Half-step and granny.

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Alpha Beta, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Alpha Beta

    Alpha Beta Guest

    Having read the following article: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/2945/Gears/Gears.html

    I want to try the half-step and granny crankset setup describe below:

    For my RANS Rocket I want a 53-50-30 crankset. (The Rocket comes with a 62-52-39 so I won't be
    chaning the teeth count differential.) I have been experimenting a little the problem seems to be
    the impossiblity of finding a front derailer which will allow this. A inner plate of the triple
    front derailleur chain guide cage, because the plate is so deep, seems to get blocked by the middle
    chainwheel when trying to shift into the large chainwheel.

    I though of using a double derailleur since the inner plate is shallower. I thought that if I
    loosening the low stop as much as I can, this might work but the double does not have enough travel
    to accomodate the a triple crankset.

    Does anyone know of derailleur which will allow this odd crankset setup? Has anyone had experience
    with a half-step and granny setup?

    Since Ultegras have replaceable chain guide cages, I was thinking of buying a Ultegra triple front
    derailleur, but replacing the chain guide cage with a double's chain cage.

    Does anyone know if the the mount of the replaceable chain cages allow for this swap?

    Can anyone having both a double and triple Ultegra front derailleur take a look and tell me if they
    judge the chain cages to be swapable?
     
    Tags:


  2. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    Your 53 is so close to your 50, have you considered just going to a 2 chainwheel front?

    Alpha Beta wrote:
    > Having read the following article:
    > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/2945/Gears/Gears.html
    >
    > I want to try the half-step and granny crankset setup describe below:
    >
    > For my RANS Rocket I want a 53-50-30 crankset. (The Rocket comes with a 62-52-39 so I won't be
    > chaning the teeth count differential.) I have been experimenting a little the problem seems to be
    > the impossiblity of finding a front derailer which will allow this. A inner plate of the triple
    > front derailleur chain guide cage, because the plate is so deep, seems to get blocked by the
    > middle chainwheel when trying to shift into the large chainwheel.
    >
    > I though of using a double derailleur since the inner plate is shallower. I thought that if I
    > loosening the low stop as much as I can, this might work but the double does not have enough
    > travel to accomodate the a triple crankset.
    >
    > Does anyone know of derailleur which will allow this odd crankset setup? Has anyone had experience
    > with a half-step and granny setup?
    >
    > Since Ultegras have replaceable chain guide cages, I was thinking of buying a Ultegra triple front
    > derailleur, but replacing the chain guide cage with a double's chain cage.
    >
    > Does anyone know if the the mount of the replaceable chain cages allow for this swap?
    >
    > Can anyone having both a double and triple Ultegra front derailleur take a look and tell me if
    > they judge the chain cages to be swapable?
     
  3. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    While I can't comment on newer components, you should be able to find nos or used Huret Shimano, and
    Suntour front derailers at your LBS or at an auction sight. Rivendell bicycles might also be worth a
    try. They had an article in the Rivendell Reader some time ago about half step. I have half step on
    my old Bridgestone touring wedgie, and it is quite elegant. My old Shimano unit has a sticker on it
    that says "for half-step gearing."

    In an era of 9 speed cassettes, half-step and its near perfect spacing isn't really necessary
    anymore. One of the primary advantages for old touring bikes was a reduction in wheel dish and chain
    deflection. With the advent of wider dropout spacing as a trickle-down from mountain bike
    components, these advantages became somewhat irrelevant. Since the long chain line of a bent makes
    chain deflection even more of a non-factor, I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with half-step.
    If it is the novelty of an old system that worked very well in its era, then by all means, go for
    it. :) But if you expect to make any significant gain in useable gearing for your Rocket, I think
    you will be disappointed.

    Rob, who marvels at the dishless wheel of his Vision R40, but is still adjusting to the inability to
    get out of the saddle for bumps to protect his wheel.

