Frame quality versus component quality?

[artemidorus]

Now, such a blanket statement just doesn't work. Perfect function is available with any material, whether it's steel, CF, or whatever. Function is material independent, while it's dependent on design, construction, fit, and QC.

Ti can certainly be worth the money. It's worth is solely dependent on the buyer's needs and desires. What if the user desires a bike for which he doesn't have to worry about paint upkeep? Well, then Ti is the material he'd want to look at.

There is nothing inherently wonderful or perfect about steel or aluminum.

If I have implied that composite frames are less functional than others, then I will take pains to point out that this was not my intent. (My MTB is composite.) My point is that, if you choose to pay the higher price of a composite frame, you're not by definition getting more speed, comfort, nimbleness or whatever else that you wanted simply because it is composite.
The situation in the US may be different, but here Ti is prohibitively expensive. If paint upkeep/lack thereof is the major advantage of Ti, then I think that you've made my point for me.
There is nothing wonderful about Al or steel (I think you'd find that I'm hardly a steel worshipper on this forum!) - I just don't like the way that the marketers and the alleged gurus are succeeding in throwing these materials on the scrap heap.

 

[alienator]

If I have implied that composite frames are less functional than others, then I will take pains to point out that this was not my intent. (My MTB is composite.) My point is that, if you choose to pay the higher price of a composite frame, you're not by definition getting more speed, comfort, nimbleness or whatever else that you wanted simply because it is composite.
The situation in the US may be different, but here Ti is prohibitively expensive. If paint upkeep/lack thereof is the major advantage of Ti, then I think that you've made my point for me.
There is nothing wonderful about Al or steel (I think you'd find that I'm hardly a steel worshipper on this forum!) - I just don't like the way that the marketers and the alleged gurus are succeeding in throwing these materials on the scrap heap.

Well, then we almost completely agree.

 

[leamcorp]

Having been through a similar experience, here's a view from someone who is also new to road cycling (though not new to cycling as I've been riding hybrid(s) for over 10 years). I've had my new road bike for about 3 months.

Forget about finding a right fitting bike. I don't think this is possible as we are too new to the road bike to know what feels right or wrong. We could sort of guess what feels comfortable, but after couple of returns and 1-2 month later, I finally found the right bike.

There are just too many variables to consider and it took many adjustments on my own to fit the bike to my body shape or to my liking. Even couple of centimeter of seat position, seat angle, seat post height, handle bar width, handle bar position/angle, and cleat position can change the dynamic of your ride. For example, after riding few miles, I've noticed that my quad was getting extremely tired - and my seat position was optimized by the LBS. When I've raised the seat post by few centimeter, I was able to off load some of the quad force, into the calve and my speed increased full 1 additional mph.

So as someone new to the road cycling, find the one that fit reasonable well and make sure that your LBS have a return/exchange policy.

As for choosing the bike, its a compromise between your ideal brand/image/cool factor and value. I chose the bike based on my impression of the brand (cool factor? - it matters) and value (I bought a closed out model because it had a better component/frame). While everyone talks about why this or that components is better, I couldn't tell you the difference between Tiagra/105/ultegra, etc. If it shifted, then I knew it worked - nothing more.

Although experienced riders will know more about aluminum vs composite - at our stage of road cycling, everything is arbitrary. Questions that went through my mind at the time is - composite looks more sexy (stupid reasoning, but at our level, impression does matter), do you want more lighter frame (in my case, carbon was heavier than aluminum model I was looking at), etc. So buy the brand and model that your money could buy.

There are other factors to consider - for example, I didn't know what compact/double/triple gearing was. When test riding at the parking lot, those consideration doesn't really come into play. Again, we can only go with what others say and don't have a experience enough to select what we want.

Don't forget to put extra money away for shoes and a saddle. From my experience, the saddle was the most important part of my riding experience. I've must of tried 10 different saddles and finally found the right one. Without that right saddle, I probably wouldn't be into cycling so much. The right shoe is also critical item. You have to be comfortable to enjoy the sport. Unfortunately, shoe is one item that my LBS didn't allow return after its worned. So I now have a one useless shoe sitting in my porch

The bike I've finally chosen was/is Fuji Team, which is a full carbon/105/ultegra. I didn't choose this bike because of its name/components/carbon, etc. I bought it because it fit and was on a closed-out sale, which is always a good reason. The bike I really wanted was specialized Roubeux Comp (I think, it was a aluminum/carbon fork bike) but didn't want to pay full MSRP.

Again, based on my recent experience, it didn't matter which bike I chose as I would of done exactly same - spending about 2 months getting to know the bike and adjusting every part that is adjustable to find the sweet spot. Now that bike is fairly optimized to my liking, I'm really enjoing the ride.

Hope this helps.

 

[Wkender]

Again, based on my recent experience, it didn't matter which bike I chose as I would of done exactly same - spending about 2 months getting to know the bike and adjusting every part that is adjustable to find the sweet spot. Now that bike is fairly optimized to my liking, I'm really enjoing the ride.

