are good for you and no foods are good for you when eaten in excess.

White bread and wholemeal bread are high glyceamic index (GI)so cause an increase in your insulin levels and a fall in blood sugar which can make you sleepy. Try eating different foods like fruit or soup at work to prevent the increase in insulin. 'WHOLEGRAIN' bread is low GI so is an alternative to wholemeal or white bread that you could try.

There is a good nutrition forum on www.cyclingforums.com

Richard Goodman said:

My dietary day starts with a largish bowl of yoghurt and muesli (oats, dried fruit and seeds - mix
myself as commercial varieties tend to have far too much sugar) and fresh fruit. Between breakfast
and lunch I'll normally snack on toast (wholemeal bread, not white) and peanut butter or a couple
of slices of malt loaf, lunch could be a pizza or a couple of pita bread sandwiches with cheese
and fresh tomato/salad veg, then more toast/malt loaf between then and the ride home, after which
more snacks - dried fruit/fruit bars before dinner around 8pm, usually fairly substantial portions
of pasta and veg. Often during the day someone will bring in chocolate - we're all (well mostly
all) chocoholics - and I'll have some of that too. And sometimes fruit smoothies... Oh, and fruit
juice....

Somebody shoot me if my diet ever ends up as boring as this one!

Simonb

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Simonb

BRichard Goodman said:

My dietary day starts with a largish bowl of yoghurt and muesli (oats, dried fruit and seeds - mix
myself as commercial varieties tend to have far too much sugar) and fresh fruit. Between breakfast
and lunch I'll normally snack on toast (wholemeal bread, not white) and peanut butter or a couple
of slices of malt loaf, lunch could be a pizza or a couple of pita bread sandwiches with cheese
and fresh tomato/salad veg, then more toast/malt loaf between then and the ride home, after which
more snacks - dried fruit/fruit bars before dinner around 8pm, usually fairly substantial portions
of pasta and veg. Often during the day someone will bring in chocolate - we're all (well mostly
all) chocoholics - and I'll have some of that too. And sometimes fruit smoothies... Oh, and fruit
juice....

Somebody shoot me if my diet ever ends up as boring as this one!

Simonb [/B]

Thats my dream diet!

"Burton Figg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What I have been finding recently is that after a ride I am left feeling really drained. ... I
used to have a lot more energy, so I'm not sure if having kids (now 3 and a half and 2) has had
its impact, or what, but it's really annoying!

I dunno if the food is such a factor, as I start the day on 3 strong espressos, ride 50k to work
(first 8k with 2 kids in a trailer), climb 900m and don't eat till lunchtime, when a cheese&ham roll
(say 600 kCal) hits the spot. I probably eat 1600kCal in total each day, and average 2000kCal of
pedalling. Apparently, you get better at burning fat as fitness improves, and I reckon I've enough
fat still to see me through the commute (averaging 80% MHR over a couple of hours).

What does do me in though is broken sleep (e.g., changing a childs sheets at 4am), after which I
definately am not on top form: hills that I'd normally take at 90%+ MHR are more like 70% and my
legs feel like rubber.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I probably eat 1600kCal in total each day, and average 2000kCal of pedalling.

How long have you been doing this for and when do you expect to stop?

Colin

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Rory" == Rory <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

I probably eat 1600kCal in total each day, and average 2000kCal of pedalling.

You can't go on like that for very long or you'll be dead pretty quickly. You must be loosing weight
fast at the moment.

Colin Blackburn <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19775bf9ed19f788989ae3@localhost>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I probably eat 1600kCal in total each day, and average 2000kCal of pedalling.

How long have you been doing this for and when do you expect to stop?

Paul Rudin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You can't go on like that for very long or you'll be dead pretty quickly. You must be loosing
weight fast at the moment.

I've been commuting now for two years, but have ramped up the distances gradually, and as I've got
more efficient (cal burning descreasing) I've added hills to compensate. 2000kCal a day seems about
right, if I do more, I notice that by the end of the week, my HR average is down and resting HR up
(overtraining?).

At first, I et and drank as normal and wasn't loosing any weight, so I had a hard look at the diet,
and cut down to about 1200kCal a day, but this often left me knackered and feeling sick after a ride
(low blood sugar?), so I upped it to 1600 and analysed the make-up against RDA, etc. Mindjew, come
the weekend it curries and pints all the way (two steps forward one step back).

Weight wise, I've come down from 107kg to 76kg - c. 10% body fat, and I'd like to be around 72kg for
an event I'm riding in end of Sept (I've no desire to transport that extra lard up the hills).

But it seems that your own body fat is a fine fuel source - why not use it if you've got it?