Gearing problem on new 10 speed?

[jenkins214]

Hello all,

I am new to cycling and loving it. I recently bought an 04 Fuji Roubiax and I am enjoying it. My brother got a bike so we can ride together and this is the source of my question. We found a great deal at the local bike store on a Fuji Bordeaux, it came with Campy Veloce 10 speed. The bike store told us that some of the gears were not usable because the chain would pop off! He builds quite a few bikes and I have seen the local bike club memebers in there. Is he correct? On a 10 speed can you not use all of the combinations?

I tried searching the archives but didn't find an answer.

Thanks in advance for the reply's.

Rick

 

[boudreaux]

Hello all,

I am new to cycling and loving it. I recently bought an 04 Fuji Roubiax and I am enjoying it. My brother got a bike so we can ride together and this is the source of my question. We found a great deal at the local bike store on a Fuji Bordeaux, it came with Campy Veloce 10 speed. The bike store told us that some of the gears were not usable because the chain would pop off! He builds quite a few bikes and I have seen the local bike club memebers in there. Is he correct? On a 10 speed can you not use all of the combinations?

I tried searching the archives but didn't find an answer.

Thanks in advance for the reply's.

Rick

You really don't or should not use all the gear combinations on any 7 thru 10 speed.Especially not the big chainring/big cog or the smal/small combination. Some don't even use the 3 biggest cogs or 3 smallest cogs when in the respective chainrings,but that's a bit extreme. The BS about the chain popping off is just BS.

 

[jenkins214]

You really don't or should not use all the gear combinations on any 7 thru 10 speed.Especially not the big chainring/big cog or the smal/small combination. Some don't even use the 3 biggest cogs or 3 smallest cogs when in the respective chainrings,but that's a bit extreme. The BS about the chain popping off is just BS.

That's what I was thinking... It isn't good practice to stay the those combinations for any period of time but you should be able to get on them and move to a different combo without dropping the chain right? this actually drops (chain comes off the back cog) the chain.

Is something installed wrong or just adjusted incorrectly?

Thanks

 

[boudreaux]

That's what I was thinking... It isn't good practice to stay the those combinations for any period of time but you should be able to get on them and move to a different combo without dropping the chain right? this actually drops (chain comes off the back cog) the chain.

Is something installed wrong or just adjusted incorrectly?

Thanks

Chain dropping is usually bad adjusrment,but can have other causes.

 

[Dave539]

You need to look at chain length. Also, is it the right chain. Is the rear wheel in the middle of the chainstays? Is the chain falling off in the front or back? If it's falling off in front, check the front derailleur. Many shops position the front derailleur incorrectly. Is the frame aligned correctly - it's new, but look at the rear triangle of the frame. Sometimes chains pop off when going over a real bumpy road while shifting. In general that chain should stay on. My chain on my $7 commuter yard sale bike has very low end Shimano stuff from the 80's and that chain never falls off. The Veloce group is a decent group, and that chain should stay on. Do chains pop off, yeah, every now and then, but not frequently. Good luck. Go to another bicycle store and get another opinion.

Hello all,

I am new to cycling and loving it. I recently bought an 04 Fuji Roubiax and I am enjoying it. My brother got a bike so we can ride together and this is the source of my question. We found a great deal at the local bike store on a Fuji Bordeaux, it came with Campy Veloce 10 speed. The bike store told us that some of the gears were not usable because the chain would pop off! He builds quite a few bikes and I have seen the local bike club memebers in there. Is he correct? On a 10 speed can you not use all of the combinations?

I tried searching the archives but didn't find an answer.

Thanks in advance for the reply's.

Rick

 

[boudreaux]

You need to look at chain length. Also, is it the right chain. Is the rear wheel in the middle of the chainstays? Is the chain falling off in the front or back? If it's falling off in front, check the front derailleur. Many shops position the front derailleur incorrectly. Is the frame aligned correctly - it's new, but look at the rear triangle of the frame. Sometimes chains pop off when going over a real bumpy road while shifting. In general that chain should stay on. My chain on my $7 commuter yard sale bike has very low end Shimano stuff from the 80's and that chain never falls off. The Veloce group is a decent group, and that chain should stay on. Do chains pop off, yeah, every now and then, but not frequently. Good luck. Go to another bicycle store and get another opinion.

He doesn't currently have a problem.He just got a load of LBS BS.

 

[jenkins214]

Thanks for the feedback.

My brother is going to take the bike to another shop and have them take a look at it. It just sucks to spend the money to correct something that should be fixed by the seller (lbs). But, why take it back if he doesn't know how to fix it?

Thanks Again.

 

[li0scc0]

Hello all,

I am new to cycling and loving it. I recently bought an 04 Fuji Roubiax and I am enjoying it. My brother got a bike so we can ride together and this is the source of my question. We found a great deal at the local bike store on a Fuji Bordeaux, it came with Campy Veloce 10 speed. The bike store told us that some of the gears were not usable because the chain would pop off! He builds quite a few bikes and I have seen the local bike club memebers in there. Is he correct? On a 10 speed can you not use all of the combinations?

I tried searching the archives but didn't find an answer.

Thanks in advance for the reply's.

Rick

You can use all the combinations, I have used Veloce 10 and Veloce 9, and all the combinations are fine. A chain popping off can often be corrected by the front derailleur limit adjuster.

 

[boudreaux]

You can use all the combinations, I have used Veloce 10 and Veloce 9, and all the combinations are fine. A chain popping off can often be corrected by the front derailleur limit adjuster.

Even if you can, you shouldn't.Try getting a brain.

