IMBA Advocates Illegal Night Riding!



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)

Dan, I usually only ride at night during the wintertime, because our evenings
are long! I have yet to hear about any complaints from people about night
riding, I think most people are just amazed people ride at night. So issues in
Boise with night riding are non-existant, but I can't imagine that is the case
everywhere.

One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking lots
remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight camping. So
one solution would be for IMBA to come up with a universal hanging tag that
mountain bikers could hang from there rear veiw mirror. On the hanging tag you
would have a basic message saying I am a night rider..blah..blah and then have
a little rotating dial that the rider can use to let someone know what time
they departed the car and what time they will return. Then the patroling ranger
knows they are out riding for a defined period of time and are not trying to
camp. In high crime areas this might not work.

I definatly agree that mountain biking could help keep a park safer at night,
although you probably would not catch me riding in an area with serious
criminals.

So does IMBA have any studies on night riding and the effects on wildlife? My
observations is that some wildlife is intially afraid of mountain bikers if
they have never seen one before. But overall I think once the wildlife gets use
to bikes it should not present an issue since we are not percieved as a
predator. For example if you go to a national park which does not allow hunting
how close can you get to the wildlife, I have found you can get really close
while if you are on regular public land which allows hunting then the wildlife
is a little more scared because they may associate you with something that will
kill them. For example I was riding along the coast in Norcal near redwood np
and an elk was standing right near the trail. We walked our bikes past him and
the only reason he moved was to chew on something else, it was an amazing
experiance for sure. By the way I have nothing against hunting. Wildlife will
get use to your presence and learn a mountain bike does not mean death.

I bought my first night light in 1997 and have loved riding with it. The one
thing I always stress to new riders is to carry a small backup headlamp like a
petzel tikka. If you have a handlebar mounted light then this is vital to have
for on the trail repairs and is also a backup light in case your primary light
fails. And also it is always nice to have a rear light so someone else can tell
more easily you are their.

Chris

=====
Christopher Cook
IMBA Representative for Idaho
SWIMBA President
1700 Irene St.
Boise, ID 83702
208-363-1850 (D)
208-794-7255(Cell)

http://www.IMBA.com

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel as
usual> ===
> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations before
you state hiking/trail use is illegal. Again....little boy. For the jury.
Point to where the bad man touched you at night. And Yes..I am feeding the
Troll.........

TJ
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)


That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do something
non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole organization
is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]
 
You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime only,
it means no over night use. Sheesh!


All that is needed is for the rider to return before the ranger comes around
to lock the gate. I think thej original poster has an excellent idea to ride
without impacting hikers, all he need to do is get back to the car before
the rangers come around to lock the gates. A Day Use park is going to be
open from 0800 to 2100, or some such time - the actual time is not
important, only the idea that there is an opening time and a closing time is
important to understand. Visitors are not allowed to remain past closing
time, that is they can use the park for a day at a time, not several days
continuously. Of course, you can go back day after day, but you can not
remain there continuously through an entire 24 hour period.
 
"Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > To: [email protected]
> > Cc: [email protected]
> > From: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)

>
> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do

something
> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole

organization
> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
>


I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP didn't
understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even if that
meant he was there after darkness fell.

It also appeared to me that he was suggesting that Day Use could be modified
to allow use after dark if the visitor placed a Will Return At _____ placard
in his windshield. It appeared he was looking for a way to approach the park
with an idea that could extend the useful hours of the park. But, the park
is open and accessable for some number of hours during every 24-hour period,
and the park can be used during those hours whether or not the daylight
hours have turned to darkness.

Vandeman is a stark raving lunatic to suggest that it is illegal to ride
just because the park is open for Day Use, and it is after dark ...
 
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel as
..usual> ===
..> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..
..Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations before
..you state hiking/trail use is illegal.

Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night riding.

Again....little boy. For the jury.
..Point to where the bad man touched you at night. And Yes..I am feeding the
..Troll.........
..
..TJ
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 04:44:40 GMT, "Scott Burley" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> To: [email protected]
..> Cc: [email protected]
..> From: [email protected]
..> Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
..> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
..
..That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do something
..non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole organization
..is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.

