fortezza tires



B

bicycle_disciple

Guest
hi guys,

im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these? the
weather here in buffalo is getting drier and temp is rising, to mid
fifties and sixties.

i have a new pair of fortezza vredestein tires tires with threading
that im tempted to put on the bike before the ride. i feel they might
be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these tires on the
road compared to the mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, i would put them on.
im in need of someone's opinion, especially someone who has used
fortezza tires. thx. -b.d
 
L

landotter

Guest
bicycle_disciple wrote:
> hi guys,
>
> im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
> mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
> with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these?


Discussed to death in this group. Tread on skinny road tires makes no
difference, if anything it's more likely to pick up glass and make you
flat.. A little herringbone tread looks snazzy,but makes zero
difference. Base your tire choice on other criteria instead.
 
B

bfd

Guest
"bicycle_disciple" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> hi guys,
>
> im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
> mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
> with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these? the
> weather here in buffalo is getting drier and temp is rising, to mid
> fifties and sixties.
>
> i have a new pair of fortezza vredestein tires tires with threading
> that im tempted to put on the bike before the ride. i feel they might
> be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these tires on the
> road compared to the mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, i would put them on.
> im in need of someone's opinion, especially someone who has used
> fortezza tires. thx. -b.d
>

READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html
 
B

bicycle_disciple

Guest
so you're saying that smooth tires have lower rolling resistance than
treaded tires?

theres differing opinion on mondo and fortezza. im interested in
getting a comfortable ride on moderate to good roads with little or no
room for flats. comparing these two tires is made easier by only
testing them, but i thought before i try on my fortezza road tires, i
should check for some opinions.

a link for the reviews on fortezza :

http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/tires-clincher/vredestein/PRD_33193_2489crx.aspx
 
B

bfd

Guest
"bicycle_disciple" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> so you're saying that smooth tires have lower rolling resistance than
> treaded tires?
>

In most cases the answer is YES! Treads on tires on too small to do
anything.

> theres differing opinion on mondo and fortezza. im interested in
> getting a comfortable ride on moderate to good roads with little or no
> room for flats. comparing these two tires is made easier by only
> testing them, but i thought before i try on my fortezza road tires, i
> should check for some opinions.
>

If you want more comfort, then forget the 700x23s and get yourself some
700x25 or larger tires. 25mm wide tire will have more air volume than a 23mm
and more air volume = lower psi = more comfort. Get a 700x25 tire and pump
up to 95-100psi and enjoy!
 
M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:15:08 -0700, bicycle_disciple wrote:

> hi guys,
>
> im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
> mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
> with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these? the
> weather here in buffalo is getting drier and temp is rising, to mid
> fifties and sixties.
>
> i have a new pair of fortezza vredestein tires tires with threading
> that im tempted to put on the bike before the ride. i feel they might
> be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these tires on the
> road compared to the mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, i would put them on.
> im in need of someone's opinion, especially someone who has used
> fortezza tires. thx. -b.d


I don't know about the Mondo, but I've ridden the Fortezza. It's a nice
tire but has soft rubber, which wears quickly -- less than 2000 miles for
me. The Tricomp might be better, with harder rubber down the middle, but
I still wouldn't consider this tire a mileage champ. It also runs narrow
so get the 25mm at least.

I'm much happier with the Michelin Carbons I'm riding now. The Pro2 Race
are nicer still but more expensive.

Beware of the cheaper "Fortezzas" sold by Performance and Nashbar, labeled
"Fortezza Comp" and "SE." They're nowhere near as good as the real
Fortezza Road and Tricomp, and even "on sale" are no bargain.

Ride what you have and wear them out first, before buying something else.
If you're riding enough it will happen soon enough.

Matt O.
 
J

Jay Beattie

Guest
Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:15:08 -0700, bicycle_disciple wrote:
>
> > hi guys,
> >
> > im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
> > mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
> > with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these? the
> > weather here in buffalo is getting drier and temp is rising, to mid
> > fifties and sixties.
> >
> > i have a new pair of fortezza vredestein tires tires with threading
> > that im tempted to put on the bike before the ride. i feel they might
> > be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these tires on the
> > road compared to the mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, i would put them on.
> > im in need of someone's opinion, especially someone who has used
> > fortezza tires. thx. -b.d

>
> I don't know about the Mondo, but I've ridden the Fortezza. It's a nice
> tire but has soft rubber, which wears quickly -- less than 2000 miles for
> me. The Tricomp might be better, with harder rubber down the middle, but
> I still wouldn't consider this tire a mileage champ. It also runs narrow
> so get the 25mm at least.
>
> I'm much happier with the Michelin Carbons I'm riding now. The Pro2 Race
> are nicer still but more expensive.
>
> Beware of the cheaper "Fortezzas" sold by Performance and Nashbar, labeled
> "Fortezza Comp" and "SE." They're nowhere near as good as the real
> Fortezza Road and Tricomp, and even "on sale" are no bargain.
>
> Ride what you have and wear them out first, before buying something else.
> If you're riding enough it will happen soon enough.


