Heart Aging



"Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> > Oliver Costich wrote:
> >
> >>On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >>Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Oliver Costich wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >>>>Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a service
> >>>>>>becomes very
inexpensive
> >>>>>>wait times rise as a method to control the load on
> >>>>>>the fixed
resource - number
> >>>>>>of available Dr. appointments. I think you see the
> >>>>>>same thing in the
US with
> >>>>>>veterans hospitals. On the other hand, you don't
> >>>>>>want truly needy
people
> >>>>>>dropping out because they can not pay.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Bill
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>How else would you pay for it?
> >>>
> >>>The same way you pay for other professional services.
> >>
> >>Like with money?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >>How is that possible if money doesn't control medicine?
> >>
> > When the recipient of professional service pays for the
> > service directly
once the
> > service is rendered, money no longer controls the
> > process but rather
catalyzes/enables
> > it.
>
> How silly. Nonsense words - catalyzes/enables. Paying
> directly after the service is rendered catalyzes the
> service. A catalyst causes a change in chemical action
> without entering the reaction. Money will have no part in
> the service being offered? Um, bizbabble. Enables? Permits
> to happen? Helps to happen? Money facilitates? SOunds like
> a controlling element. More biz babble.
>
> As opposed to paying before the service is rendered? See
> how much money you have and determine the level of care
> you're going to get? Who has ever done that?
>
> This demonstrates a dismissively aristocratic vision -
> Marie Antoinette's famous dictum. There's no bread? Let
> them eat cake. Nice, tidy, if illogical, impractical and
> utterly lacking in compassion, solution.
>
> What do poor people do about paying directly? Hell, what
> does a middle class person do who needs serious surgery?
> Bypass surgery a few months ago in New Jersey, a fellow
> told me, cost his insurance company $58,000. How many
> people could afford to "directly" pay that much? It
> doesn't matter if the person has to pay before or after;
> if he can't pay, he won't get it.
>
> Oh, we can just work out the payments... Maybe get a
> second job; the bypass will hold up just fine. Don't worry
> about the stress. Or the ongoing meds.
>
> Or will Chung talk about private charities to pay for it?
> How silly that is. Charities can't keep up with what
> they're trying to do now, what will happen when thousands
> or millions of people will make requests for help? What
> does that single mother do? The guy with a couple kids in
> college? The returning vet who just spent a year or two
> overseas not making much money?
>
> If you can't afford to pay it, that means the medicine is
> effectively unavailable. It means very directly that money
> controls medicine. No money=no medicine.

Well, sometimes. My mother, for example, went into a nursing
home and after all her assets were exhausted she went on
Medicaid which (+ other monthly income) paid for the nursing
home and other medical expenses.

But the point I was trying to make originally was that you
do need a system to control scarce resources - such as Drs.
appointments. In the UK and in the US VA hospitals what has
evolved is waiting time. As the waits get longer people drop
out, find another way, or maybe even die. In the typical US
situation it seems to revolve more around money. People may
avoid Drs. and hospitals because of the cost. There is more
of a capitalist supply and demand undercurrent also implying
people will do without.

I sure don't know what is best. (But there does need to be a
safety valve in both cases for serious situations.) However,
I do think there is way way too much bureaucracy and
paperwork in the system. Reducing that would help everyone.
Also too much special interest protection, e.g. rules
against drug reimportation.

Bill

> Or will there still be insurance companies to do the
> paying? If there is, what's the difference between that
> ill-defined payment approach that Chung espouses and
> what's done now? Insurance companies *now* pay for the
> services afterward. Nothing new.
>
> But a careful read of what Chung proposes says it all:
> "the recipient of professional service pays for the
> service directly." You want medical attention, you pay for
> it. And somehow, that means money doesn't control
> medicine...
>
> Or do you break the doctor the news after the service is
> rendered that you can't pay for it? Then what, he takes
> your house?
>
> Will people in the medbiz lower their prices for the new
> system? Rhetorical question.
>
> Among the top causes of personal bankruptcy in the United
> States is overwhelming medical bills.
> <http://tinyurl.com/3cjzf> Has been for a while.
> Particularly in recessions like we're experiencing now.
>
> Bob
 
>Well, sometimes. My mother, for example, went into a
>nursing home and after all her assets were exhausted she
>went on Medicaid which (+ other monthly income) paid for
>the nursing home and other medical expenses.

