How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?

[ddog]

How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?

Are they discrete shifters with ratchet fine adjustment, or
are the completely rachet friction shift or
either mode?

If either, what is the preferred mode, rachet friction shift?


Thanks!!

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:33:24 -0800, ddog wrote:

> How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?
>
> Are they discrete shifters with ratchet fine adjustment, or
> are the completely rachet friction shift or
> either mode?

Ratchet only. I just got a new(er) set of shifters, and notice that the
ratcheting is much quieter with the new shifters than with the old ones.
But certainly even the new ones to have discrete clicks, with no optional
friction mode.

--

David L. Johnson

Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death.
And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

 

[Ted Bennett]

"ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:

> How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?
>
> Are they discrete shifters with ratchet fine adjustment, or
> are the completely rachet friction shift or
> either mode?
>
> If either, what is the preferred mode, rachet friction shift?
>
>
> Thanks!!

I'm more certain all the time that he's Gene Daniels.

--
Ted Bennett

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 26, 4:33 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?
>
> Are they discrete shifters with ratchet fine adjustment, or
> are the completely rachet friction shift or
> either mode?
>
> If either, what is the preferred mode, rachet friction shift?
>
> Thanks!!

For 2006 and earlier, they are a ratcheting friction. Multi position,
not depending on the FD dimension, to move the FD...think friction
with lots of 'notches'. For 2007, Centaur and below left ERGO are
positional, with only 2 clicks going up and no trim. A real step
backward in function and something I will not endorse. If somebody
has to have Centaur for 2007, 2006 ERGOs or upgrade to Chorus.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Jan 26, 6:05 pm, Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > How do left Campy Ergos ratchet shift?
>
> > Are they discrete shifters with ratchet fine adjustment, or
> > are the completely rachet friction shift or
> > either mode?
>
> > If either, what is the preferred mode, rachet friction shift?
>
> > Thanks!!I'm more certain all the time that he's Gene Daniels.


Did Gene suffer a recent brain injury? ;-)

 

[ddog]

Qui si parla Campagnolo,

Wow, great information. So 2007 Centaur and below LS ergo's are only
worth the value of the brake lever/cables.

The only way discrete shifting would seem to work on the crank would
be to have
a total redesign of the front derailleur closer to the rear
derailleur concept.
Although I've got a 2006 Centaur short rd, don't think much chance of
getting
a 2007 ergo set. I did however notice the 2007's were about $60
cheaper than 2006's on some sites.
Campy will surely feel the wrath of the market on that 'Shimano'
marketing technique.

They are already very expensive on parts, so it leaves an unpleasant
future outlook on the company's
practices, policies, and part price trends. There must NOT be that
much difference between product
levels. The biking industry value just closed up some. Too many
unknowns to mess with ergo now until
see direction they go in 2008, imo. I would rather not participate in
Japanese marketing style games.

I just hope other vendors have near the same integrity as you, or they
will lose
possible lifetime customer goodwill. It seems like a good value bike
parts company could make a strong
entry when this 'stink' hits the fan, and is acknowledged by angry
consumers getting 'stuck' with unusable shifters.

Too bad Germany doesn't have a strong bike parts company. Oh well, I
got a good $32 rd for
my ergo aerobar ratchet shifters anyway.


Thanks!!



On Jan 27, 9:00 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jan 26, 4:33 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> For 2006 and earlier, they are a ratcheting friction. Multi position,
> not depending on the FD dimension, to move the FD...think friction
> with lots of 'notches'. For 2007, Centaur and below left ERGO are
> positional, with only 2 clicks going up and no trim. A real step
> backward in function and something I will not endorse. If somebody
> has to have Centaur for 2007, 2006 ERGOs or upgrade to Chorus.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 7:43 am, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo,
>
> Wow, great information. So 2007 Centaur and below LS ergo's are only
> worth the value of the brake lever/cables.
>
> The only way discrete shifting would seem to work on the crank would
> be to have
> a total redesign of the front derailleur closer to the rear
> derailleur concept.
> Although I've got a 2006 Centaur short rd, don't think much chance of
> getting
> a 2007 ergo set. I did however notice the 2007's were about $60
> cheaper than 2006's on some sites.
> Campy will surely feel the wrath of the market on that 'Shimano'
> marketing technique.
>
> They are already very expensive on parts, so it leaves an unpleasant
> future outlook on the company's
> practices, policies, and part price trends. There must NOT be that
> much difference between product
> levels. The biking industry value just closed up some. Too many
> unknowns to mess with ergo now until
> see direction they go in 2008, imo. I would rather not participate in
> Japanese marketing style games.
>
> I just hope other vendors have near the same integrity as you, or they
> will lose
> possible lifetime customer goodwill. It seems like a good value bike
> parts company could make a strong
> entry when this 'stink' hits the fan, and is acknowledged by angry
> consumers getting 'stuck' with unusable shifters.