I suckered into the Performance version of this tire, and you're right;
it is heavy, sluggish, and it has poor wet pavement traction -- not
scary, but not nearly as good as a Pro Race. I don't know about the
Carbons, but if they are like the SuperCompHDs of long(ish) ago (when
carbon was what you got without asking), then the Fortezza is not
nearly as good. I put these tires on my roller bike. -- Jay Beattie.
 
C

Chris Nelson

Guest
bicycle_disciple wrote:
> hi guys,
>
> im going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized allez has
> mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. i'm not good
> with tires but is there any special advantage to tires like these? the
> weather here in buffalo is getting drier and temp is rising, to mid
> fifties and sixties.
>
> i have a new pair of fortezza vredestein tires tires with threading
> that im tempted to put on the bike before the ride. i feel they might
> be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these tires on the
> road compared to the mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, i would put them on.
> im in need of someone's opinion, especially someone who has used
> fortezza tires. thx. -b.d


I ride fortezzas exclusively. They give only decent flat protection and
wear but they are velvety smooth and roll as good as anything. I would
recommend them for long rides. I've been using 700x23s and weight
175lbs. No need to go wider but I think they are makin' 'em in 700x25c
now. Never tried the Mondos only because the I've been able to get the
Fortezzas on sale for about a half a Mondo. I've had good luck with
some of the less expensive Specialized though. A little harsher but
more durable. I flat so infrequently, so I'd rather have the ride
comfort.
 
Chris Nelson writes:

>> I'm going for a long ride this weekend, and my specialized Allez
>> has Mondo 700x23c tires that are smooth and have no threading. I'm
>> not good with tires but is there any special advantage to tires
>> like these? The weather here in Buffalo is getting drier and temp
>> is rising, to mid fifties and sixties.


>> I have a new pair of Fortezza Vredestein tires tires with threading
>> that I'm tempted to put on the bike before the ride. I feel they
>> might be heavier but again, if there is more advantage in these
>> tires on the road compared to the Mondo for a 80-100 mile ride, I
>> would put them on. I'm in need of someone's opinion, especially
>> someone who has used Fortezza tires.


> I ride Fortezzas exclusively. They give only decent flat protection
> and wear but they are velvety smooth and roll as good as anything.
> I would recommend them for long rides. I've been using 700x23s and
> weight 175lbs. No need to go wider but I think they are makin' 'em
> in 700x25c now. Never tried the Mondos only because the I've been
> able to get the Fortezzas on sale for about a half a Mondo. I've
> had good luck with some of the less expensive Specialized though. A
> little harsher but more durable. I flat so infrequently, so I'd
> rather have the ride comfort.


Searching for a tire with flat protection is looking in the wrong
place when considering rolling resistance and cornering traction.
Bicycle tires that resist punctures do not perform well in the other
mentioned categories.

Besides, in spite of insistence that flats are a regional problem,
flats are mainly a rider problem; That of understanding of what causes
flats. Few roads are covered with thorns and glass from edge to edge.
Therefore, most flats can be avoided to the level of one or two for
the life of the tire (with exclusion of snake bites that definitely
depend on terrain ridden on a road bicycle).

Jobst Brandt
 
C

Chris Nelson

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Searching for a tire with flat protection is looking in the wrong
> place when considering rolling resistance and cornering traction.
> Bicycle tires that resist punctures do not perform well in the other
> mentioned categories.


It's a tradeoff.

> Besides, in spite of insistence that flats are a regional problem,
> flats are mainly a rider problem; That of understanding of what causes
> flats. Few roads are covered with thorns and glass from edge to edge.
> Therefore, most flats can be avoided to the level of one or two for
> the life of the tire (with exclusion of snake bites that definitely
> depend on terrain ridden on a road bicycle).


That's a pathetic argument. Glass does not predictably congregate, its
distribution is chaotic. To avoid the obvious groupings doesn't always
work in the random acting region in which most of us Iive. Most flats
occur from individual chards too small to see while perched on a
bicycle at 20mph.