    "Alpha Beta" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Having read the following article:
    > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/2945/Gears/Gears.html
    >
    > I want to try the half-step and granny crankset setup describe below:
    >
    > For my RANS Rocket I want a 53-50-30 crankset. (The Rocket comes with a 62-52-39 so I won't
    > be chaning the teeth count differential.) I have been experimenting a little the problem
    > seems to be the
    impossiblity
    > of finding a front derailer which will allow this. A inner plate of the triple front derailleur
    > chain guide cage, because the plate is so deep, seems to get blocked by the middle chainwheel when
    trying
    > to shift into the large chainwheel.
    >
    > I though of using a double derailleur since the inner plate is shallower.
    I
    > thought that if I loosening the low stop as much as I can, this might work but the double does not
    > have enough travel to accomodate the a triple crankset.
    >
    > Does anyone know of derailleur which will allow this odd crankset setup?
    Has
    > anyone had experience with a half-step and granny setup?
    >
    > Since Ultegras have replaceable chain guide cages, I was thinking of
    buying
    > a Ultegra triple front derailleur, but replacing the chain guide cage with
    a
    > double's chain cage.
    >
    > Does anyone know if the the mount of the replaceable chain cages allow for this swap?
    >
    > Can anyone having both a double and triple Ultegra front derailleur take a look and tell me if
    > they judge the chain cages to be swapable?
     
  4. I have heard it said that with a little judicious work with a grinding wheel on a Dremel or similar,
    a modern front mech can be modified to work with half-step gearing.

    Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  5. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > While I can't comment on newer components, you should be able to find nos or used Huret Shimano,
    > and Suntour front derailers at your LBS or at an auction sight. Rivendell bicycles might also be
    > worth a try. They had an article in the Rivendell Reader some time ago about half step. I have
    > half step on my old Bridgestone touring wedgie, and it is quite elegant. My old Shimano unit has a
    > sticker on it that says "for half-step gearing."
    >

    Gawd, that must be ancient. Shimano made "half-step" and "alpine" versions of the same front
    derailleur in the late '80's. I think they were available in Deore and Deore XT grades.

    Jeff
     
  6. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    ancient, hey...

    oh nevermind. The derailler I was refering to is 1985. Doesn't really seem that long ago. It was
    also match to the 'antelope' rear derailler with three jockey pulleys. Alas, my poor antelope died,
    so I replaced with a Duopar. Those were the days of big chain wrap.

    Rob Kopp "Jeff Wills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > While I can't comment on newer components, you should be able to find
    nos or
    > > used Huret Shimano, and Suntour front derailers at your LBS or at an
    auction
    > > sight. Rivendell bicycles might also be worth a try. They had an
    article
    > > in the Rivendell Reader some time ago about half step. I have half step
    on
    > > my old Bridgestone touring wedgie, and it is quite elegant. My old
    Shimano
    > > unit has a sticker on it that says "for half-step gearing."
    > >
    >
    > Gawd, that must be ancient. Shimano made "half-step" and "alpine" versions of the same front
    > derailleur in the late '80's. I think they were available in Deore and Deore XT grades.
    >
    > Jeff
     
  7. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > ancient, hey...
    >
    > oh nevermind. The derailler I was refering to is 1985. Doesn't really seem that long ago. It was
    > also match to the 'antelope' rear derailler with three jockey pulleys. Alas, my poor antelope
    > died, so I replaced with a Duopar. Those were the days of big chain wrap.
    >

    Geez... ancient *weird* parts- right down my alley. I used to have one of those Suntour LePree
    3-pulley derailleurs: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/suntour/rd/arx3.html At least it worked better
    than the Huret Duopar titanium rear that I had. I could never get the Duopar to work right.

    The kids today don't know how good they got it.

    Jeff
     
  8. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    Ahhh, Jeff

    Here I am, trying out this whole new thing, buying a recumbent to (prematurely) celebrate my 40
    years, and you have me back on memory lane. I sitll have the old B-Stone with the eco version of the
    duopar, which works great. Now that I have the R40, that poor old bike will probably collect some
    dust. As one of the few true mass-market touring bicycles, I don't really want to let it go. Maybe
    an occassional ride when I get over the comfort of sitting on this lawnchair with pedals.

    Rob, who should really be paper-writing for his seminary class right now :) "Jeff Wills"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > ancient, hey...
    > >
    > > oh nevermind. The derailler I was refering to is 1985. Doesn't really
    seem
    > > that long ago. It was also match to the 'antelope' rear derailler with three jockey pulleys.
    > > Alas, my poor antelope died, so I replaced with a Duopar. Those were the days of big chain wrap.
    > >
    >
    > Geez... ancient *weird* parts- right down my alley. I used to have one of those Suntour LePree
    > 3-pulley derailleurs: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/suntour/rd/arx3.html At least it worked
    > better than the Huret Duopar titanium rear that I had. I could never get the Duopar to work right.
    >
    > The kids today don't know how good they got it.
    >
    > Jeff
     