They aren't unusable, just not as good as the previous year...
>
> Too bad Germany doesn't have a strong bike parts company. Oh well, I
> got a good $32 rd for
> my ergo aerobar ratchet shifters anyway.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> On Jan 27, 9:00 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 26, 4:33 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > For 2006 and earlier, they are a ratcheting friction. Multi position,
> > not depending on the FD dimension, to move the FD...think friction
> > with lots of 'notches'. For 2007, Centaur and below left ERGO are
> > positional, with only 2 clicks going up and no trim. A real step
> > backward in function and something I will not endorse. If somebody
> > has to have Centaur for 2007, 2006 ERGOs or upgrade to Chorus.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 7:43 am, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo,
>
> Wow, great information. So 2007 Centaur and below LS ergo's are only
> worth the value of the brake lever/cables.
>
> The only way discrete shifting would seem to work on the crank would
> be to have
> a total redesign of the front derailleur closer to the rear
> derailleur concept.
> Although I've got a 2006 Centaur short rd, don't think much chance of
> getting
> a 2007 ergo set. I did however notice the 2007's were about $60
> cheaper than 2006's on some sites.
> Campy will surely feel the wrath of the market on that 'Shimano'
> marketing technique.
>
> They are already very expensive on parts, so it leaves an unpleasant
> future outlook on the company's
> practices, policies, and part price trends. There must NOT be that
> much difference between product
> levels. The biking industry value just closed up some. Too many
> unknowns to mess with ergo now until
> see direction they go in 2008, imo. I would rather not participate in
> Japanese marketing style games.

I wouldn't put too much into this issue..they just wanted to make a
bigger distinction between Record/Chorus and the rest..probably to
make inroads into the OEM market. Sram left shifter works the same
way, with even less versitility(no triple).

I wouldn't say Campagnolo has entered into Japanese style games.
>
> I just hope other vendors have near the same integrity as you, or they
> will lose
> possible lifetime customer goodwill. It seems like a good value bike
> parts company could make a strong
> entry when this 'stink' hits the fan, and is acknowledged by angry
> consumers getting 'stuck' with unusable shifters.
>
> Too bad Germany doesn't have a strong bike parts company. Oh well, I
> got a good $32 rd for
> my ergo aerobar ratchet shifters anyway.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> On Jan 27, 9:00 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 26, 4:33 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > For 2006 and earlier, they are a ratcheting friction. Multi position,
> > not depending on the FD dimension, to move the FD...think friction
> > with lots of 'notches'. For 2007, Centaur and below left ERGO are
> > positional, with only 2 clicks going up and no trim. A real step
> > backward in function and something I will not endorse. If somebody
> > has to have Centaur for 2007, 2006 ERGOs or upgrade to Chorus.

 

[ddog]

On Jan 27, 1:30 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I wouldn't put too much into this issue..they just wanted to make a
> bigger distinction between Record/Chorus and the rest..probably to
> make inroads into the OEM market. Sram left shifter works the same
> way, with even less versitility(no triple).
>
> I wouldn't say Campagnolo has entered into Japanese style games.


Lol, didn't mean for you to consider a name change, but a Suntour or
Rivendell
ratchet shifter for crank would be infinitely better imo looking at
front derailleur
designs. That's a shame for SRAM too. Like Sheldon has verified little
performance
difference in Shimano models of Rear derailleurs, there may not be a
big difference
between Mirage and Chorus ergo's performance neither. Same time
between
maintenance, although the more expensive ones may last longer. There
will
be a backlash for this move for Campy and a minority of LBS's who
carry Campy.
A 'bigger distinction' in product lines usually means making top lines
BETTER; and does not mean making
your bottom 4 of 6 product lines WORSE and inneffective products.
That's evolving
product line design DOWN no matter how it is justified, and probably a
larger
percentage of buyers effected than product lines. As a customer, what
would you
say when you get it bolted up and find out afterwards?