In the UK, if a person has savings over £16,000 they must
pay in full for nursing home care, typically £350-400 per
week.. If they own a house it would have to be sold to
provide funds for the care unless a spouse or other member
of the family was living in it.
>
>But the point I was trying to make originally was that you
>do need a system to control scarce resources - such as Drs.
>appointments. In the UK and in the US VA hospitals what has
>evolved is waiting time. As the waits get longer people
>drop out, find another way, or maybe even die. In the
>typical US situation it seems to revolve more around money.
>People may avoid Drs. and hospitals because of the cost.
>There is more of a capitalist supply and demand
>undercurrent also implying people will do without.

People do die in the UK waiting for heart surgery. It is a
national scandal. The best way to avoid waits in the NHS
system is to pay or to be vociferous and many older people
were brought up in a climate of "not questioning the
doctor". My friends all assumed I was paying for my heart
surgery because it was being done in London when I live in
Manchester but it came about only because I wrote to the
surgeon concerned and he agreed to take me on. A dear friend
died two weeks ago. He had a serious heart valve problem and
we had many discussions as I wanted him to ask his
cardiologist if surgery was a possibility for him. He told
me he couldn't do that. This man had been diagnosed over ten
years ago and ...just kept taking the medicine. His
cardiologist was the same one who told me when he gave me my
diagnosis that "its not desperate, you can go home". The
surgeon told me I would have had 3-5 years left. Sorry for
the rant but money certainly makes a difference here. I
could have had surgery immediately after diagnosis but the
cost would have been £15 - 20,000.

>
>I sure don't know what is best. (But there does need to be
>a safety valve in both cases for serious situations.)
>However, I do think there is way way too much bureaucracy
>and paperwork in the system.

Same here.

Another problem in the UK is "medical tourism". People
arrive from all over the place and just present themselves
at hospital. Doctors here do not like to say no to seriously
ill people. The government is proposing to start yet another
new system whereby the patient has to prove they are
resident here. GPs are saying that they do not want to
police the system for the government.

The NHS is said to be the envy of the world but there are
many problems, like that mentioned above, that causes many
of the indigenous population to have to wait longer for
treatment.

Diana
 
Hi,
> >His hair started leaving two days ago (started with his
> >moustache) and it's looking distinctly motheaten now.
> >Kind of like one of those stuffed animals that a child
> >has loved part of the fuzz off. <G>
>
> Your sense of humor in tough times is on of your best
> traits, Carmen. All in all, this sounds yucky but really
> is pretty decent considering. Correct?

Sense of humor keeps me from going postal and taking an ice
cream man hostage or something. Since I'm not the sort who
cries easily I have to do something. Laughing works. :)

You're correct. All in all, Howard is doing pretty well.
"Chemo-The Saga Continues" starts Wednesday. He's managed
to put back one of the pounds he lost (sucking back
milkshakes is hard work ;-) ). The hematocrit is probably
lower than it was last week - he's almost as pale as I am
now. (For him that's not natural though.) The great thing
is, his energy level is still holding up pretty well
despite everything. :)

> >> Had a bit if hospital time myself.
> >
> >Oh no. What happened? Exogenous or endogenous?
>
> Neither.
>
> Anal.
>
> lol
>
> My butt was where it shouldn't have been (so was I for
> that matter) and bad eating habits, hereditary...well, by
> the time they decided to do their thing (and I got enough
> courage and time myself) when they wheeled me down for a
> spinal block, the Doc said, Nope, no telling what we are
> going to find so let's lay him out." That was thrilling to
> hear. You know, us men, we are such great patients.

I've read the post in the other group now about this as
well. I do hope your wife read you the riot act about
waiting so long. Stuff like that can get nasty fast, and
pain exists for a reason. Lecture over.

> They didn't have copies of my overseas colonoscopy and
> other and assorted wrong end probes and he couldn't get up
> in there (I was shall we say "slammed shut), cancer in the
> immediate family, (Mother, very young, terminal, lower
> intestine)...I remember thinking once if I would rather
> lose my butt or a hand. lol

Cancer doesn't give a **** who it takes. I'm sorry it got
your Mom. It's more than a little scary how many people we
know are facing or have faced it. One of Howard's co-workers
has a wife who is probably terminal. It's her second bout
(and type) of cancer, and they (she and her husband) are our
age. One of the sergeant majors in Divarty lost a part of
his ear recently to melanoma too.

> Anyway, I had my first big boy **** without crying so it
> looks good. Lost about 15 pounds in two weeks. Went on the
> 1Ounce Diet. I don't think Andrew would have approved.

<Laughing> I doubt it! I hope you recover quickly - and that
all the news from the procedure was good. Will this take
care of all the issues, or is it a stop gap measure (even if
for a long time period)?