He did it over his official "IMBA Rep" signature. That makes it an official act
of IMBA.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> news:[email protected]...
..> > To: [email protected]
..> > Cc: [email protected]
..> > From: [email protected]
..> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
..> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
..>
..> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do
..something
..> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole
..organization
..> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
..>
..
..I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP didn't
..understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even if that
..meant he was there after darkness fell.

He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.

..It also appeared to me that he was suggesting that Day Use could be modified
..to allow use after dark if the visitor placed a Will Return At _____ placard
..in his windshield. It appeared he was looking for a way to approach the park
..with an idea that could extend the useful hours of the park. But, the park
..is open and accessable for some number of hours during every 24-hour period,
..and the park can be used during those hours whether or not the daylight
..hours have turned to darkness.
..
..Vandeman is a stark raving lunatic to suggest that it is illegal to ride
..just because the park is open for Day Use, and it is after dark ...

READ the post.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:19:01 GMT, bizbee <[email protected]> wrote:

..On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 02:34:51 GMT in
..<[email protected]>, Mike Vandeman
..<[email protected]> graced the world with this thought:
..
..>One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking lots
..>remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight camping.
..
..Keyword: imagine
.....and, as is typical, you base an entire argument on the imagination
..of one person, who is quite clearly wrong, and then go on to rant
..about it, robbing anyone who reads your rant of a minute of their
..lives they'll never get back.
..Ask yourself this: Has any park service, from city to federal, ever
..put up signs that you know of, in order to "try to prevent" someone
..from doing something, but stating otherwise?
..If they didn't want overnight camping, but night use was OK, the sign
..would read "no overnight campers." Then the enforcing service would
..come in and cite everyone caught camping overnight. The sign says "day
..use only." That's exactly what it means, trust me. As it stands, I
..<imagine> that if you're caught doing <anything> there after dark,
..you'll be cited. He's just lucky so far... if he even uses these parks
..at night. And, if he doesn't, why not? He "imagines" it's OK, and the
..signs are meant for someone other than him...
..
..Just how does one go about "closing" a parking lot, anyway? Roll it
..up? Cover it with a tarp? A simple "no use after dark" sign isn't
..enough, it has to be made physically impossible to use? If someone
..leaves their keys in their car, is it OK to just drive it away? The
..light is red, but there's no cars, so it's OK to run it? Surely these
..things are only advisories, right?
..
..In this particular case, I think we're talking about a comment from a
..cyclist who quite obviously doesn't wear a helmet... and you actually
..believe what he says. Notice, he doesn't say that he parks his car in
..the lot and then goes riding... I especially like the part where you
..leave a little tag with a rotating dial on it, stating what time
..you'll be returning, so the "patrolling ranger" (this means a whole
..new shift of rangers can be hired to patrol at night, too, more baby
..sitters making $60K a year to clean idiots off of the countryside) is
..aware of what they're doing. Of course, bike riders would never camp,
..right?
..
..Then there's the comment about mountain biking at night would
..<definitely> make the park safer at night.... hmmm... so will closing
..it... and... safer for what? Who?
..All you've done is regurgitate a letter from an idiot, and try to
..present it as some kind of proof that this organization backs his
..opinion because they were the recipient.

No, because he wrote it over his official "IMBA Rep" signature, making it an
official act of IMBA.

If this guy is the president
..of the local chapter, my guess is he's the only person in that
..chapter.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:37:13 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime only,
..it means no over night use. Sheesh!

Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!
..
..All that is needed is for the rider to return before the ranger comes around
..to lock the gate. I think thej original poster has an excellent idea to ride
..without impacting hikers, all he need to do is get back to the car before
..the rangers come around to lock the gates. A Day Use park is going to be
..open from 0800 to 2100, or some such time - the actual time is not
..important, only the idea that there is an opening time and a closing time is
..important to understand. Visitors are not allowed to remain past closing
..time, that is they can use the park for a day at a time, not several days
..continuously. Of course, you can go back day after day, but you can not
..remain there continuously through an entire 24 hour period.
..
..
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>

wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel

as
> .usual> ===
> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations

before
> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
>
> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night riding.


