How to mount extremely difficult tires?



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David

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Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto old Bontrager/Weinmann
rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires I've used seem to go and off
easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires), but in the past those haven't
made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the correct tube size.
Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the center, leaving the bead
area bare.

First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to without pry them over the
rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was more bead unmounted then I've ever
seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry them over the rim with a skinny plastic tire lever, it
snapped. When I used a thicker tire lever, the rim deformed slightly, although the tire did go on.

What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a problem like this. How do you
mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?

David
 
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto
old Bontrager/Weinmann
> rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires
I've used seem to go and
> off easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires),
but in the past those haven't
> made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the
correct tube size.
> Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the
center, leaving the bead
> area bare.
>
> First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to
without pry them over
> the rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was
more bead
> unmounted then I've ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry
them over the rim
> with a skinny plastic tire lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire
lever, the rim deformed
> slightly, although the tire did go on.
>
> What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a
problem like this.
> How do you mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?
>
> David
>
Once upon a time, there was a thing called a tire jacker. I don't know if they still make them or
not. What it was, was a forked piece that sat on the edge of the rim and a hooked piece that pulled
the bead up and over. Worked like a charm, so I bought one. In the almost 10 years I've owned it,
I've maybe used it twice...

Lots of times, all it takes is a strong grip. Use the joint between your fingers and palms and roll.
My thumbs aren't usually strong enough to get that last little bit.

If you haven't screwed the tire up, maybe you should think about exchanging
it. What happens if/when you get a flat out on the road??

Mike
 
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06...
>> Lots of times, all it takes is a strong grip. Use the joint between your
> fingers and palms and roll. My thumbs aren't usually strong enough to get that last little bit.

That's the thing: Usually there's a last little bit, but this time there was a last lot of bead that
I couldn't mount by hand..

> If you haven't screwed the tire up, maybe you should think about exchanging
> it. What happens if/when you get a flat out on the road??

I'm aware of that, but it's only partially a concern. I'd given this bike to my wife to replace her
stolen bike, and I've been setting it up the way she likes it (grocery-getter/ commuter style). She
has never changed a flat in her life, and wouldn't do it even if the tires were easy to mount. On
her old bike I used slime tubes. Since I haven't seen pre-slimed ones in presta, I've tried
tire-liners with this bike.

David
 
Originally posted by David
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06...
>> Lots of times, all it takes is a strong grip. Use the joint between your
> fingers and palms and roll. My thumbs aren't usually strong enough to get that last little bit.

That's the thing: Usually there's a last little bit, but this time there was a last lot of bead that
I couldn't mount by hand..

> If you haven't screwed the tire up, maybe you should think about exchanging
> it. What happens if/when you get a flat out on the road??

I'm aware of that, but it's only partially a concern. I'd given this bike to my wife to replace her
stolen bike, and I've been setting it up the way she likes it (grocery-getter/ commuter style). She
has never changed a flat in her life, and wouldn't do it even if the tires were easy to mount. On
her old bike I used slime tubes. Since I haven't seen pre-slimed ones in presta, I've tried
tire-liners with this bike.

David
Click to expand...
Keep most of the bead from both sides of the tire centered on the rim.
Use tire talc to make things slide more easily.
Some tires are very tough to mount.
When I get one of the tougher ones I put the entire wheel in my "lap" with the mounted portion at my waist and the "to-be'-mounted" section at arms reach. I use the heals of my hands the finish the process, while hooking my fingers over the tire.
I hope you can picture the process.
Remember to check that the bead hasn't trapped the tube between the rim and tire. Also clean any remaining talc of the rim with a damp rag before you try applying rim brakes. Clean the floor too, as it get slippery.
 
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06...

> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto
> old Bontrager/Weinmann
> > rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires
> I've used seem to go and
> > off easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires),
> but in the past those haven't
> > made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the
> correct tube size.
> > Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the
> center, leaving the bead
> > area bare.