  9. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Ahhh, Jeff
    >
    > Here I am, trying out this whole new thing, buying a recumbent to (prematurely) celebrate my 40
    > years, and you have me back on memory lane. I sitll have the old B-Stone with the eco version of
    > the duopar, which works great. Now that I have the R40, that poor old bike will probably collect
    > some dust. As one of the few true mass-market touring bicycles, I don't really want to let it go.
    > Maybe an occassional ride when I get over the comfort of sitting on this lawnchair with pedals.
    >

    :))

    I'll be 40 in May... but I've been around recumbents and HPV's since the late '70's and the Human
    Powered Speed Championships at Ontario Motor Speedway. Now that I no longer work in the bike
    business, I can afford some luxuries: a wife (OK, she's a necessity), 3 'bents, 2 uprights and a
    garage full of bike parts. The only thing better than a recumbent bike is... two recumbents!!

    A little history and pictures of my collection: http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html

    Jeff
     
  10. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Jeff Wills wrote:
    > ... Now that I no longer work in the bike business, I can afford some luxuries: a wife (OK, she's
    > a necessity), 3 'bents, 2 uprights and a garage full of bike parts....

    ... and I hope new tube socks. :)

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
    Dragonflyer
     
  11. OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.

    Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling magazine back,
    in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )

    In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling magazine put
    out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to re-subscribe) that explained
    his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for whichever sprocket/chainring combination
    you were using.

    Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30 possible
    gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)

    Lewis.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html

    .............................

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > ancient, hey...
    >
    > oh nevermind. The derailler I was refering to is 1985. Doesn't really seem that long ago. It was
    > also match to the 'antelope' rear derailler with three jockey pulleys. Alas, my poor antelope
    > died, so I replaced with a Duopar. Those were the days of big chain wrap.
    >
    > Rob Kopp "Jeff Wills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > While I can't comment on newer components, you should be able to find
    > nos or
    > > > used Huret Shimano, and Suntour front derailers at your LBS or at an
    > auction
    > > > sight. Rivendell bicycles might also be worth a try. They had an
    > article
    > > > in the Rivendell Reader some time ago about half step. I have half step
    > on
    > > > my old Bridgestone touring wedgie, and it is quite elegant. My old
    > Shimano
    > > > unit has a sticker on it that says "for half-step gearing."
    > > >
    > >
    > > Gawd, that must be ancient. Shimano made "half-step" and "alpine" versions of the same front
    > > derailleur in the late '80's. I think they were available in Deore and Deore XT grades.
    > >
    > > Jeff
     
  12. Lewis,

    Plus, the advantage of half-step gearing was more available gears with closer spacing between the
    gears than the usual bike setup. I set up my Santana with a half-step and an 8 speed cluster in
    1997. Even with a 11-32 eight speed, the tooth difference between the large and the middle chain
    ring is 3 teeth. Hardly seems worth it. The Record road derailleur handles the front shifts
    smoothly, even though it is 7 years old.

    Tim Storey

    "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.
    >
    > Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling magazine
    > back, in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )
    >
    > In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling magazine
    > put out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to re-subscribe) that
    > explained his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for whichever sprocket/chainring
    > combination you were using.
    >
    > Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30 possible
    > gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)
    >
    > Lewis.
    >
    > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    >
    > .............................
    >
    >
    >
    > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > ancient, hey...
    > >
    > > oh nevermind. The derailler I was refering to is 1985. Doesn't really
    seem
    > > that long ago. It was also match to the 'antelope' rear derailler with three jockey pulleys.
    > > Alas, my poor antelope died, so I replaced with a Duopar. Those were the days of big chain wrap.
    > >
    > > Rob Kopp "Jeff Wills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > While I can't comment on newer components, you should be able to
    find
    > > nos or
    > > > > used Huret Shimano, and Suntour front derailers at your LBS or at an
    > > auction
    > > > > sight. Rivendell bicycles might also be worth a try. They had an
    > > article
    > > > > in the Rivendell Reader some time ago about half step. I have half
    step
    > > on
    > > > > my old Bridgestone touring wedgie, and it is quite elegant. My old
    > > Shimano
    > > > > unit has a sticker on it that says "for half-step gearing."
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Gawd, that must be ancient. Shimano made "half-step" and "alpine" versions of the same front
    > > > derailleur in the late '80's. I think they were available in Deore and Deore XT grades.
    > > >
    > > > Jeff
     