What's next? The trend has started.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 10:58 am, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 27, 1:30 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't put too much into this issue..they just wanted to make a
> > bigger distinction between Record/Chorus and the rest..probably to
> > make inroads into the OEM market. Sram left shifter works the same
> > way, with even less versitility(no triple).
>
> > I wouldn't say Campagnolo has entered into Japanese style games.Lol, didn't mean for you to consider a name change, but a Suntour or
> Rivendell
> ratchet shifter for crank would be infinitely better imo looking at
> front derailleur
> designs. That's a shame for SRAM too. Like Sheldon has verified little
> performance
> difference in Shimano models of Rear derailleurs, there may not be a
> big difference
> between Mirage and Chorus ergo's performance neither. Same time
> between
> maintenance, although the more expensive ones may last longer. There
> will
> be a backlash for this move for Campy and a minority of LBS's who
> carry Campy.
> A 'bigger distinction' in product lines usually means making top lines
> BETTER; and does not mean making
> your bottom 4 of 6 product lines WORSE and inneffective products.
> That's evolving
> product line design DOWN no matter how it is justified, and probably a
> larger
> percentage of buyers effected than product lines. As a customer, what
> would you
> say when you get it bolted up and find out afterwards?
>
> What's next? The trend has started.

c'mon, may be 'overthinking' this...I wouldn't say this is anything
significant. hasn't been really anything significant in bicycle stuff
design in 2 decades.

 

[Gary Young]

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:25:48 -0800, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> On Jan 27, 7:43 am, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo,
>>
>> Wow, great information. So 2007 Centaur and below LS ergo's are only
>> worth the value of the brake lever/cables.
>>
>> The only way discrete shifting would seem to work on the crank would
>> be to have
>> a total redesign of the front derailleur closer to the rear
>> derailleur concept.
>> Although I've got a 2006 Centaur short rd, don't think much chance of
>> getting
>> a 2007 ergo set. I did however notice the 2007's were about $60
>> cheaper than 2006's on some sites.
>> Campy will surely feel the wrath of the market on that 'Shimano'
>> marketing technique.
>>
>> They are already very expensive on parts, so it leaves an unpleasant
>> future outlook on the company's
>> practices, policies, and part price trends. There must NOT be that
>> much difference between product
>> levels. The biking industry value just closed up some. Too many
>> unknowns to mess with ergo now until
>> see direction they go in 2008, imo. I would rather not participate in
>> Japanese marketing style games.
>>
>> I just hope other vendors have near the same integrity as you, or they
>> will lose
>> possible lifetime customer goodwill. It seems like a good value bike
>> parts company could make a strong
>> entry when this 'stink' hits the fan, and is acknowledged by angry
>> consumers getting 'stuck' with unusable shifters.
>
> They aren't unusable, just not as good as the previous year...
>>

What I like about the old-style left-hand ergo levers is that I can use
them with Shimano mountain front derailleurs and cranks that don't have
chainring spacing matching Campy's specs.

Is that still possible with the new levers or do they have to be mated
with a campy derailleur and crank?

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 1:25 pm, Gary Young <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:25:48 -0800, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 27, 7:43 am, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Qui si parla Campagnolo,
>
> >> Wow, great information. So 2007 Centaur and below LS ergo's are only
> >> worth the value of the brake lever/cables.
>
> >> The only way discrete shifting would seem to work on the crank would
> >> be to have
> >> a total redesign of the front derailleur closer to the rear
> >> derailleur concept.
> >> Although I've got a 2006 Centaur short rd, don't think much chance of
> >> getting
> >> a 2007 ergo set. I did however notice the 2007's were about $60
> >> cheaper than 2006's on some sites.
> >> Campy will surely feel the wrath of the market on that 'Shimano'
> >> marketing technique.
>
> >> They are already very expensive on parts, so it leaves an unpleasant
> >> future outlook on the company's
> >> practices, policies, and part price trends. There must NOT be that
> >> much difference between product
> >> levels. The biking industry value just closed up some. Too many
> >> unknowns to mess with ergo now until
> >> see direction they go in 2008, imo. I would rather not participate in
> >> Japanese marketing style games.
>
> >> I just hope other vendors have near the same integrity as you, or they
> >> will lose
> >> possible lifetime customer goodwill. It seems like a good value bike
> >> parts company could make a strong
> >> entry when this 'stink' hits the fan, and is acknowledged by angry
> >> consumers getting 'stuck' with unusable shifters.
>
> > They aren't unusable, just not as good as the previous year...What I like about the old-style left-hand ergo levers is that I can use
> them with Shimano mountain front derailleurs and cranks that don't have
> chainring spacing matching Campy's specs.
>
> Is that still possible with the new levers or do they have to be mated
> with a campy derailleur and crank?