Hope this helps.

Leamcorp,

That was the most up front speech I was looking for . Thank you for taken the time out to explain. I wonder where are you form? How do you find LBS that willing to do exchange? I ask few store but no such luck.

Also, During these two months of your search...how much time did you and the LBS allow you to spend on testing the bike?

I'm in Southern California area, though it is a large city with many bike stores around...I'm having difficult time to find a store with lots of selections (Different Brands and series to choices) And when I go from one store to another, usually few days or weeks afterward, I tends to lose the "feel" of the previous bike that I tested.

I understand what your're saying about the impression of what you feel is just and reasonable in price. But when I'm about to spend a good amount of $$ on a recreational vehicle, I can't help to stop wondering if the I'm making a good investment on this bike??!!!

I guess like what you've said, I'm older and able to spend a little more than when I was a teen. I wanted it to look good on it, but also wanted to give me a good use of it and- motivate me to keep healthy. So, guess the search continue.
Thanks again for your informative comments.

 

[pistole]

The bike I've finally chosen was/is Fuji Team, which is a full carbon/105/ultegra

- hi.

- great post.

- I have one too :

- its unfortunately , my most disliked bike. The classic geometry doesn't
help. My compacts ride alot better.

cheers.
.

 

[janiejones]

It is a myth that composites provide ANY shock absorbance beyond the attenuation, to a degree, of high-frequency buzzes and hums and beyond the shock absorbance inherent in the frame design, which will be achieved with any material designed the correct way.
Composites are used extensively on bicycle frames because that is what the market wants, not because of clear inherent superiority. And because you can make them into weird shapes more cheaply, again something that the market seems to want.They are considered pretty.
Carbon stays ride pretty much the same as Al, steel or Ti stays.
Firstly, get the frame that fits. For the best value, get Al frame and 105/Veloce components. Spend your savings on nice, deep profile wheels if you're going to race or you like to cruise fast, or else bank'em.

Spot on!

 

[leamcorp]

Leamcorp,

That was the most up front speech I was looking for . Thank you for taken the time out to explain. I wonder where are you form? How do you find LBS that willing to do exchange? I ask few store but no such luck.

Also, During these two months of your search...how much time did you and the LBS allow you to spend on testing the bike?

I'm in Southern California area, though it is a large city with many bike stores around...I'm having difficult time to find a store with lots of selections (Different Brands and series to choices) And when I go from one store to another, usually few days or weeks afterward, I tends to lose the "feel" of the previous bike that I tested.

I understand what your're saying about the impression of what you feel is just and reasonable in price. But when I'm about to spend a good amount of $$ on a recreational vehicle, I can't help to stop wondering if the I'm making a good investment on this bike??!!!

I guess like what you've said, I'm older and able to spend a little more than when I was a teen. I wanted it to look good on it, but also wanted to give me a good use of it and- motivate me to keep healthy. So, guess the search continue.
Thanks again for your informative comments.

I live in East Coast near Philly. I had a same problem until I found a shop that was "sort of" willing to let me test the bike over few days. I had to promise a lot to get this deal (including signing/paying for one of their expensive trip to New England). It was worth it as if I've pick the wrong bike, it would of turned into a cloth hanger. Go to everyshop and pry, pry, pry (make sure you talk to the owner, not an employee).

As mentioned, I just don't think you could find the right bike on first try. Even if they let you go out for 30-45 minutes, you still won't be able to determine if that is the right bike. I found out hard way in that what I found comfortable (around the parking lot or bit more) became extremely uncomfortable when riding more than 20-30 miles. I guess that is about the range where you should know if you are going to like the bike (butt-o-meter and back-o-meter is best indication). Everything else can be adjusted.

As pistole mentioned, he didn't like the frame while I did. So just go and try and try until you find a one that fit reasonably well (for your size). Don't put all your faith in LBS as they will just give you a bike for budget you mention. It doesn't matter if you are built for compact or classical or whatever geometry, they will just show you couple of bikes around that price. So plan on test riding bikes from several different price point. This will give you a good idea of different types of bicycles. For example, if your budget is $2000, then start from entry level ($5,6,700) and upto your budget level. You'll be surprise which bike might feel more comfortable. Don't worry about components/adjustments - everything else could/can be upgraded/changed as you get more into cycling. I'm already looking for lighter wheel and its only been 3 months (addicting factor - but only if you like your bike).

I'm also older (42) and like you I could of spent whatever I wanted to. Over a couple of week period, I either could of bought $600 Scott Sportster or move up the chain all they way to $8000 Orbea. In the end, I decided to be sane and go for a fairly good bike and if need - buy a better bike in few years.

One thing I have to tell you is that this is probably one of the best excercise that I've have ever done. I thought I was extremely fit (thought I did) as I've been body building for many years. But after 40+ miles, I wish I was back at the gym. This thing is hard and my body is reacting very well (cardio is best it ever been and without dieting, my body is getting much leaner). I'm going to try century ride in September - or attemp to!

Good luck and just get it.