Got pulled over riding a bike yesterday!



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In article <[email protected]>, Rich Clark <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, wearing headphones while operating a vehicle is illegal most places.

He mentioned it but didn't say they were a violation. They are open air headphones, so I hear
everything fine. In fact, I don;t wear them all the time because It becomes pointless if I'm going
to be near a lot of traffic.

> Where were you when this happened?

Lakewood, California.
 
> Thanks for doing the home work. The way I read it means; that you can ride with one earphone.

Possibly correct.

>It also gives me one more reason for getting those Bose noise cancelling earphones.

Possibly *incorrect*. I quote the code again:

> > (iii)nonprosthetic, closed-ear, open-back, electronic noise-cancellation devices designed and
> > used to enhance the hearing ability of persons who operate vehicles in high-noise
> > environments, provided any such device is being worn by the operator of a vehicle with a
> > gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more.

NB the proviso that they may be worn in high-noise environments where the gross weight rating of the
vehicle is 26,000 pounds, or more. From time to time this NG has discussed the equipment needs of
"clydesdale" riders--but should this provision apply to you and your bicycle, I think it might be
a record of some sort.

The provision that headphones not cover both ears, absent the conditions stipulated above, remains
in effect. Wearing those Bose headphones while riding a bicycle is therefore *illegal* in the
Commonwealth of Virginia.

Something like this, however:

<http://www.clearercom.com/index.htm>

May be permissible. The headphone is only in one ear, and it can be connected to a communications
system. Although the language of the statute specifically permits the use of such a device on
*motorcycles,* I am unsure as to whether such a device would be permitted on regular pedal cycles.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The foregoing has been my own understanding of that section of the
code, after a close reading of its provisions. For proper advice, seek proper professional
assistance.

-Luigi
 
Marlene Blanshay wrote:

> Something like that happened to me years ago! My boyfriend and I were riding our bikes (regular
> old crappy bikes at the time) and all of a sudden these cops pulled us over! They said we matched
> the description of a couple who had just committed a robbery in the area. They were shining a
> flashlight in our faces and it just struck me as so absurd I was laughing, and one of them said
> severely, "It's not a joke." Duhhhh. I was just wondering who would be doing a getaway from a
> robbery on BIKES?

Back in the 70's in Toronto the "10 Speed Bandit" robbed several banks in downtown T.O. His m.o. was
always the same. A big bank in the congested downtown area, at rush hour. Handgun, baseball cap,
sunglasses, and a 10 speed bike outside the door. He'd escape by simply speeding off thru the normal
afternoon crush of cars, often going the wrong way on one way streets. I don't think he was ever
caught. Bernie
 
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, bgaudet0801 <[email protected]> wrote:

> What if you aren't carrying ID? I often do not.

In NYC, if they arrest you and you have no ID, they then take you in and hold you until someone can
come in and identify you. During the Guiliani years I think this meant you were taken downtown to
the central holding jail. You could be held for 24 hours.

The one time I was arrested in NYC was pre-Guiliani. One of us was a jogger that did not have his
identification with him. One of the not arrested cyclists had to take his key and go to his
apartment to get his wallet.

Don <donwiss at panix.com>.
 
"Don Wiss" <donwiss@no_spam.com> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, bgaudet0801 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > What if you aren't carrying ID? I often do not.
>
> In NYC, if they arrest you and you have no ID, they then take you in and hold you until someone
> can come in and identify you.

Arrest me for what though? I'm riding along and let's say I don't commit any minor traffic
infractions but the cop thinks I might look like the 70's Toronto 10 speed bandit and I dont
have any ID.

What can the cop do? Can they really hold me until I identify myself?
 
[email protected] (Luigi de Guzman) wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
><snip headphone use on bikes illegal in some states of the US>
>
> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The foregoing has been my own understanding of that section of the
> code, after a close reading of its provisions. For proper advice, seek proper professional
> assistance.
>
> -Luigi

If you WHERE a lawyer no doubt you could convince that it is illegal NOT to wear headphones ;)

Fragg
 
x-no-archive:yes

> ><snip headphone use on bikes illegal in some states of the US>
> >
> > Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The foregoing has been my own understanding of that section of
> > the code, after a close reading of its provisions. For proper advice, seek proper professional
> > assistance.
> >
> > -Luigi
>
> If you WHERE a lawyer no doubt you could convince that it is illegal NOT
to
> wear headphones ;)
>
> Fragg

If he "where" a lawyer, he'd tell you that the word you are looking for is spelled "WERE."