Also, I take it you ride alone mostly.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
"Chris Nelson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's a pathetic argument. Glass does not predictably congregate, its
> distribution is chaotic. To avoid the obvious groupings doesn't always
> work in the random acting region in which most of us Iive. Most flats
> occur from individual chards too small to see while perched on a
> bicycle at 20mph.


The statement about glass does not hold. Glass is swept
out of the paths that automobile tires travel. It does
predictable congregate.

--
Michael Press
 
Chris Nelson writes:

>> Searching for a tire with flat protection is looking in the wrong
>> place when considering rolling resistance and cornering traction.
>> Bicycle tires that resist punctures do not perform well in the
>> other mentioned categories.


> It's a tradeoff.


And that depends on what one finds enjoyable about bicycling.

>> Besides, in spite of insistence that flats are a regional problem,
>> flats are mainly a rider problem; That of understanding of what
>> causes flats. Few roads are covered with thorns and glass from
>> edge to edge. Therefore, most flats can be avoided to the level of
>> one or two for the life of the tire (with exclusion of snake bites
>> that definitely depend on terrain ridden on a road bicycle).


> That's a pathetic argument. Glass does not predictably congregate,
> its distribution is chaotic. To avoid the obvious groupings doesn't
> always work in the random acting region in which most of us live.
> Most flats occur from individual chards too small to see while
> perched on a bicycle at 20mph.


That makes a few assumptions about the speed of light and one's
observation abilities. I ride with others who seldom have flats, in
about the frequency that I mentioned above. These are people who see
wildflowers, birds and other wildlife while riding and coincidentally
find many tools and coins on rides.

As I mentioned in the past, those who fear the flat tire the most,
don't find things on the road either. How else do you explain that
many of the contributors to these newsgroups don't have flat tire
problems. They don't all live in cleans-ville. I have ridden here in
California, Nevada, downtown San Francisco, San Jose, Oakland, and
many big cities in Europe including the industrial parts of Milano.

My experience is that I carry a tube and patch kit but seldom use it.
On most of my bicycle rides in the alps, I pump my tires before
leaving California and that's the end of it for the 3000km ride.

> Also, I take it you ride alone mostly.


You are wrong. If you think group riding exposes more flat
possibilities you are riding with the flat folks who think waving
one's hand is enough for following riders to avoid glass or a hole.
It is not. The thoughtful rider does not ride between sharp rocks on
the road while waving the hand, he rides around the debris so that
others can follow safely.

Jobst Brandt
 
B

Brian Phillips

Guest
"bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html


While I could never feel any traction benefit of treaded tires vs. slicks on
my bicycle, I have to disagree with Sheldon's comment in that article that
"motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction". If
true then the MotoGP and Superbike guys wouldn't be pulling out the rain
tires when it gets wet. If you've ever seen the rain tires used by
motorcycle racers, they have LOTS of deep tread. Motorcycles are dealing
with a lot more contact patch and much lower tire pressures than bicycles.
 
B

bicycle_disciple

Guest
Brian Phillips wrote:
> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"
> > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html

>
> While I could never feel any traction benefit of treaded tires vs. slicks on
> my bicycle, I have to disagree with Sheldon's comment in that article that
> "motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction". If
> true then the MotoGP and Superbike guys wouldn't be pulling out the rain
> tires when it gets wet. If you've ever seen the rain tires used by
> motorcycle racers, they have LOTS of deep tread. Motorcycles are dealing
> with a lot more contact patch and much lower tire pressures than bicycles.


i have a 100 mile ride this weekend. i have two choices for tire.
either the new spare pair of fortezza road tires i have (i bought one
on ebay and another on nashbar, and both look different. on one there
is no white reflective lining along the tire perimeter, on the other
there is). the other choice is to go with the mondo stock tires that
came with my bike.

i bought my specialized allez last month so there isnt a lot of mileage
on the mondos. whichever of these two tires are better for one single
100 mile ride with exceptional flat protection, and ride quality, i'll
go with that.

so plz help me make a decision. :)

ron
 
B

bfd

Guest
"bicycle_disciple" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Brian Phillips wrote:
> > "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"
> > > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html

> >
> > While I could never feel any traction benefit of treaded tires vs.