  13. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Jeff Wills wrote:
    > > ... Now that I no longer work in the bike business, I can afford some luxuries: a wife (OK,
    > > she's a necessity), 3 'bents, 2 uprights and a garage full of bike parts....
    >
    > ... and I hope new tube socks. :)
    >

    Nuthin' but wool socks nowadays. Vurry comfie. :cool:

    Jeff
     
  14. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    Lewis,

    Yes I remember it well. The younger, faster riders and the older wiser riders. At the time of those
    tests I was a younger, not so wise rider. I ran a 14-19 straight block 6 on my Motobecane racing
    bike. While it is trick for a High Schooler, I think I'm paying the price for it now. While I
    haven't had any knee surgeries, my knees are a little tender when standing for the last five or six
    years. Purchasing the Vision 40 for road riding should just about take care of this little problem.

    It was not until a friend offered his Bridgestone T700 that I played with half-step, and my memory
    served me well. I set up the T700 with an alpine 14-32 cluster and 24/44/48 chainrings. For those
    who are really interested in playing with half-step, an old alpine cluster combined with a 4 tooth
    difference is about the easiest way to set it up. (Typical alpine is 14-17-20-24-28)

    I'm not sure what use my blathering is in relation to recumbents. With the advent of 9 speed
    cassettes and dishless wheels, half-step is a wistful memory. It worked at least as well as having
    all of those duplicate gears does now. But most folks didn't get the shift pattern (witness the
    other posts questioning the small difference in chainring teeth). I wonder what ol' Frank thinks
    about this new stuff.

    Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Half-step
    and granny.

    > OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.
    >
    > Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling magazine
    > back, in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )
    >
    > In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling magazine
    > put out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to re-subscribe) that
    > explained his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for whichever sprocket/chainring
    > combination you were using.
    >
    > Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30 possible
    > gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)
    >
    > Lewis.
    >
    > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    >
    > .............................
     
  15. Mark Stonich

    Mark Stonich Guest

    [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in message news:
    > Geez... ancient *weird* parts- right down my alley. I used to have one of those Suntour LePree
    > 3-pulley derailleurs: http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/suntour/rd/arx3.html At least it worked
    > better than the Huret Duopar titanium rear that I had. I could never get the Duopar to work right.

    Most of the problems weren't with the DuoPar itself. Most people didn't know how to orient them on
    the hangers, I saw very few at 45 degrees to the ground.

    Also they were designed to work with very little cable travel and high cable tension. Most people
    used them with SunTour BarCon shifters, which were designed to work with derailleuers requiring a
    lot of cable travel at low cable tension. When using them with a DuoPar you had to crank the
    friction screw down to where the shifters no longer moved smoothly. So when you used the best
    derailleur, with the best shifters, you got lousy shifting. Especially with closely spaced, wide
    ratio cogs.

    I wonder if Frank Berto ever figured out that his dislike of SunTour's Ultra 6 & 7 speed freewheels
    stemed from his using BarCons with Huret and Shimano derailleurs.

    I had a little business back then modifying DuoPars. See
    http://bikesmithdesign.com/fittings/DuoParMods.jpg

    1. Relocating the cable stop and anchor point further from the pivot, to change leverage, making
    them compatable with BarCons. The one shown in the picture is the 7 speed version for those who
    were "pushing the envelope". (To get Shimano to work well with BarCons, you needed a Simplex
    Demultiplicator Relais, or to make a differential pulley.)

    2. Adding a 3rd pulley (several years before the LePree)

    3. Machining off the idler pulley cone to allow installation of Bulseye Pulleys. (The stock pulleys
    had adjustable ball and cone bearings.

    4. Raising the inner cage plate to keep the chain on if you backpedalled. (I sold some of these to
    Lon Haldeman.)

    I was getting $200 for a fully tricked out Ti version. Rather a lot for a derailleur back then, but
    if you needed great wide ratio shifting, with the chains and cogs of the day, it was worth it.

    Back to 1/2 step shifting.....

    Whether it makes sense in a world with 9 speed cassettes depends on where you are. If you live in an
    area where you will spend long periods at the same gradient and wind velocities are relatively
    constant. (ie. Minnesota's Red River Valley) then it makes sense.

    In rolling or urban terrain you would spend all your time shifting.

    BTW Back in the Jurrassic era, I tried 1/3 step shifting, using a 14-34 5 speed and 44-47-50 rings.
    Drove me nuts.
     
  16. Hi, Rob, you say, "I wonder what ol' Frank thinks about this new stuff."

    Yup, I hope he is still around to ponder these things.