Pat in TX
 
x-no-archive:yes

> >
> > > What if you aren't carrying ID? I often do not.
> >
> > In NYC, if they arrest you and you have no ID, they then take you in and hold you until someone
> > can come in and identify you.

>
> Arrest me for what though? I'm riding along and let's say I don't commit
> any minor traffic infractions but the cop thinks I might look like the
70's
> Toronto 10 speed bandit and I dont have any ID.
>
> What can the cop do? Can they really hold me until I identify myself?

I heard the answer to this on a legal call-in show today with the local federal attorney's office.
The answer is: Yes, if the cop has a reason to believe that you are putting him in danger or if he
is looking for someone and you fit the description....and, of course, if you are behaving
suspiciously, which is up to him to determine.

Pat in TX
 
bgaudet0801 wrote:

>
>
> What can the cop do? Can they really hold me until I identify myself?
>

Here in the Empire they can do as they please. Perhaps you have not had time to read the news over
the last 20-30 years.

--
Regards, Joe
 
"Luigi de Guzman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Quiet Desperation <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<230820032036177372%[email protected]>...
> > I was pulled over by a police car on Friday while biking on my day off.
> >
> > My only crime was I fit a local profile of a solitary man riding a bike during the day on a work
> > week.> > A sweaty guy wearing an iPod and headphones on a bike fits a profile? And I was on the
> > home stretch of my ride against a hefty head wind, so I way just tooling along pretty leisurly.
>
> You're lucky he didn't book you for riding with headphones. Many states prohibit this outright,
> for instance, Virginia:

Yeah, I thought about that too. I usually have my MP3 player going, but I usually am riding off-road
too. The iPod's are cool, but I can get 4 hours worth of audion on my MP3 which isn't too bad.
iTunes is interesting. Do you like the iPod headphones?

James
 
"Duffy Pratt" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been pulled over 3 times:
>
>First was about 20 years ago, for speeding. It was a long downhill stretch and I was going 40+ in a
>35 mph zone. I asked the cop to give me a ticket, but he wouldn't.
>
>The other times were in a nearby neighborhood where a cop seems to have it in for cyclists. Both
>times he stopped me for running a stop sign at an empty 4 way stop in a quiet neighborhood. He
>warned me both times that if he saw me do it again, he would give me a citation. The second time I
>said that if I had to stop at every single stop sign, it would be completely pointless to ride in
>the area, and he said that that was the idea.

I'm guessing he wasn't talking about the occasional cyclist coming through the area, but that it is
probably a convenient shortcut for drivers who can bypass busy roads through the neighborhood (hence
all the stop signs and a cop to watch 'em). Here, they just put in lots of speed bumps and try to
screw up the road plan enough that you can starve to death trying to find your way out of many of
the neighborhoods... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
"Quiet Desperation" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:240820031153226276%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Rich Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Well, wearing headphones while operating a vehicle is illegal most
places.
>
> He mentioned it but didn't say they were a violation. They are open air headphones, so I hear
> everything fine.

I tried that argument in court, once. I was ticketed for wearing headphones while driving.

(I was doing so because my car radio had been stolen, I was trying to get to a doctor's appointment,
and was trying to avoid traffic jams by listening to traffic reports on my portable radio. In an
effort to be responsible, I had the window open so I would be sure to hear approoaching emergncy
vehicles, even though it was freezing cold outside. Had the window been closed, of course, the
officer would not have even been able to see the headphones.)

I brought the headphones, and demonstrated that I could listen to normal conversation in the
courtroom with the radio on. I offered to let the judge try them. I explained the mitigating
circumstances. I asked the officer who issued the citation whether there was anything about my
driving that called his attention to me (there wasn't).

None of this had any effect. Was I wearing the headphones? Yes. Guilty.

RichC
 
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 02:38:54 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

> (hence all the stop signs and a cop to watch 'em).

Here we have a saying. If there is a fatal traffic accident in Wisconsin, they put up a cross with
flowers around it on the side of the road.

In Minnesota, they put up a stop sign.
 
Bernie wrote:
> Back in the 70's in Toronto the "10 Speed Bandit" robbed several banks in downtown T.O. His m.o.
> was always the same. A big bank in the congested downtown area, at rush hour. Handgun, baseball
> cap, sunglasses, and a 10 speed bike outside the door. He'd escape by simply speeding off thru the
> normal afternoon crush of cars, often going the wrong way on one way streets. I don't think he was
> ever caught.