> > First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to
> without pry them over
> > the rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was
> more bead
> > unmounted then I've ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry
> them over the rim
> > with a skinny plastic tire lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire
> lever, the rim deformed
> > slightly, although the tire did go on.
> >
> > What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a
> problem like this.

Sometimes you get a tight fit, when there's a tire on the tight side of average, and a rim on the
big side of average.

> > How do you mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?

Squeeze the beads together, and jam them down in the rim bed as far as possible, to get as much
clearance for the tire to slip over the rim on the other side. Sometimes thinner rim tape makes this
possible, where Velox is too bulky.

> If you haven't screwed the tire up, maybe you should think about exchanging
> it. What happens if/when you get a flat out on the road??

I agree. I used to have a set of Continental Avenues, which were wonderfully fast, but way too
difficult to get on and off. I couldn't do it without drawing blood, even with sturdy tire levers.
So I got rid of them.

Being stranded by a flat is worth considering. With so many different tires available, there's no
reason to put up with this.

Perhaps someone could recommend a similar tire, which they have no trouble with on their own
Bontrager/Weinman rims.

Matt O.
 
David wrote:
> Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto old Bontrager/Weinmann
> rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires I've used seem to go and
> off easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires), but in the past those
> haven't made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the correct tube size.
> Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the center, leaving the bead
> area bare.
>
> First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to without pry them over the
> rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was more bead unmounted then I've
> ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry them over the rim with a skinny plastic tire
> lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire lever, the rim deformed slightly, although the tire
> did go on.
>
> What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a problem like this. How do you
> mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?
>
> David

Apart from the advice yo've already gotten. Don't forget to start as far away from the valve as
possible. Closing in from both sides towards the valve. The reason is obvious of course since the
valve is the only place you cannot get the beads down in the center of the rim as is the last place
you are closing.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:<2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06>...
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto
> old Bontrager/Weinmann
> > rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires
> I've used seem to go and
> > off easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires),
> but in the past those haven't
> > made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the
> correct tube size.
> > Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the
> center, leaving the bead
> > area bare.
> >
> > First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to
> without pry them over
> > the rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was
> more bead
> > unmounted then I've ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry
> them over the rim
> > with a skinny plastic tire lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire
> lever, the rim deformed
> > slightly, although the tire did go on.
> >
> > What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a
> problem like this.
> > How do you mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?
> >
> > David
> >
> Once upon a time, there was a thing called a tire jacker. I don't know if they still make them or
> not. What it was, was a forked piece that sat on the edge of the rim and a hooked piece that
> pulled the bead up and over. Worked like a charm, so I bought one. In the almost 10 years I've
> owned it, I've maybe used it twice...
>
What you can get thats very similar to what you describe is a VAR tire lever. This lever pulls the
tire over the rim and doesn't damage the tire, tube or rim as its made of plastic (note - don't use
in really cold weather as supposedly it could crack). I've NEVER had a problems mounting any
clincher tire on a rim with this tool. For more info see here:

http://www.terrybicycles.com/BPA/7400000.lasso

or here:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/tools/19045.html
 
In article <2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06>, mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet says...

>Once upon a time, there was a thing called a tire jacker. I don't know if they still make them or
>not. What it was, was a forked piece that sat on the edge of the rim and a hooked piece that pulled
>the bead up and over. Worked like a charm, so I bought one. In the almost 10 years I've owned it,
>I've maybe used it twice...

VAR makes/made tire levers that do exactly what you describe. That's what I carry in my under
seat pack.

---------------
Alex
 
Buy 'em dinner and a few drinks?

Bill "yeah, yeah...it's Friday" S.
 
"bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> What you can get thats very similar to what you describe is a VAR tire lever. This lever pulls the
> tire over the rim and doesn't damage the tire, tube or rim as its made of plastic (note - don't
> use in really cold weather as supposedly it could crack). I've NEVER had a problems mounting any
> clincher tire on a rim with this tool. For more info see here:

Thanks, I'll order those.

