Heeding Heart rate in power-based training.

[tomUK]

As of recent I have been doig the majority of my workouts at 210Watts.

On Tuedays, Wednesdays and Thursdays I do 1 hour. On Saturdays I do 2 hours and Sunday's I do 1.5 hours. All at the same intensity - 210W. My max output is 410W.

I have noticed over the last 3-4 weeks that although I have kept my wattage figure the same, on average my heart rate has increased.

Surely heart rate is better in some case as it stops you going out so hard? Rather than capping my power at 210W would it not be better to cap my heart rate at 60%max?

This would ensure I didn't work to hard and therefore give me a certain amount of rest on the bike thereby long-term making me stronger.

Any thoughts?

 

[acoggan]

Let me get this straight: you're training (really, just maintaining - maybe) at a constant power, and your HR is increasing over time, which suggests that you're losing fitness. Yet, you want to cap your training intensity based on HR, and allow yourself to detrain even more rapidly?

 

[tomUK]

I guess that is your way of saying 'step on it and raise the intensity, else do some intervals'?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Originally posted by tomUK
I guess that is your way of saying 'step on it and raise the intensity, else do some intervals'?

which is what i said to you a while back too (at least i think it was you)!

either way, you're not really training, you're just riding the bike

ric

 

[tomUK]

Maybe you did say this to me earlier Ric. From that advise I ramped my endurance wattage up from 190 to 210 and seem to be loosing fitness.

Maybe I termed my question wrong. As my heart rate average seems to be increase (rather than decreasing, as I had hoped) I have started to wonder if I am over-doing it?

My morning RHR has recently been 43-47. I am used to seeing figures of 32-35.

Bearing in mind I have recently just over-come two cases of the flu virus, what do you suggest?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Originally posted by tomUK
Maybe you did say this to me earlier Ric. From that advise I ramped my endurance wattage up from 190 to 210 and seem to be loosing fitness.

Maybe I termed my question wrong. As my heart rate average seems to be increase (rather than decreasing, as I had hoped) I have started to wonder if I am over-doing it?

My morning RHR has recently been 43-47. I am used to seeing figures of 32-35.

Bearing in mind I have recently just over-come two cases of the flu virus, what do you suggest?

ignoring the flu momentarily, as i recall that the initial advice (when you were doing 190 W) must've been way before you had the flu...

You're not overdoing it, you're not actually training. in other words, the riding (not training) that you're doing (210 W) is too easy for the level that you are, based on a MAP 410 W.

i'd be prescribing rides of up to 3hrs at about 200 to 270 W, with harder on the hills for a MAP of 410 W.

The reason your HR is increasing is because your fitness is decreasing.

additionally, assuming that you'll be racing this year, i'd be prescribing blocks of TT type work of 15 to 30 mins duration with 1 to 4 repeats once or twice a weekat 270 to 310 W. I'd also have you doing other work too.

Now, bearing in mind your recent flu, you need to leave a good 14 days or so post cessation of illness to make sure you don't have a relapse. if you've only just finished this 14-day period, i'd keep intensity where it is an principally work on increasing the duration of your rides.

ric

 

[tomUK]

Ric -

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate your time. It's funny - as when I read your replies to me - I feel like a school lad being told off by his head master!!!

When you say 3 hour rides of 200W-270W I assume you mean once every week?! Normally after my 2 hour ride on saturday at 210W (and I literally pedal the whole time as these workout are done indoors on my tacx trainer that increases the resistance if I start spinning slower) I feel dead. My legs feel like they are going to give way! I am eating as you prescribe about 240 cals/hour once into the first hour. Hence basically I am puting down 240cals for a 2 hour ride?

Is it possible I am not eating enough before? I usually put down about 300 cals an hour or 2 before. I just feel like I am missing something and I'm not quite sure what.

p.s. I am drinking about 3-4 600ml bottles of water over the ride.

Ed (wondering what to do next!)

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Originally posted by tomUK
Ric -

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate your time. It's funny - as when I read your replies to me - I feel like a school lad being told off by his head master!!!

When you say 3 hour rides of 200W-270W I assume you mean once every week?! Normally after my 2 hour ride on saturday at 210W (and I literally pedal the whole time as these workout are done indoors on my tacx trainer that increases the resistance if I start spinning slower) I feel dead. My legs feel like they are going to give way! I am eating as you prescribe about 240 cals/hour once into the first hour. Hence basically I am puting down 240cals for a 2 hour ride?

i can't recall... what are you measuring power with?

if 210 W is 'killing you', i think you need to seriously consider that your MAP has changed or there's a problem with whatever you're measuring power at.

3hrs of of 200 to 270 W is *up to* and it's probable taht you can reduce duration by ~ 1/3 for riding indoors over a prescribed outdoor (same intensity) session.

is there some reason why you (only) ride indoors?

Is it possible I am not eating enough before? I usually put down about 300 cals an hour or 2 before. I just feel like I am missing something and I'm not quite sure what.

p.s. I am drinking about 3-4 600ml bottles of water over the ride.

Ed (wondering what to do next!)

what about the rest of the day...?

ric

 

[tomUK]

Currently I am measuring power with my Tacx Flow trainer. From the post in here it appears to be reasonably accurate. This is one of the reasons I ride indoors most of the time - as I can't measure power outside at present. (My PT Pro is due in 2 weeks time - yippeeeeee!). Also, the weather has been foul - it doesn't bother me riding in rain or cold but it does bother me cleaning and lubing the bike up afterwards!

Why is it that an indoor ride is worth 1/3 more than an outdoor ride?

Foodwise - the rest of the day. I normally get in the 150grams of carb and a little protein within the first 30 mins. After that anything goes. I try to make sure I get my 5 veggies in everyday. that's about it.

 

[velomanct]

it sounds like you need to take a recovery week. you should train like usual for 3 weeks, and by the end of the 3rd week you should have a slightly lower fitness level because you are overloaded and need to recover. the 4th week should be a recovery week with very little intensity to let yourself fully recover from the training load. if you spend to many weeks training hard then you will eventually overtrain.

from the look of your training regimen, you are not varying your ride intensity enough. you should have 3 or 4 days a week of short duration light riding, divided by 3 or 4 days of workouts. these workouts could be;

tuesday - intervals, 3x10minutes at TT pace(assume a 40min TT pace), total ride time 1 hr.
thursday - 30min at a notch below TT pace, total ride time 1.5 hrs.
saturday - tempo for 60-90minutes, maybe 210watts in your case, total ride time 2.5hrs.

this is a typical week of in-season training, it might be too much intensity if your goal event is more than 4 months away.
this kind of training will raise your lactate threshold much better than the type of training week you described.
be sure to take a recovery week after 3 weeks of this training.