I think you're just a little too clear on those details, Bernie. We'd like to have you come in and
answer a few questions. ;-
 
"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes I heard the answer to this on a legal call-in show today with the local federal
> attorney's office. The answer is: Yes, if the cop has a reason to believe that you are putting him
> in danger or if he is looking for someone and you fit the description....and, of course, if you
> are behaving suspiciously, which is up to him to determine.

But let's follow this through logically. [I realize different jurisdictions have different laws but
let's try to be general]

I'm stopped because I might looked like someone the police are looking for.

I am asked for ID which I do not have.

The police have the right to hold me until I can produce ID? Even though they don't know the name
of the person they are looking for? So my identifying myself doesn't really exonerate me from being
the 'suspect' they are looking for?

I think common sense versus eminent police domain has to enter into it here:

It's a 'gotcha' law - one that you really can't win. It gives LE the right to detain but is widely
ignored - like a 10 kph speed limit in a parking lot.

Of course the end result - assuming you don't blow a gasket and set yourself up for another
'gotcha' law like obstruction - they really can't do anything to you. They will eventually have to
let you go - with or without
ID.
 
Art Harris wrote:

> Bernie wrote:
> > Back in the 70's in Toronto the "10 Speed Bandit" robbed several banks in downtown T.O. His m.o.
> > was always the same. A big bank in the congested downtown area, at rush hour. Handgun, baseball
> > cap, sunglasses, and a 10 speed bike outside the door. He'd escape by simply speeding off thru
> > the normal afternoon crush of cars, often going the wrong way on one way streets. I don't think
> > he was ever caught.
>
> I think you're just a little too clear on those details, Bernie. We'd like to have you come in and
> answer a few questions. ;->

It wasnt me. I was away that day. No one would recognize me anyway. I can't ride that fast. 8-}
 
In article <230820032036177372%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>I was pulled over by a police car on Friday while biking on my day off. My only crime was I fit a
>local profile of a solitary man riding a bike during the day on a work week. The officer checked by
>ID, asked where I lived, where I was headed and if I was on parole (!), and then just sent me on my
>way. He was very civil, but the whole thing struck me as weird. I asked if some crime had happened
>in the last few minutes, but he said no, and that's when he came right out and told me about the
>profile. A sweaty guy wearing an iPod and headphones on a bike fits a profile? And I was on the
>home stretch of my ride against a hefty head wind, so I way just tooling along pretty leisurly.
>Anyone else have this happen? It didn't even strike me as odd initially. I thought I just had a
>good little cycling tale, but it seems odder and odder the more I think about it.

I would have refused to comply with his requests unless he had a good reason. It's non of his
business what I am doing, where I am going or even who I am.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
 
Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article
> <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>> He gave me the standard: 'Have to follow the rules. It's still counts as demerits against your
>> licence.'

> Actually, in some places it doesn't count as anything on your drivers license. The cops, and some
> court clerks, don't know this and will report it to the DMV when they should not be doing it.
> Check your local laws.

I once had my car insurance cancelled because the insurance company claimed I had lied to them about
never having had a ticket, when some credit bureau said I had. This was after I specifically asked
the agent if a ticket on a bike counted, and was told by the home office that it didn't. Apparently
the credit bureau didn't make the distinction. I never found out how they even knew about it; are
tickets for minor violations considered public information?

--
Ray Heindl (remove the X to reply)
 
bgaudet0801 wrote:
>
>
> I'm stopped because I might looked like someone the police are looking for.
>
> I am asked for ID which I do not have.
>
> The police have the right to hold me until I can produce ID? Even though they don't know the name
> of the person they are looking for? So my identifying myself doesn't really exonerate me from
> being the 'suspect' they are looking for?

Here's the scenario. A crime is committed and a vague description of the suspect is given to the
police. Acting on limited details they search and find you who loosely fits the description. They
obviously don't have enough reason to arrest you so they ask for ID, record your info and
description down for later use. If they collect more evidence (say a second eyewitness that was
scared to come forward) it may turn out that you fit the description very well. You are now a
suspect and they would need to get in touch with you. Hard to do if you remain anonymous.

I know this isn't the case every time you get pulled over but it's standard procedure because it is
a possible scenario in some cases.
 
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