> Glad to hear from you. Good that Sarge is starting to get
> his Hoo-Ah back.

I'm sorry to hear you went through a stretch of suck, but
glad to hear you're around to tell the tale. Take care of
yourself, Carmen
 
Oliver Costich wrote:
>
> On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
> >> >> >> B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Bill wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr.
> >> >> >> >> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably stressful
> >> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
> >> >> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to the
> >> >> >> >> > > >formation of blood clots when warfarin is
> >> >> >> >> > > >held. And, you have had a number of
> >> >> >> >> > > >surgical procedures where the warfarin
> >> >> >> >> > > >was held.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was
> >> >> >> >> > > admitted to hospital early ( about five
> >> >> >> >> > > days) so that I could be switched to
> >> >> >> >> > > Heparin.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS
> >> >> >> >> > :)
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good
> >> >> >> >> > > >valve. Have they given you an explanation
> >> >> >> >> > > >for why it is leaking more than the usual
> >> >> >> >> > > >small amount?
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
> >> >> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one
> >> >> >> >> > > of the best in Europe. I do not know that
> >> >> >> >> > > it is leaking more than a small amount,
> >> >> >> >> > > but the consultant I saw last (in
> >> >> >> >> > > Manchester) commented on it as soon as he
> >> >> >> >> > > listened to my heart. He wanted an echo to
> >> >> >> >> > > be done that day. Maybe it is minor but
> >> >> >> >> > > when I asked about that he did not
> >> >> >> >> > > respond. My GP has received a letter about
> >> >> >> >> > > the results and it contains a comment
> >> >> >> >> > > about having a TOE done. . I see the
> >> >> >> >> > > consultant again on 30th June. These long
> >> >> >> >> > > waiting times are common in our UK NHS.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > Diana
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long
> >> >> >> >> > waits.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a
> >> >> >> >> service becomes very inexpensive wait times
> >> >> >> >> rise as a method to control the load on the
> >> >> >> >> fixed resource - number of available Dr.
> >> >> >> >> appointments. I think you see the same thing
> >> >> >> >> in the US with veterans hospitals. On the
> >> >> >> >> other hand, you don't want truly needy people
> >> >> >> >> dropping out because they can not pay.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Bill
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The same way you pay for other professional
> >> >> >services.
> >> >>
> >> >> Like with money?
> >> >
> >> >Yes.
> >> >
> >> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control
> >> >> medicine?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >When the recipient of professional service pays for
> >> >the service directly once the service is rendered,
> >> >money no longer controls the process but rather
> >> >catalyzes/enables
> >> >it.
> >> >
> >>
> >> With today's medical costs, no individual can take the
> >> risk of having to pay his own health care costs in
> >> full.
> >
> >Paying one's health care costs directly in full entails
> >no risk.
>
> Only to the pocketbook if one can even afford the needed
> care. Sans insurance, a dobutamine stress test costs over
> $3000. The whole idea of insurance is to spread the
> financial risk over a larger group.

Chronic illness is no longer risk but definite cost.

> Do you have auto and home insurance?

Yes. However, the auto insurance does not pay for diagnostic
testing, maintenance supplies, nor maintenance repairs.

> >Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a Health
> >Savings Account (HSA) make this not only possible but
> >practical.
>
> Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to spend
> from it.

Great also for catastrophic medical events too.

> No good otherwise.

It is as good as any other form of distributed risk.

> There is no one-size-fits-all method here.

It remains a good way to keep money from controlling
medicine.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
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>You're correct. All in all, Howard is doing pretty well. "Chemo-The
>Saga Continues" starts Wednesday. He's managed to put back one of the
>pounds he lost (sucking back milkshakes is hard work ;-) ). The
>hematocrit is probably lower than it was last week - he's almost as
>pale as I am now. (For him that's not natural though.) The great
>thing is, his energy level is still holding up pretty well despite
>everything. :)

Good news, good news indeed. upward and onward it appears.

>> My butt was where it shouldn't have been (so was I for
>> that matter) and bad eating habits, hereditary...well, by
>> the time they decided to do their thing (and I got enough
>> courage and time myself) when they wheeled me down for a
>> spinal block, the Doc said, Nope, no telling what we are
>> going to find so let's lay him out." That was thrilling
>> to hear. You know, us men, we are such great patients.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:14 GMT, "Carmen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've read the post in the other group now about this as
>well. I do hope your wife read you the riot act about
>waiting so long.

Yeah, let's say that I never knew how long and vitriolic
that act can be.

Some of the waiting was not of my accord. Getting on
Tija/Cooke is easy; getting off not so easy.