slicks on
> > my bicycle, I have to disagree with Sheldon's comment in that article

that
> > "motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet

traction". If
> > true then the MotoGP and Superbike guys wouldn't be pulling out the rain
> > tires when it gets wet. If you've ever seen the rain tires used by
> > motorcycle racers, they have LOTS of deep tread. Motorcycles are dealing
> > with a lot more contact patch and much lower tire pressures than

bicycles.
>
> i have a 100 mile ride this weekend. i have two choices for tire.
> either the new spare pair of fortezza road tires i have (i bought one
> on ebay and another on nashbar, and both look different. on one there
> is no white reflective lining along the tire perimeter, on the other
> there is). the other choice is to go with the mondo stock tires that
> came with my bike.
>
> i bought my specialized allez last month so there isnt a lot of mileage
> on the mondos. whichever of these two tires are better for one single
> 100 mile ride with exceptional flat protection, and ride quality, i'll
> go with that.
>
> so plz help me make a decision. :)
>

Do you think any of these 700x23 tires are really going to make a big
difference in ride quality? All of the tires mentioned are probably going to
provide the same amount of "flat protection," so I say use the one you got
on the bike now. pump them up to 100-110psi and just RIDE!
 
B

bicycle_disciple

Guest
thanks bfd...im now like damn the tires. just finish the ride and
enjoy.


bfd wrote:
> "bicycle_disciple" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Brian Phillips wrote:
> > > "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"
> > > > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html
> > >
> > > While I could never feel any traction benefit of treaded tires vs.

> slicks on
> > > my bicycle, I have to disagree with Sheldon's comment in that article

> that
> > > "motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet

> traction". If
> > > true then the MotoGP and Superbike guys wouldn't be pulling out the rain
> > > tires when it gets wet. If you've ever seen the rain tires used by
> > > motorcycle racers, they have LOTS of deep tread. Motorcycles are dealing
> > > with a lot more contact patch and much lower tire pressures than

> bicycles.
> >
> > i have a 100 mile ride this weekend. i have two choices for tire.
> > either the new spare pair of fortezza road tires i have (i bought one
> > on ebay and another on nashbar, and both look different. on one there
> > is no white reflective lining along the tire perimeter, on the other
> > there is). the other choice is to go with the mondo stock tires that
> > came with my bike.
> >
> > i bought my specialized allez last month so there isnt a lot of mileage
> > on the mondos. whichever of these two tires are better for one single
> > 100 mile ride with exceptional flat protection, and ride quality, i'll
> > go with that.
> >
> > so plz help me make a decision. :)
> >

> Do you think any of these 700x23 tires are really going to make a big
> difference in ride quality? All of the tires mentioned are probably going to
> provide the same amount of "flat protection," so I say use the one you got
> on the bike now. pump them up to 100-110psi and just RIDE!
 
C

Chris Nelson

Guest
Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> "Chris Nelson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > That's a pathetic argument. Glass does not predictably congregate, its
> > distribution is chaotic. To avoid the obvious groupings doesn't always
> > work in the random acting region in which most of us Iive. Most flats
> > occur from individual chards too small to see while perched on a
> > bicycle at 20mph.

>
> The statement about glass does not hold. Glass is swept
> out of the paths that automobile tires travel. It does
> predictable congregate.
>
> --
> Michael Press


That's true, if you ride in the automobiles' tire grooves, you will get
a nice smooth glass-free track. In my region, that would involve
certain death.

Chris
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
Quoth Brian Phillips:
>
>>READ the Bicycle FAQ on "slicks:"
>>http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/slicks.html

>
>
> While I could never feel any traction benefit of treaded tires vs. slicks on
> my bicycle, I have to disagree with Sheldon's comment in that article that
> "motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction".


I have never made such a comment. I make no claim to be any sort of an
expert on motorcycling.

You're quoting Jobst Brandt there, not me.

Sheldon "It Ain't Me..." Brown
+---------------------------------------+
| There's nothing like not being dead |
| to improve a fellow's outlook. |
| -- Michael Flynn |
+---------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
A

Antti Salonen

Guest
Chris Nelson <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's true, if you ride in the automobiles' tire grooves, you will get
> a nice smooth glass-free track. In my region, that would involve
> certain death.


This may seem like a dumb question, but where does all this glass that
keeps puncturing your tyres come from? I can barely remember having a
flat tyre while riding on the road, because they are generally clean
from any debris. This is in Finland, but the roads in other European
countries I've ridden in (Germany, Austria, Italy, etc.) are no worse in
this regard.

Cycling or multi-use paths are a different story, but I would generally
avoid them anyway. Roads, at least here, are much better for cycling.

-as