I've seen a few "easy tire installation" gadgets in the past, at bike shows, but never in the "real
world". I recall one or two that had a long lever that pivoted around the axle -- not ideal for your
jersey pocket, but probably good in the garage.

Oh, and thanks everyone else for the suggestions too.

David
 
> First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to
without pry them over
> the rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was
more bead
> unmounted then I've ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry
them over the rim
> with a skinny plastic tire lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire
lever, the rim deformed
> slightly, although the tire did go on.

I once mounted a 26x1.5 tire on a 27 1/4" rim on my parents' bike back when I didn't know anything
about bikes. I thought to myself, "Wow this one is really hard to put on." It wasn't until I heard
about road bike tire sizes and 700c that I realized it might not be the right size. And even then I
was still wrong. I was about 15 at the time... I was using screwdrivers on a steel rim.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
In article <[email protected]>, "David"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > What you can get thats very similar to what you describe is a VAR tire lever. This lever pulls
> > the tire over the rim and doesn't damage the tire, tube or rim as its made of plastic (note -
> > don't use in really cold weather as supposedly it could crack). I've NEVER had a problems
> > mounting any clincher tire on a rim with this tool. For more info see here:
>
> Thanks, I'll order those.
>
> I've seen a few "easy tire installation" gadgets in the past, at bike shows, but never in the
> "real world". I recall one or two that had a long lever that pivoted around the axle -- not ideal
> for your jersey pocket, but probably good in the garage.

Au contraire! The esteemed Crank Brothers make a portable version of this tool called the Speed
Lever. It slides open and closes to about the size of a 3-pack of small tire levers. It does both
on and off, and the tool surfaces looks very much like the Terry bead jacker seen elsewhere in
this thread.

If you need more convincing, it's actually cheaper than the Terry tool, despite being more tool, in
my opinion.

http://www.crankbrothers.com/products/accessories_speedlever.php

In practice, my results have been mixed but mostly positive. At first, I found that when I tried to
use it to whip a tire off the rim as it suggests, the friction between the tire and the tool was too
high for it to move. I had to use a conventional lever to help things get started.

That said, spitting on the tool (suggested in the product FAQ) does help things greatly, and a few
uses seem to have also broken it in a bit. In all, I would probably buy it again (if only because
it is so conceptually cool), and I like how it works in practice, but wished it worked a tetch
more easily.

> Oh, and thanks everyone else for the suggestions too.

You're welcome.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
 
I recently purchased a telescoping tire lever by Crank Brothers, and it was really helpful in
getting some tight tires onto my rim. One end attaches to the axle, the other goes over the rim and
tire and by rotating it around the rim it forces the tire in. It sells for around $6 so it's worth a
try. Park makes what appears to be a heavy duty version, but it isn't telescoping so it can't be
taken on the road.

--
Kovie [email protected]

"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto
old Bontrager/Weinmann
> rims. Other tires mount easily on these rims, and the other Kenda tires
I've used seem to go and
> off easily. I was using tire liners (the correct size for these tires),
but in the past those haven't
> made it impossible for me to get the bead over the rim. I also had the
correct tube size.
> Additionally I'm using the thinnest rim tape I've seen, and it is in the
center, leaving the bead
> area bare.
>
> First I couldn't even come close to getting these on by hand: I had to
without pry them over
> the rim. When I ran out of what I could mount with my hands there was
more bead
> unmounted then I've ever seen on any tire before. When I tried to pry
them over the rim
> with a skinny plastic tire lever, it snapped. When I used a thicker tire
lever, the rim deformed
> slightly, although the tire did go on.
>
> What gives? I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a
problem like this.
> How do you mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?
>
> David
 
> I once mounted a 26x1.5 tire on a 27 1/4" rim on my parents' bike back when I didn't know anything
> about bikes. I thought to myself, "Wow this one is really hard to put on." It wasn't until I heard
> about road bike tire sizes and 700c that I realized it might not be the right size. And even then
> I was still wrong. I was about 15 at the time... I was using screwdrivers on a steel rim.