> Stuff like that can get nasty fast, and pain exists for a
> reason.

Sure can, sure does.

> Lecture
> over.

Lecturer approved. Thank you, Mommie!

>> They didn't have copies of my overseas colonoscopy and
>> other and assorted wrong end probes and he couldn't get
>> up in there (I was shall we say "slammed shut), cancer in
>> the immediate family, (Mother, very young, terminal,
>> lower intestine)...I remember thinking once if I would
>> rather lose my butt or a hand. lol

On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:29:14 GMT, "Carmen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Cancer doesn't give a **** who it takes. I'm sorry it got
>your Mom. It's more than a little scary how many people we
>know are facing or have faced it. One of Howard's co-
>workers has a wife who is probably terminal. It's her
>second bout (and type) of cancer, and they (she and her
>husband) are our age. One of the sergeant majors in Divarty
>lost a part of his ear recently to melanoma too.

Insipid, satanic stuff, no doubt.

>> Anyway, I had my first big boy **** without crying so it
>> looks good. Lost about 15 pounds in two weeks. Went on
>> the 1Ounce Diet. I don't think Andrew would have
>> approved.
>
><Laughing> I doubt it! I hope you recover quickly - and
>that all the news from the procedure was good. Will this
>take care of all the issues, or is it a stop gap measure
>(even if for a long time period)?

Time will tell.

>> Glad to hear from you. Good that Sarge is starting to get
>> his Hoo-Ah back.
>
>I'm sorry to hear you went through a stretch of suck, but
>glad to hear you're around to tell the tale. Take care of
>yourself, Carmen

Thanks and you as well. I Google and keep up with all
your posts even when I cannot respond. I feel like a Big
Brother sometimes but it helps keep me connected to the
"real world". Or am I in the real world? I don't know. It
is all so bizarre, Carmen, so very bizarre. Here are a
few examples:

*A friend walked into an "empty" shed, saw Army folks
counting cash by the cart load. Disappeared for six months.

*Several dozens, hand selected POWs loaded into a ship, sail
off, never came back. Sailed from southernmost
point...south.

*I am in Anniston AL walking along, get a cell call, "meet
me at the <blank> motel lobby." Go there, and watch as four
or five people work furiously in a conference room while I
meet my caller whose voice I recognize as 902nd. Wants me to
"get to know" a few Georgians. I meet these folks later in
the same conference room. Get invited to NYC. Go there. Have
a couple of days, unreal Central park condo, two floors.
Talk business. Something not right. Turn them loose, make
report. Nothing specific, just bad vibes. I have no idea
what any of this is about. Make a return visit; watch the
work of a remote viewer in person, amazing stuff. "Can see
documents miles away". Figure that this is about MK Ultra
type stuff.

Next month...see below.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/

In this group is the group I visited.

Guess this is how you afford a 10,000 sf ft Manhattan condo.

lol

Never know; what appears to be trivial, isn't. What appears
to be important often is not.

Carmen, you would get a real kick out of some of the
technologies developed and in use. A trip thru DARPA is like
a trip thru Wonderland. All that stuff HAS to find a
commercial home via law.

And it has. The manipulation of the human psyche is an
art/science so well developed to be nearly unfathomable.
This has crept over into the commercial world and if anyone
thinks that there is NOT a determined and focused effort,
using all the subtleties and tricks to condition us to
disregard our overconsumption, to make it appear not only
normal but necessary........see how well it is working?
Proof in the pudding (cups).

Oh well. Being ill has its benefits. I may be "4F" and our
contracts are up this month.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
Mosaic M_uns wrote:

> <snip> Thanks and you as well. I Google and keep up with
> all your posts even when I cannot respond. I feel like a
> Big Brother sometimes but it helps keep me connected to
> the "real world". Or am I in the real world? I don't know.
> It is all so bizarre, Carmen, so very bizarre. Here are a
> few examples:
>
> *A friend walked into an "empty" shed, saw Army
> folks counting cash by the cart load. Disappeared
> for six months.
>

Uh-oh.

>
> *Several dozens, hand selected POWs loaded into a ship,
> sail off, never came back. Sailed from southernmost
> point...south.
>

Uh-oh.