 

[artmichalek]

I have the Veloce 9s tripple, which has the same cassette spacing as the 10s, and haven't had problems like that. Even though riding in high cross combinations can cause excessive wear, the chain should never come off if things are adjusted properly. I'd take the bike back to the shop where you bought it and demand that they set it up properly.

 

[boudreaux]

I have the Veloce 9s tripple, which has the same cassette spacing as the 10s, and haven't had problems like that. Even though riding in high cross combinations can cause excessive wear, the chain should never come off if things are adjusted properly. I'd take the bike back to the shop where you bought it and demand that they set it up properly.

Well, the casette may be approx the same overall width,but the cog spacing certainly isn't the same. it's 4.55 vs 4.12.

 

[artmichalek]

Well, the casette may be approx the same overall width,but the cog spacing certainly isn't the same. it's 4.55 vs 4.12.

That's why i said cassette spacing not cog spacing. Sorry if my terminology didn't meet your exacting standards. And the overall width is not approximately the same, it's exactly the same. That's why the hubs are compatable with both. What matters is that the angle of the chain in the extreme gear combinations is the same, and that the chain shouldn't come off in any of them.

 

[boudreaux]

That's why i said cassette spacing not cog spacing. Sorry if my terminology didn't meet your exacting standards. And the overall width is not approximately the same, it's exactly the same. That's why the hubs are compatable with both. What matters is that the angle of the chain in the extreme gear combinations is the same, and that the chain shouldn't come off in any of them.

Then you should have said casette width.The hub and freehub body width are the same width(for campy anyway,others may vary a bit), but the cog and spacer stack adds up to .16mm wider for 10 speed. AFWIW, given manufacturing tolerances,it's unlikely any of them are EXACTLY the same width, if you want to get down and dirty.

 

[li0scc0]

Even if you can, you shouldn't.Try getting a brain.

Tell me why you shouldn't? I can think of numerous instances, especially in fierce headwinds, where such might be advantageous. It is quicker to click once on the rear derailleur than to shift both the front and the rear, and if it works fine then I am at a loss to understand why we should limit our 18 or 20 speeds to 12 speeds.

 

[boudreaux]

Tell me why you shouldn't? I can think of numerous instances, especially in fierce headwinds, where such might be advantageous. It is quicker to click once on the rear derailleur than to shift both the front and the rear, and if it works fine then I am at a loss to understand why we should limit our 18 or 20 speeds to 12 speeds.

Rationalize it any way that makes you feel good.It's your bike. Don't whine if expensive gear goes TU prematurely. I'm never going to recommend it and think a brain is a much better bet. BTW, the 12 speed business is BS that I don't recall being mentioned.

 

[li0scc0]

Rationalize it any way that makes you feel good.It's your bike. Don't whine if expensive gear goes TU prematurely. I'm never going to recommend it and think a brain is a much better bet. BTW, the 12 speed business is BS that I don't recall being mentioned.

Some have said you should not use the big chainring with the biggest three cogs, and the little chainring with the smallest three cogs. So, to demonstrate I do have a brain, albeit at a first grade level, I will do the subtraction for you....18 gears-3-3=12. This effectively reduces the 18 gears to 12 usable gears (or if you started with 20, it would reduce the 20 to 14), if you determine that those 6 gears should not be used.
As for the brain comment, you are not making sense. The goal is to ride in the most efficient gear in the most efficient manner. This advancement in technology (remember when 10 speed meant 10 total gears, not 10 in the back?) should be used when it makes sense and when the equipment allows for it.
Of course the real question is does the equipment allow for such usage? All I have provided is anecdotal evidence that it does in fact allow for such usage. Take that for what you will, I will say that, in general, anecdotal evidence is worth very little.
Cheers.

 

[JohnO]

Tell me why you shouldn't? I can think of numerous instances, especially in fierce headwinds, where such might be advantageous. It is quicker to click once on the rear derailleur than to shift both the front and the rear, and if it works fine then I am at a loss to understand why we should limit our 18 or 20 speeds to 12 speeds.

I have personally seen three bad results of using extreme chain angles:

1. Excessive chain wear.
2. Excessive wear on cogs on both ends
3. In a couple of cases, excessive wear on the rear hub bearings.

Your bike won't fall apart the moment you go big-big, or small-small, but if you make a regular practice of it, or do it under a heavy load like climbing a hill, you will be buying expensive parts sooner than you expected. Campy cassettes and Record 10 chains aren't cheap.

 

[dhk]

Tell me why you shouldn't? I can think of numerous instances, especially in fierce headwinds, where such might be advantageous. It is quicker to click once on the rear derailleur than to shift both the front and the rear, and if it works fine then I am at a loss to understand why we should limit our 18 or 20 speeds to 12 speeds.

Avoiding extreme chain angles is more efficient too. In addition to less friction from bending the chain, the torque best when the chain is square to the axle. Anytime the chain is is at an angle, rather than perpendicular to the rear axle, some % of chain pull is going into pulling the axle sideways...and not helping get you down the road.

 

[li0scc0]

Then you should have said casette width.The hub and freehub body width are the same width(for campy anyway,others may vary a bit), but the cog and spacer stack adds up to .16mm wider for 10 speed. AFWIW, given manufacturing tolerances,it's unlikely any of them are EXACTLY the same width, if you want to get down and dirty.

Hey boudreaux, the sky is blue today. Just thought I would say that so you can find another reason to disagree with somebody. It seems to make you happy.

 

[boudreaux]

Some have said you should not use the big chainring with the biggest three cogs, and the little chainring with the smallest three cogs.

That's the BS part. There is good sense,and than there is the nonsense or overkill. I won't argue with them if that is the way they want to do it.But I won't agree it's necessaary. It also takes a brain to separate wheat from chaff. Them without one should just go ride their bikes and be happy in their ignorance, for I have given my all.