    I corresponded with him a couple of times while I was trying to set up my new bike with 'half-step'
    and he always wrote back and treated me like I was his #1 project.

    Have you tried Glucosamine Chondroitin for those tender knees? This stuff seems to help me.

    Lewis.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html

    ....................

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Lewis,
    >
    > Yes I remember it well. The younger, faster riders and the older wiser riders. At the time of
    > those tests I was a younger, not so wise rider. I ran a 14-19 straight block 6 on my Motobecane
    > racing bike. While it is trick for a High Schooler, I think I'm paying the price for it now. While
    > I haven't had any knee surgeries, my knees are a little tender when standing for the last five or
    > six years. Purchasing the Vision 40 for road riding should just about take care of this little
    > problem.
    >
    > It was not until a friend offered his Bridgestone T700 that I played with half-step, and my memory
    > served me well. I set up the T700 with an alpine 14-32 cluster and 24/44/48 chainrings. For those
    > who are really interested in playing with half-step, an old alpine cluster combined with a 4 tooth
    > difference is about the easiest way to set it up. (Typical alpine is 14-17-20-24-28)
    >
    > I'm not sure what use my blathering is in relation to recumbents. With the advent of 9 speed
    > cassettes and dishless wheels, half-step is a wistful memory. It worked at least as well as having
    > all of those duplicate gears does now. But most folks didn't get the shift pattern (witness the
    > other posts questioning the small difference in chainring teeth). I wonder what ol' Frank thinks
    > about this new stuff.
    >
    > Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Half-step
    > and granny.
    >
    >
    > > OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.
    > >
    > > Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling magazine
    > > back, in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )
    > >
    > > In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling magazine
    > > put out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to re-subscribe) that
    > > explained his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for whichever
    > > sprocket/chainring combination you were using.
    > >
    > > Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30
    > > possible gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)
    > >
    > > Lewis.
    > >
    > > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    > >
    > > .............................
    > >
    > >
     
  17. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    Lewis,

    Maybe I will give Glucosamine Chondroitin a try. I suspect I have some degeneration, although I
    really haven't had a problem since I stopped standing up hills. For all the stink about not being
    able to stand on a 'bent, I think it is probably healthier for your knees.

    I missed out on the whole fixed gear fetish that is still going strong in the Twin Cities. I've yet
    to see a express bike that wasn't a fixie in downtown Minneapolis. I wonder how they do it on hills.
    Genetics, perhapps.

    Anyway, thanks for the tip. My wife has been taking GC for a bunch of years, just had not really
    thought of it as degeneration at this point.

    Rob

    "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi, Rob, you say, "I wonder what ol' Frank thinks about this new stuff."
    >
    > Yup, I hope he is still around to ponder these things.
    >
    > I corresponded with him a couple of times while I was trying to set up my new bike with
    > 'half-step' and he always wrote back and treated me like I was his #1 project.
    >
    > Have you tried Glucosamine Chondroitin for those tender knees? This stuff seems to help me.
    >
    > Lewis.
    >
    > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    >
    > ....................
    >
    >
    > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Lewis,
    > >
    > > Yes I remember it well. The younger, faster riders and the older wiser riders. At the time of
    > > those tests I was a younger, not so wise rider.
    I
    > > ran a 14-19 straight block 6 on my Motobecane racing bike. While it is trick for a High
    > > Schooler, I think I'm paying the price for it now.
    While I
    > > haven't had any knee surgeries, my knees are a little tender when
    standing
    > > for the last five or six years. Purchasing the Vision 40 for road
    riding
    > > should just about take care of this little problem.
    > >
    > > It was not until a friend offered his Bridgestone T700 that I played
    with
    > > half-step, and my memory served me well. I set up the T700 with an
    alpine
    > > 14-32 cluster and 24/44/48 chainrings. For those who are really
    interested
    > > in playing with half-step, an old alpine cluster combined with a 4 tooth difference is about the
    > > easiest way to set it up. (Typical alpine is 14-17-20-24-28)
    > >
    > > I'm not sure what use my blathering is in relation to recumbents. With
    the
    > > advent of 9 speed cassettes and dishless wheels, half-step is a wistful memory. It worked at
    > > least as well as having all of those duplicate
    gears
    > > does now. But most folks didn't get the shift pattern (witness the
    other
    > > posts questioning the small difference in chainring teeth). I wonder
    what
    > > ol' Frank thinks about this new stuff.
    > >
    > > Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    > > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Half-step and
    > > granny.
    > >
    > >
    > > > OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.
    > > >
    > > > Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling magazine
    > > > back, in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )
    > > >
    > > > In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling
    > > > magazine put out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to
    > > > re-subscribe) that explained his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for
    > > > whichever sprocket/chainring combination you were using.
    > > >
    > > > Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30
    > > > possible gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)
    > > >
    > > > Lewis.
    > > >
    > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    > > >
    > > > .............................
    > > >
    > > >
    >
     
  18. I LOVE riding a fixed gear bike, Rob, although I don't do it often enough. :-(

    The trick is to set it up so you can ride the local, steepest, hill.