>
> *I am in Anniston AL walking along, get a cell call, "meet
> me at the <blank> motel lobby." Go there, and watch as
> four or five people work furiously in a conference room
> while I meet my caller whose voice I recognize as 902nd.
> Wants me to "get to know" a few Georgians. I meet these
> folks later in the same conference room. Get invited to
> NYC. Go there. Have a couple of days, unreal Central park
> condo, two floors. Talk business. Something not right.
> Turn them loose, make report. Nothing specific, just bad
> vibes. I have no idea what any of this is about. Make a
> return visit; watch the work of a remote viewer in person,
> amazing stuff. "Can see documents miles away". Figure that
> this is about MK Ultra type stuff.
>
> Next month...see below.
>
> http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/
>

Link did not work for me.

>
> In this group is the group I visited.
>
> Guess this is how you afford a 10,000 sf ft
> Manhattan condo.
>
> lol
>

One can not serve two masters.

>
> Never know; what appears to be trivial, isn't. What
> appears to be important often is not.
>
> Carmen, you would get a real kick out of some of the
> technologies developed and in use. A trip thru DARPA is
> like a trip thru Wonderland. All that stuff HAS to find a
> commercial home via law.
>
> And it has. The manipulation of the human psyche is an
> art/science so well developed to be nearly unfathomable.
> This has crept over into the commercial world and if
> anyone thinks that there is NOT a determined and focused
> effort, using all the subtleties and tricks to condition
> us to disregard our overconsumption, to make it appear not
> only normal but necessary........see how well it is
> working? Proof in the pudding (cups).
>

I call it multi-level brainwashing (MLB instead of MLM).

>
> Oh well. Being ill has its benefits. I may be "4F" and our
> contracts are up this month.
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html Lift well,
> Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

You remain in my prayers to God in Christ's name.

Only He can keep us from harm in this world.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

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Mosaic M_uns wrote:

> On Fri, 28 May 2004 17:36:47 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/
> >>
> >
> >Link did not work for me.
>
> http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp18411.htm

Uh-oh.

Hope Christ is keeping your feet clean.

You remain in my prayers, brother.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

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Is this spam?
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On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:23:07 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Oliver Costich wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
>> >> >> >> B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Bill wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400, "Dr.
>> >> >> >> >> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> >stressful
>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
>> >> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
>> >> >> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to the
>> >> >> >> >> > > >formation of blood clots when warfarin
>> >> >> >> >> > > >is held. And, you have had a number of
>> >> >> >> >> > > >surgical procedures where the warfarin
>> >> >> >> >> > > >was held.
>> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was
>> >> >> >> >> > > admitted to hospital early ( about five
>> >> >> >> >> > > days) so that I could be switched to
>> >> >> >> >> > > Heparin.
>> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK NHS
>> >> >> >> >> > :)
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good
>> >> >> >> >> > > >valve. Have they given you an
>> >> >> >> >> > > >explanation for why it is leaking more
>> >> >> >> >> > > >than the usual small amount?
>> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
>> >> >> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital, one
>> >> >> >> >> > > of the best in Europe. I do not know that
>> >> >> >> >> > > it is leaking more than a small amount,
>> >> >> >> >> > > but the consultant I saw last (in
>> >> >> >> >> > > Manchester) commented on it as soon as he
>> >> >> >> >> > > listened to my heart. He wanted an echo
>> >> >> >> >> > > to be done that day. Maybe it is minor
>> >> >> >> >> > > but when I asked about that he did not
>> >> >> >> >> > > respond. My GP has received a letter
>> >> >> >> >> > > about the results and it contains a
>> >> >> >> >> > > comment about having a TOE done. . I see
>> >> >> >> >> > > the consultant again on 30th June. These
>> >> >> >> >> > > long waiting times are common in our UK
>> >> >> >> >> > > NHS.
>> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> > > Diana
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the long
>> >> >> >> >> > waits.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a
>> >> >> >> >> service becomes very inexpensive wait times
>> >> >> >> >> rise as a method to control the load on the
>> >> >> >> >> fixed resource - number of available Dr.
>> >> >> >> >> appointments. I think you see the same thing
>> >> >> >> >> in the US with veterans hospitals. On the
>> >> >> >> >> other hand, you don't want truly needy people
>> >> >> >> >> dropping out because they can not pay.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Bill
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >The same way you pay for other professional
>> >> >> >services.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Like with money?
>> >> >
>> >> >Yes.
>> >> >
>> >> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control
>> >> >> medicine?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >When the recipient of professional service pays for
>> >> >the service directly once the service is rendered,
>> >> >money no longer controls the process but rather
>> >> >catalyzes/enables
>> >> >it.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> With today's medical costs, no individual can take the
>> >> risk of having to pay his own health care costs in
>> >> full.
>> >
>> >Paying one's health care costs directly in full entails
>> >no risk.
>>
>> Only to the pocketbook if one can even afford the needed
>> care. Sans insurance, a dobutamine stress test costs over
>> $3000. The whole idea of insurance is to spread the
>> financial risk over a larger group.
>
>Chronic illness is no longer risk but definite cost.