Still possible with Record and Chorus, those did not change for 2007,
and 2006 and older anything.

 

[ddog]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>> ddog wrote:
> > What's next? The trend has started.
>
> c'mon, may be 'overthinking' this...I wouldn't say this is anything
> significant. hasn't been really anything significant in bicycle stuff
> design in 2 decades.

Qui si parla Campagnolo,

I suppose you're right, but not being in competition, Chorus and
Record are generally out for me
with Centaur being my best value. After 2007, I won't ever be buying
anything since a
conversion may cost almost as much as a record. The parts on
refurbishing a used model
looks like it runs up to $200: 2x $45 hoods, $45 8 speed gear unit,
$40 cables/housing, 2x$5 springs,...

Still like the ergo product though, so will keep reevaluating them.
And maybe all this change is just to screw people out of an extra $45
gear unit and labor to make it ratchet.
But I don't know if it is still possible, and if you don't, then that
is a concern anyway.
I'll ask Branford next week when they open. So now every ergo I'd
consider, would have to ask the vendor:
does left side ratchet, if no wratchet can it be converted and with
what parts, and does it include cables/housing.
Noticed some vendors quit giving internal cables and housings. LBS's
might start converting old models
to like 2007 including Record and Chorus since Campy started doing it.

They look like they 'HAD' the best serviceable design, but now my
newbie question is:

How many years does Campy support a model year?

15 seems on the long side unless product currently running. Maybe 10
years per model group
sounds right, so that would make 2008 a possible target to cut off pre
1998 model ergos, except common
parts of course.


Thanks!

 

[ddog]

>From looking at ergo conversions on Brandon site for right side
levers, it looks like a $45 gear unit and $13 rachet part to change
the 2007 Centaurs LS grip to rachet, as a minimum. Since I will always
have an 8 speed with my IRD HG freewheel, that would double those same
exact parts up for me to get for left and right, so that's an unneeded
expense. Changing a 9 speed to 8 speed would just be the $45 gear unit
part, but 9 speeds are $13 more than 10 speeds, lol. They have every
angle covered down to the penny.

I still see allot of leftside ergos for sale, even though they are
ratchet, on ebay so they must not be worthy compared to a ratchet
friction shifter. Dont' know if anyone is buying left side ergos, but
that means have to buy a pair of tektro r220a levers. I definitely
'want' a 1999 up Centaur, and something was done in 2004 but not sure
if done to Records only or to all bikes. Its funny reading the ads:"
Oh every model up parts are better than below". But when you look at
parts page, they are all the same parts for all models except the gear
units and ratchet mechanisms.

The right side 8 speed feels like a comfortable purchase again, so
there was nothing lost in the 2007 leftside discrete shift. For a
brief moment, I was thinking just maybe, I'll save on tektros and
cables, but no dice. Just caught in a brief Jap marketing cyclone.

FYI, 1971 Raleigh is running strong now on 53x15t, the smallest rear
sprocket I can go on with too tight Suntour freewheel (or rd may just
need adjusting): but its the Dura Ace 175mm crank that is the magic.
So switching only 2 gears now, and 3 gears when get rear drive
together with ratchets and/or ergo later. No hurry though. For 2004 up
Centaur ergos, can get cheaper new than on ebay: generally from
sellers often bidding up with different ids ( :-o) Then you see the
same exact part again in a couple day ( :-O)

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 27 Jan 2007 19:06:49 -0800, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:

>friction shifter. Dont' know if anyone is buying left side ergos, but
>that means have to buy a pair of tektro r220a levers. I definitely
>'want' a 1999 up Centaur, and something was done in 2004 but not sure
>if done to Records only or to all bikes. Its funny reading the ads:"
>Oh every model up parts are better than below". But when you look at
>parts page, they are all the same parts for all models except the gear
>units and ratchet mechanisms.

I have a new Veloce x 10sp right hand lever that I bought for spare
parts and haven't used at all. I have no 8sp index ratchet. I've
got several 9sp ratchets. If have a strong feeling that if you use
any Shimano rear derailleur with the cable attached to the upper part
of the cable attachment, you'll shift 8sp Campy.