    For me, thats about a 42 - 17 and with this I can cruise along at 18 - 20mph without TOO
    much effort.

    They just feel very 'efficient' to me.

    Lewis.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html

    .............

    "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Lewis,
    >
    > Maybe I will give Glucosamine Chondroitin a try. I suspect I have some degeneration, although I
    > really haven't had a problem since I stopped standing up hills. For all the stink about not being
    > able to stand on a 'bent, I think it is probably healthier for your knees.
    >
    > I missed out on the whole fixed gear fetish that is still going strong in the Twin Cities. I've
    > yet to see a express bike that wasn't a fixie in downtown Minneapolis. I wonder how they do it on
    > hills. Genetics, perhapps.
    >
    > Anyway, thanks for the tip. My wife has been taking GC for a bunch of years, just had not really
    > thought of it as degeneration at this point.
    >
    > Rob
    >
    > "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi, Rob, you say, "I wonder what ol' Frank thinks about this new stuff."
    > >
    > > Yup, I hope he is still around to ponder these things.
    > >
    > > I corresponded with him a couple of times while I was trying to set up my new bike with
    > > 'half-step' and he always wrote back and treated me like I was his #1 project.
    > >
    > > Have you tried Glucosamine Chondroitin for those tender knees? This stuff seems to help me.
    > >
    > > Lewis.
    > >
    > > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    > >
    > > ....................
    > >
    > >
    > > "Rob Kopp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > Lewis,
    > > >
    > > > Yes I remember it well. The younger, faster riders and the older wiser riders. At the time of
    > > > those tests I was a younger, not so wise rider.
    > I
    > > > ran a 14-19 straight block 6 on my Motobecane racing bike. While it is trick for a High
    > > > Schooler, I think I'm paying the price for it now.
    > While I
    > > > haven't had any knee surgeries, my knees are a little tender when
    > standing
    > > > for the last five or six years. Purchasing the Vision 40 for road
    > riding
    > > > should just about take care of this little problem.
    > > >
    > > > It was not until a friend offered his Bridgestone T700 that I played
    > with
    > > > half-step, and my memory served me well. I set up the T700 with an
    > alpine
    > > > 14-32 cluster and 24/44/48 chainrings. For those who are really
    > interested
    > > > in playing with half-step, an old alpine cluster combined with a 4 tooth difference is about
    > > > the easiest way to set it up. (Typical alpine is 14-17-20-24-28)
    > > >
    > > > I'm not sure what use my blathering is in relation to recumbents. With
    > the
    > > > advent of 9 speed cassettes and dishless wheels, half-step is a wistful memory. It worked at
    > > > least as well as having all of those duplicate
    > gears
    > > > does now. But most folks didn't get the shift pattern (witness the
    > other
    > > > posts questioning the small difference in chainring teeth). I wonder
    > what
    > > > ol' Frank thinks about this new stuff.
    > > >
    > > > Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lewis Campbell" <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
    > > > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Half-step and
    > > > granny.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > OK, Rob, it sounds like your memories go back a ways.
    > > > >
    > > > > Whenever I hear 'half step and granny' I think of Frank Berto, a writer for Bicycling
    > > > > magazine back, in the days when it was a GREAT magazine. ( IMHO )
    > > > >
    > > > > In my mind he has always been Mr. Half Step and, back in the early eighties, Bicycling
    > > > > magazine put out a very nice, glossy, wall chart (I think it was an inducement to
    > > > > re-subscribe) that explained his idea and showed all the combinations of gear inches for
    > > > > whichever sprocket/chainring combination you were using.
    > > > >
    > > > > Of course, in those days, bikes were 10 speeds. A chart of today's gearing, with 27 - 30
    > > > > possible gears, would be kind of a headache to follow. :)
    > > > >
    > > > > Lewis.
    > > > >
    > > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~limeylew/index.html
    > > > >
    > > > > .............................
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > >
     
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