Then there would be no advantage to any kind of insurance.
The medical risk is not for "whether" but "for how much".
>
>> Do you have auto and home insurance?
>
>Yes. However, the auto insurance does not pay for
>diagnostic testing, maintenance supplies, nor
>maintenance repairs.

A diagnostic test for a car rarely costs as much as $3,000.
>
>
>> >Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a
>> >Health Savings Account (HSA) make this not only possible
>> >but practical.
>>
>> Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to
>> spend from it.
>
>Great also for catastrophic medical events too.

If you have enough in it to pay the cost which can be tens
of thousands.

>
>> No good otherwise.
>
>It is as good as any other form of distributed risk.

As I understand it, it is not distributed risk but
personal saving.
>
>> There is no one-size-fits-all method here.
>
>It remains a good way to keep money from controlling
>medicine.

For those that can afford to do it and put away sizeable
amounts for health care. Most people cannot because their
income level doesn't really permit it.

It is a good idea for those who can make effective use of
it.
>
>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
Oliver Costich wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:23:07 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
> >> >> >> B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr.
> >> >> >> >> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Bill wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400,
> >> >> >> >> >> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> >> >> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >stressful
> >> >> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the mitral
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >position is especially vulnerable to
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >the formation of blood clots when
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >warfarin is held. And, you have had a
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >number of surgical procedures where
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >the warfarin was held.
> >> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was
> >> >> >> >> >> > > admitted to hospital early ( about five
> >> >> >> >> >> > > days) so that I could be switched to
> >> >> >> >> >> > > Heparin.
> >> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK
> >> >> >> >> >> > NHS :)
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >valve. Have they given you an
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >explanation for why it is leaking more
> >> >> >> >> >> > > >than the usual small amount?
> >> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it was
> >> >> >> >> >> > > implanted in a London heart hospital,
> >> >> >> >> >> > > one of the best in Europe. I do not
> >> >> >> >> >> > > know that it is leaking more than a
> >> >> >> >> >> > > small amount, but the consultant I saw
> >> >> >> >> >> > > last (in Manchester) commented on it as
> >> >> >> >> >> > > soon as he listened to my heart. He
> >> >> >> >> >> > > wanted an echo to be done that day.
> >> >> >> >> >> > > Maybe it is minor but when I asked
> >> >> >> >> >> > > about that he did not respond. My GP
> >> >> >> >> >> > > has received a letter about the results
> >> >> >> >> >> > > and it contains a comment about having
> >> >> >> >> >> > > a TOE done. . I see the consultant
> >> >> >> >> >> > > again on 30th June. These long waiting
> >> >> >> >> >> > > times are common in our UK NHS.
> >> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >> > > Diana
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the
> >> >> >> >> >> > long waits.
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a
> >> >> >> >> >> service becomes very inexpensive wait times
> >> >> >> >> >> rise as a method to control the load on the
> >> >> >> >> >> fixed resource - number of available Dr.
> >> >> >> >> >> appointments. I think you see the same
> >> >> >> >> >> thing in the US with veterans hospitals. On
> >> >> >> >> >> the other hand, you don't want truly needy
> >> >> >> >> >> people dropping out because they can not
> >> >> >> >> >> pay.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Bill
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >The same way you pay for other professional
> >> >> >> >services.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Like with money?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Yes.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control
> >> >> >> medicine?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >When the recipient of professional service pays for
> >> >> >the service directly once the service is rendered,
> >> >> >money no longer controls the process but rather
> >> >> >catalyzes/enables
> >> >> >it.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> With today's medical costs, no individual can take
> >> >> the risk of having to pay his own health care costs
> >> >> in full.
> >> >
> >> >Paying one's health care costs directly in full
> >> >entails no risk.
> >>
> >> Only to the pocketbook if one can even afford the
> >> needed care. Sans insurance, a dobutamine stress test
> >> costs over $3000. The whole idea of insurance is to
> >> spread the financial risk over a larger group.
> >
> >Chronic illness is no longer risk but definite cost.
>
> Then there would be no advantage to any kind of insurance.
> The medical risk is not for "whether" but "for how much".

What I wrote speaks nothing of the advantages of having
any kind of insurance but rather the concept that in
chronic illness there is no longer distributed risk but
projected costs.