You mentioned you had a freewheel. If you had a freehub, you can
respace and get 9 cogs onto an 8sp Campy freehub body.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 4:01 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> >> ddog wrote:
> > > What's next? The trend has started.
>
> > c'mon, may be 'overthinking' this...I wouldn't say this is anything
> > significant. hasn't been really anything significant in bicycle stuff
> > design in 2 decades.Qui si parla Campagnolo,
>
> I suppose you're right, but not being in competition, Chorus and
> Record are generally out for me
> with Centaur being my best value. After 2007, I won't ever be buying
> anything since a
> conversion may cost almost as much as a record. The parts on
> refurbishing a used model
> looks like it runs up to $200: 2x $45 hoods, $45 8 speed gear unit,
> $40 cables/housing, 2x$5 springs,...
>
> Still like the ergo product though, so will keep reevaluating them.
> And maybe all this change is just to screw people out of an extra $45
> gear unit and labor to make it ratchet.
> But I don't know if it is still possible, and if you don't, then that
> is a concern anyway.

Not possible to make 2007 Centaur and below like 2006, using 2006
innards..Completely different design, inside.

> I'll ask Branford next week when they open. So now every ergo I'd
> consider, would have to ask the vendor:
> does left side ratchet, if no wratchet can it be converted and with
> what parts, and does it include cables/housing.

See above, cannot convert it.

> Noticed some vendors quit giving internal cables and housings. LBS's
> might start converting old models
> to like 2007 including Record and Chorus since Campy started doing it.

Unable, once again.
>
> They look like they 'HAD' the best serviceable design, but now my
> newbie question is:
>
> How many years does Campy support a model year?

Well, 8s cogs are still made and they went to 9s in 1997.
>
> 15 seems on the long side unless product currently running. Maybe 10
> years per model group
> sounds right, so that would make 2008 a possible target to cut off pre
> 1998 model ergos, except common
> parts of course. Cannot convert but stil plenty of 2006 ERGOs out there. Get those, some small parts and go ride.
>
> Thanks!

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jan 27, 8:06 pm, "ddog" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >From looking at ergo conversions on Brandon site for right sidelevers, it looks like a $45 gear unit and $13 rachet part to change
> the 2007 Centaurs LS grip to rachet, as a minimum.

Sorry, cannot be done.

Since I will always
> have an 8 speed with my IRD HG freewheel, that would double those same
> exact parts up for me to get for left and right, so that's an unneeded
> expense. Changing a 9 speed to 8 speed would just be the $45 gear unit
> part, but 9 speeds are $13 more than 10 speeds, lol. They have every
> angle covered down to the penny.
>
> I still see allot of leftside ergos for sale, even though they are
> ratchet, on ebay so they must not be worthy compared to a ratchet
> friction shifter. Dont' know if anyone is buying left side ergos, but
> that means have to buy a pair of tektro r220a levers. I definitely
> 'want' a 1999 up Centaur, and something was done in 2004 but not sure
> if done to Records only or to all bikes.

'Ultra, carbon spring carrier and drilled and coated shift disc..all
else belwo are the same.

Its funny reading the ads:"
> Oh every model up parts are better than below". But when you look at
> parts page, they are all the same parts for all models except the gear
> units and ratchet mechanisms.
>
> The right side 8 speed feels like a comfortable purchase again, so
> there was nothing lost in the 2007 leftside discrete shift. For a
> brief moment, I was thinking just maybe, I'll save on tektros and
> cables, but no dice. Just caught in a brief Jap marketing cyclone.

OK then, last post to you..not a fan of the Japanese(lived there for 3
years), but being derogatory is bad form, IMO. Good luck with
branford.
>
> FYI, 1971 Raleigh is running strong now on 53x15t, the smallest rear
> sprocket I can go on with too tight Suntour freewheel (or rd may just
> need adjusting): but its the Dura Ace 175mm crank that is the magic.
> So switching only 2 gears now, and 3 gears when get rear drive
> together with ratchets and/or ergo later. No hurry though. For 2004 up
> Centaur ergos, can get cheaper new than on ebay: generally from
> sellers often bidding up with different ids ( :-o) Then you see the
> same exact part again in a couple day ( :-O)

 

[ddog]

Thanks Qui si parla Campagnolo, you've been a great help.

 

[ddog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2006/features/
campaggroups2007

Here's some general information about other 2007 Quick Shift (QS)
parameters, not including Left side shifters changes.
So maybe when searching, have a -2007 and -qs in search parameters,
unless you like to change gears under load.

 

[A Muzi]

ddog wrote:
-snip long, many confused statements-
> brief moment, I was thinking just maybe, I'll save on tektros and
> cables, but no dice. Just caught in a brief Jap marketing cyclone.
-snip long, many confused statements-

If we are talking about Campagnolo (Italian) and Tektro (Free China-
Taiwan ROC)how the heck did you get to the Japanese ("Jap marketing")
from there?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971