Greipel vs. Cavendish.

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by tonyzackery, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    That would be a battle I'd be willing to pay a buck to see...

    Nobody can challenge Griepel at the Vuelta...Farrar, Bennati, Boonen, Friere - all left in his wake.
     
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  2. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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  3. jamie72

    jamie72 New Member

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    My money's on Cavendish.
     
  4. Scotttri

    Scotttri Member

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    I second that, not to say Griepel cant do it, but outa 10 sprints I think Cav would get 6 or 7
     
  5. yum

    yum New Member

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    agreed
     
  6. Andrija

    Andrija Member

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    But he's not the only one with odds like that. There are others too, in other teams, as well in his. On the other hand, these others have better odds against Greipel. I don't know what odds would Cavendish have without Greipel against these others. The sooner Greipel leaves Columbia the better.
     
  7. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Greipel May Support Cavendish At Tour De France | Cyclingnews.com

    I hope this pisses off Greipel so much that he demands to be released from his contract. I've read somewhere that the two don't like each other already and this development will definitely not help the matter...this situation will become untenable, quickly, I believe...
     
  8. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Greipel Not Happy With Milan-San Remo Exclusion | Cyclingnews.com

    Yeah, baby!

    They'll be on separate teams before you know it - Cavendish going over to Sky is my prediction.

    Easy to give this type of interview after-the-fact as you know Greipel wouldn't have been singin' this tune had Cav done a decent turn at MSR, irrespective of his (Cav's) previous "racing" (using that term loosely here) this season...

    "When it comes down to a sprint, you can count on me". Wow. I'm sure that'll burn the last of strings holding the bridge together between these two...
     
  9. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    As well he ought to be gutted (Grepiel) that is, Tony.

    Everyone knows Cav's form has been rubbish so far. For all we know his sprint may be as good or even better than ever. The problem seems to be that his aerobic fitness is mediocre relative to past years. I'll avoid the obvious references to spiked cocktails and orange juice...

    Greipel meanwhile has acquitted himself well and his form consistent. Seeing as Milan-San Remo inevitably ends in a bunch sprint (notable recent exceptions being Sean Kelly & Cancellara for their one-time victories), you may as well have a sprinter on your team that can at least get over La Cipressa & Il Poggio with the bunch. Instead once Cavendish was predictably shelled mid-race, Columia HTC were reduced to a popgun attack my Mick Rogers in the last 10km.
     
  10. steve

    steve Administrator
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    Good point, Mick's attack did look a bit soft!
     
  11. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    King Cav on Sky ? That would be interesting, no doubt.

    Wouldn't mind getting used to those Pinarello's. :)
     
  12. tafi

    tafi Member

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    MSR is not always a forgone conclusion...

    To Kelly and Cancellara you need to add Pozzato, Bettini, Tchmil, Jalabert, Fondriest, Bugno and possibly a few others who won from breaks and small group sprints since Kelly's last one. Telekom and Zabel created the illusion that this is "always" a sprinters' race.

    But I digress..

    Greipel is still the fastest man thus far in 2010.

    Cavendish was no chance in San Remo after the troubles he had in the off season. Blind Freddy could have seen that. Yet Columbia still persisted with him even though Greipel has had much better form and already many more wins this year.

    I'm not saying that Cavendish has done his dash. I'm sure he'll come back, but a smart director should have seen this coming, put Greipel in and told Cavendish to cool his jets until the Tour. Instead Peiper/Aldag/Stapleton decided base their decision on what happened 12 months ago.

    Now they have an angry Gorilla on their hands.....:p
     
  13. Maxiton

    Maxiton New Member

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    Maybe so. I guess I can understand Greipel's anger, but I don't think the decision was made out of gratitude for the past twelve months; it was made for what the past twelve months promise for this year and all the coming years. Greipel is a fast sprinter, but Cavendish is a certified phenomenon. (And while he may remain the fastest man on two wheels, I'd like to see him morph into more of an all rounder as years go by - if he's interested in doing that - in which case he would be, at the very least, formidable.) In any case when he's on form he's all but impossible to beat. And Greipel can get bent.
     
  14. seldonbilly

    seldonbilly New Member

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    Greipel can hardly claim to be surprised that Columbia favour Cavendish - it's his decision to stay there and benefit from strong support in non-Cavendish races. If he doesnt like it, he could go and try his luck elsewhere with a weaker train..
     
  15. tafi

    tafi Member

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    How very adult of you...

    I've never said that Cavendish doesn't have class as a sprinter. But I haven't seen anything from him that is vastly different to what we've seen from other Jack rabbits in their prime like Zabel or McEwen (pure sprinters who were/are both fairly successful without a train).