> >> Do you have auto and home insurance?
> >
> >Yes. However, the auto insurance does not pay for
> >diagnostic testing, maintenance supplies, nor maintenance
> >repairs.
>
> A diagnostic test for a car rarely costs as much as
> $3,000.

Depends on the car and the underlying problem.

> >
> >> >Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a
> >> >Health Savings Account (HSA) make this not only
> >> >possible but practical.
> >>
> >> Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to
> >> spend from it.
> >
> >Great also for catastrophic medical events too.
>
> If you have enough in it to pay the cost which can be tens
> of thousands.

MSAs and HSAs are required to be linked to excellent
indemnity coverage that kicks in after meeting the
deductible of about $5000-6000.

The most that yearly out-of-pocket will be is the
deductible.

> >
> >> No good otherwise.
> >
> >It is as good as any other form of distributed risk.
>
> As I understand it, it is not distributed risk but
> personal saving.

You are forgetting the high-deductible indemnity coverage.

> >
> >> There is no one-size-fits-all method here.
> >
> >It remains a good way to keep money from controlling
> >medicine.
>
> For those that can afford to do it and put away sizeable
> amounts for health care. Most people cannot because their
> income level doesn't really permit it.

You'd be surprised.

> It is a good idea for those who can make effective
> use of it.

Many people can if they start before acquiring a
chronic illness.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
 
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:52:50 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Oliver Costich wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 24 May 2004 05:23:07 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
>> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:05:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B.
>> >> >> Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:46:04 -0400, "Dr. Andrew
>> >> >> >> B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Oliver Costich wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:36:55 -0400, "Dr.
>> >> >> >> >> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >Bill wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> >> >> >> > [email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > On Sun, 16 May 2004 17:43:57 -0400,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >[email protected] wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >The management of your coumadin
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >anticoagulation was probably
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >stressful
>> >> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >your physicians.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >> Do you think so?
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >A prosthetic metal valve in the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >mitral position is especially
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >vulnerable to the formation of blood
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >clots when warfarin is held. And, you
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >have had a number of surgical
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >procedures where the warfarin was
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >held.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > Before each surgical procedure I was
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > admitted to hospital early ( about
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > five days) so that I could be switched
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > to Heparin.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > That probably placed a strain on the UK
>> >> >> >> >> >> > NHS :)
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >Yours (St. Jude's) should be a good
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >valve. Have they given you an
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >explanation for why it is leaking
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >more than the usual small amount?
>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > I am sure it is a good valve and it
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > was implanted in a London heart
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > hospital, one of the best in Europe. I
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > do not know that it is leaking more
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > than a small amount, but the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > consultant I saw last (in Manchester)
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > commented on it as soon as he listened
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > to my heart. He wanted an echo to be
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > done that day. Maybe it is minor but
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > when I asked about that he did not
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > respond. My GP has received a letter
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > about the results and it contains a
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > comment about having a TOE done. . I
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > see the consultant again on 30th June.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > These long waiting times are common in
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > our UK NHS.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > > Diana
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Sorry that you have to put up with the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > long waits.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> It's in an interesting phenomenon. When a
>> >> >> >> >> >> service becomes very inexpensive wait
>> >> >> >> >> >> times rise as a method to control the load
>> >> >> >> >> >> on the fixed resource - number of
>> >> >> >> >> >> available Dr. appointments. I think you
>> >> >> >> >> >> see the same thing in the US with veterans
>> >> >> >> >> >> hospitals. On the other hand, you don't
>> >> >> >> >> >> want truly needy people dropping out
>> >> >> >> >> >> because they can not pay.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Bill
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >It is sad when money controls medicine.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> How else would you pay for it?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >The same way you pay for other professional
>> >> >> >> >services.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Like with money?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Yes.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> How is that possible if money doesn't control
>> >> >> >> medicine?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >When the recipient of professional service pays
>> >> >> >for the service directly once the service is
>> >> >> >rendered, money no longer controls the process but
>> >> >> >rather catalyzes/enables
>> >> >> >it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With today's medical costs, no individual can take
>> >> >> the risk of having to pay his own health care costs
>> >> >> in full.
>> >> >
>> >> >Paying one's health care costs directly in full
>> >> >entails no risk.
>> >>
>> >> Only to the pocketbook if one can even afford the
>> >> needed care. Sans insurance, a dobutamine stress test
>> >> costs over $3000. The whole idea of insurance is to
>> >> spread the financial risk over a larger group.
>> >
>> >Chronic illness is no longer risk but definite cost.
>>
>> Then there would be no advantage to any kind of
>> insurance. The medical risk is not for "whether" but "for
>> how much".
>
>What I wrote speaks nothing of the advantages of having
>any kind of insurance but rather the concept that in
>chronic illness there is no longer distributed risk but
>projected costs.
>

It's still a matter of distributing the costs since not
everyone has the same cost profile.