I once tried to mount a 27x1¼" Continental Sport 1000 on a 27x1¼" rim. Man, was that a mistake.
 
"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:2u9tb.1484$6G3.505@fed1read06...
>
> > "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
>
> > > Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires
>
> I agree. I used to have a set of Continental Avenues, which were wonderfully fast, but way too
> difficult to get on and off. I couldn't do it without drawing blood, even with sturdy tire levers.
> So I got rid of them.
>

Ditto on the Continental Avenues. I could get them mounted with lots of brute force and various tire
levers but getting them to seat correctly when inflating was near impossible. They'd never hook onto
the rim correctly resulting in bulges and dips. The only way I could EVER get them correctly seated
was by applying liberal amounts of dishwashing liquid to the inside of the rim and over-inflating
the tube. (for the record.. one can inflate the conti avenues to over 115
PSI... scary stuff! the side-wall rating is 80 max).

I've since replaced the contis with a pair of 26x1.2 Kenda Kwests which are easier to get on, WAY
easier to seat correctly and really fast

Anine
 
> David search for DIY tire removal and try prestone silicone spray
problems develop from not getting the beads together toward the rim center 360 degrees.leaving the
beads hung up shortens the tire diameter in relation to the rim diameter.the tool use in DIY will
solve the problem. the spray isa winner and off course can be used to develop mercury poisoning from
lubricating fishing reels
 
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Last night I was trying to mound Kenda Kwick 1.7" x 26" folding tires onto old Bontrager/Weinmann
> rims. I've installed tires for ages, and never encountered a problem like this. How do you mount
> extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?

lots of other posters gave excellent advice. my paltry additions:

-sometimes something slippery, more slippery than talc, can help. like detergent.

-the muscular brutish hand motion used to force tight tires on is not intuitive becuase it Hurts.
every once in a while when i get one of those ridiculously bad fits, i come away from the job with
what amounts to a frikkin' burn on my palms;)

-koolstop (i believe) distrubutes a tool which is as best as i can tell analogous to the
'tire-jacker' device mentioned elsewhere. it costs something like 5 bucks wholesale from qbp, so an
LBS can order
it. it is a burly looking black plastic tool that gives you some non trivial leverage for getting a
tire on, but greatly reduces the risk of pinching the tube (nothing quite eliminates it,
AFAIK). there is also a smaller, portable device that i bought. for a few bucks. it is grey
plastic, and uses the same principle, but with a less robust, and much smaller design. it
doesnt have a manufacturer stamped on it, and i cant remember where it came from. it might be
convenient for tight tires on a roadside flat, but frankly i have only used it once or twice.
for everything but the tightest tires i use my hands. for the true beasts i use the invincible
kool stop import.

i really like tire removal and installation tools. for some inexplicable reason. this is off topic,
but my system is as follows: for 90% of flat tubes, i get the tire off with one park tl-1 tire
lever, which i appreciate for its unbreakableness and smooth edges, and get the tires back on by
hand. for the tough tires to dismount, i use a pair of the big park metal shop levers, until i can
slip the blue plastic lever (rim friendly, hand friendly) in and slide it around the circumference.
if im on the road, i woudlnt take those huge shop levers, but would instead take a pair of small
metal levers. i have a trio that i modified with a grinder and a file so they are much easier to
dismount tires with. and to get them back on, either hands or the koolstop thing.

thigns i dont like: just about every single plastic tire lever on the market, except for the park
tl-1, and the ones that come with mavic wheels.
 
"Larry Fieman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:n6Ktb.166642$ao4.540475@attbi_s51...
>
> "> How do you mount extremely difficult tires without destroying the rim?
>
> I like the (formerly) VAR tool as previously mentioned. I also like the ti tire levers by King
> Cage http://www.kingcage.com/Home.html#

I don't want metal tire levers--I haven't used those for ages. In this case as I mentioned in the
first post, I bent the rim slightly with a plastic lever. I don't think metal would do better there.
 
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