    I also wasn't talking about gratitude. Form of last season is NO indication of form in the coming seasons (there is no rule of nature or mathematics that suggests this is the case) and directors should know that. The best you can do is use the stronger correlation between the rider's preparation and race performances.

    My point was that (all personal preferences and prejudices aside) a team like Columbia, which has massive resources, many training tools, and keeps in regular contact with their riders should have known that Cav's preparation was rubbish compared the preparation he's had for his winningest moments. They should also have known that Greipel was going much better. We all know that just from reading the news. A smart team would have done better with their selections. After all, a team's purpose is to win, not pander to one rider (whether Cav or Greipel makes no difference).

    But if you want to argue about who was there first, that was Greipel who had been a memeber of T-Mobile (HTC's precursor) since 2006. Cavendish arrived in 2007.

    I agree, however, that the only way this will be recitfied is if either one leaves. I have a feeling it will happen soon, and then the showdown will be a good one.
     
  16. tafi

    tafi Member

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    How very adult of you...

    I've never said that Cavendish doesn't have class as a sprinter. But I haven't seen anything from him that is vastly different to what we've seen from other Jack rabbits in their prime like Zabel or McEwen (pure sprinters who were/are both fairly successful without a train).

    I also wasn't talking about gratitude. Form of last season is NO indication of form in the coming seasons (there is no rule of nature or mathematics that suggests this is the case) and directors should know that. The best you can do is use the stronger correlation between the rider's preparation and race performances.

    My point was that (all personal preferences and prejudices aside) a team like Columbia, which has massive resources, many training tools, and keeps in regular contact with their riders should have known that Cav's preparation was rubbish compared the preparation he's had for his winningest moments. They should also have known that Greipel was going much better. We all know that just from reading the news. A smart team would have done better with their selections. After all, a team's purpose is to win, not pander to one rider (whether Cav or Greipel makes no difference).

    But if you want to argue about who was there first, that was Greipel who had been a memeber of T-Mobile (HTC's precursor) since 2006. Cavendish arrived in 2007.

    I agree, however, that the only way this will be recitfied is if either one leaves. I have a feeling it will happen soon, and then the showdown will be a good one.
     
  17. Maxiton

    Maxiton New Member

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    OK, OK, I guess I got a little carried away. Let's say he can get "temporarily reshaped."

    Maybe you haven't but everyone else has. McEwen and Zabel were both impressive in their time, but Cavendish goes beyond impressive. He doesn't just win often and decisively, he wins most of the time and most often by a hair raising margin.

    What are you talking about? "Form of last season is NO indication of form in the coming seasons (there is no rule of nature or mathematics that suggests this is the case)" . . . Do you really think everyone starts every season as a blank slate? That directors and others don't (or shouldn't) base their expectations of a rider on past performances? They do and they should.

    If only they had known where to reach you, I'm sure they would have called for advice. As it was, though, they had to get along by their own devices and thus handicapped made a bad decision. Or not.

    Riders have to be cultivated and nurtured, especially when they're younger. They go through peaks and valleys and you can't expect to keep the best if you're decisions are based solely upon short term results. You pick your team and assign roles based upon both results and prospects. If you asked people in racing, both pros and fans, which sprinter has the best prospects for the future, you know whose name you would hear, and it wouldn't be Greipel.
     
  18. tafi

    tafi Member

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    They should, should they? Why exactly?

    Are you saying that because someone wins a race last season that they will do it again? I'd be wanting to make sure their training and preparation was up to scratch before I even thought about placing a bet on a repeat victory.

    Cavendish may win 10 Milano-San Remo races. He may also never win it again in his life. The fact that he won last year has absolutely no bearing on this.
    Each and every race is an independent event and is not influenced by past happenings.

    Even the fact that he "has the potential" (whatever that means) doesn't magically make it happen.

    The only indicator (still no basis for a concrete prediction) of performance is what is happening closest to the here-and-now. The indicator here is from his preparation, where he spent a lot of time sorting dental problems instead of training.

    Preseason was also a pretty good indicator for the fortunes of Freire, Boonen and Petacchi (ie: theirs was trouble free).
     
  19. genedan

    genedan New Member

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  20. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    Spoken like a complete and utter imbecile. Talk about insulting the field....'won it last year picking my nose'? More like won it by a nose over Haussler due to Hushovd being awol in the final sprint.

    Regarding small races, I well recall Cav out in let's see Qatar, Tour of Missouri, Tour of Ireland....not exactly big name races...

    Rumor has it that at least some of the big-name departures from HTC this past season were due to the Cav's elephant sized ego.

    Apparently the EPO and believing his own legend bit too convincingly, have affected his brain...
     
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