>> >> Do you have auto and home insurance?
>> >
>> >Yes. However, the auto insurance does not pay for
>> >diagnostic testing, maintenance supplies, nor
>> >maintenance repairs.
>>
>> A diagnostic test for a car rarely costs as much as
>> $3,000.
>
>Depends on the car and the underlying problem.

It's still rare compared to medical diagnostics in the same
price range.

>
>> >
>> >> >Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a
>> >> >Health Savings Account (HSA) make this not only
>> >> >possible but practical.
>> >>
>> >> Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to
>> >> spend from it.
>> >
>> >Great also for catastrophic medical events too.
>>
>> If you have enough in it to pay the cost which can be
>> tens of thousands.
>
>MSAs and HSAs are required to be linked to excellent
>indemnity coverage that kicks in after meeting the
>deductible of about $5000-6000.

I'm already paying almost $1500 a month for a $5000
deductible, 80/20 policy. That's the best I can find with my
afib. In today's medical market, covering the first $5000 is
the easy part.

>
>The most that yearly out-of-pocket will be is the
>deductible.
>
>
>> >
>> >> No good otherwise.
>> >
>> >It is as good as any other form of distributed risk.
>>
>> As I understand it, it is not distributed risk but
>> personal saving.
>
>You are forgetting the high-deductible indemnity coverage.
>
>> >
>> >> There is no one-size-fits-all method here.
>> >
>> >It remains a good way to keep money from controlling
>> >medicine.

I don't see how it will do that. Any significant event will
go over the $5000 mark (especially if you aren't getting the
negotiated discount from a network), and then you're back at
the mercy of insurance companies.

>>
>> For those that can afford to do it and put away sizeable
>> amounts for health care. Most people cannot because their
>> income level doesn't really permit it.
>
>You'd be surprised.
>
>> It is a good idea for those who can make effective
>> use of it.
>
>Many people can if they start before acquiring a
>chronic illness.
>
>
>
>Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
>Andrew
 
Oliver Costich wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:52:50 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,
> MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote: <snip>
> >What I wrote speaks nothing of the advantages of having
> >any kind of insurance but rather the concept that in
> >chronic illness there is no longer distributed risk but
> >projected costs.
> >
>
> It's still a matter of distributing the costs since not
> everyone has the same cost profile.
>

costs<>risks

>
> >> >> Do you have auto and home insurance?
> >> >
> >> >Yes. However, the auto insurance does not pay for
> >> >diagnostic testing, maintenance supplies, nor
> >> >maintenance repairs.
> >>
> >> A diagnostic test for a car rarely costs as much as
> >> $3,000.
> >
> >Depends on the car and the underlying problem.
>
> It's still rare compared to medical diagnostics in the
> same price range.
>

Depends on your socioeconomic status.

>
> >
> >> >
> >> >> >Having either a Medical Savings Account (MSA) or a
> >> >> >Health Savings Account (HSA) make this not only
> >> >> >possible but practical.
> >> >>
> >> >> Great if you are young and healthy and don't need to
> >> >> spend from it.
> >> >
> >> >Great also for catastrophic medical events too.
> >>
> >> If you have enough in it to pay the cost which can be
> >> tens of thousands.
> >
> >MSAs and HSAs are required to be linked to excellent
> >indemnity coverage that kicks in after meeting the
> >deductible of about $5000-6000.
>
> I'm already paying almost $1500 a month for a $5000
> deductible, 80/20 policy. That's the best I can find with
> my afib. In today's medical market, covering the first
> $5000 is the easy part.
>

I would guess that finding a policy that would have no
deductible (thereby covering the first $5000) for you would
not be easy.

> <snip>
> >> >It remains a good way to keep money from controlling
> >> >medicine.
>
> I don't see how it will do that. Any significant event
> will go over the $5000 mark (especially if you aren't
> getting the negotiated discount from a network), and then
> you're back at the mercy of insurance companies.

Once you are event-free for several years, meeting the
deductible will not be a problem for several years.

You may certainly opt for high-deductible PPO type coverage
for your MSA/HSA.

Personally, I prefer the choice availed by idemnity coverage
so that I do not need to be concerned about whether a doctor
or hospital is in-network. Ime, the best doctors often are
not "in network" and receiving medical care from the best
doctors usually means you are likely to have fewer future
hospitalizations.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

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