Hey Mike, you know how you're always demanding that people prove that you
lie? Well this is it. The original post is reproduced below. Notice that he
admits to night riding, and complains that some parks are day-use-only, but
never once says that he is night riding in these parks. He MIGHT be breaking
the rules, but he has not admitted to this. Now please, shut the hell up.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

--

To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)

Dan, I usually only ride at night during the wintertime, because our
evenings
are long! I have yet to hear about any complaints from people about night
riding, I think most people are just amazed people ride at night. So issues
in
Boise with night riding are non-existant, but I can't imagine that is the
case
everywhere.

One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking
lots
remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight camping.
So
one solution would be for IMBA to come up with a universal hanging tag that
mountain bikers could hang from there rear veiw mirror. On the hanging tag
you
would have a basic message saying I am a night rider..blah..blah and then
have
a little rotating dial that the rider can use to let someone know what time
they departed the car and what time they will return. Then the patroling
ranger
knows they are out riding for a defined period of time and are not trying to
camp. In high crime areas this might not work.

I definatly agree that mountain biking could help keep a park safer at
night,
although you probably would not catch me riding in an area with serious
criminals.

So does IMBA have any studies on night riding and the effects on wildlife?
My
observations is that some wildlife is intially afraid of mountain bikers if
they have never seen one before. But overall I think once the wildlife gets
use
to bikes it should not present an issue since we are not percieved as a
predator. For example if you go to a national park which does not allow
hunting
how close can you get to the wildlife, I have found you can get really close
while if you are on regular public land which allows hunting then the
wildlife
is a little more scared because they may associate you with something that
will
kill them. For example I was riding along the coast in Norcal near redwood
np
and an elk was standing right near the trail. We walked our bikes past him
and
the only reason he moved was to chew on something else, it was an amazing
experiance for sure. By the way I have nothing against hunting. Wildlife
will
get use to your presence and learn a mountain bike does not mean death.

I bought my first night light in 1997 and have loved riding with it. The one
thing I always stress to new riders is to carry a small backup headlamp like
a
petzel tikka. If you have a handlebar mounted light then this is vital to
have
for on the trail repairs and is also a backup light in case your primary
light
fails. And also it is always nice to have a rear light so someone else can
tell
more easily you are their.

Chris

=====
Christopher Cook
IMBA Representative for Idaho
SWIMBA President
1700 Irene St.
Boise, ID 83702
208-363-1850 (D)
208-794-7255(Cell)

http://www.IMBA.com
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 04:44:40 GMT, "Scott Burley"

<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> To: [email protected]
> .> Cc: [email protected]
> .> From: [email protected]
> .> Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
> .> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
> .
> .That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do

something
> .non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole

organization
> .is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
>
> He did it over his official "IMBA Rep" signature. That makes it an

official act
> of IMBA.


Please note the credentials posted at the end of my .sig, thus making this
an official statement of the body there named.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:37:13 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>

wrote:
>
> .You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime

only,
> .it means no over night use. Sheesh!
>
> Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!


My God, it's learned how to think!

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
Scott Burley wrote:

>Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!
>>
>>

>
>My God, it's learned how to think!
>
>
>
>

That would be encouraging; but I don't think we're there yet. The
ability to point out the obvious doesn't require anything more than the
most rudimentary cognitive process.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly
 
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:30:04 GMT, "Scott Burley" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel
..as
..> .usual> ===
..> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
..before
..> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
..>
..> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night riding.
..
..Hey Mike, you know how you're always demanding that people prove that you
..lie? Well this is it. The original post is reproduced below. Notice that he
..admits to night riding, and complains that some parks are day-use-only, but
..never once says that he is night riding in these parks. He MIGHT be breaking
..the rules, but he has not admitted to this. Now please, shut the hell up.

"One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking
lots
remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight camping."

He just admitted ignoring the ban. Learn to read. QED
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:30:04 GMT, "Scott Burley"

<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .>
> .> .
> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes

drivel
> .as
> .> .usual> ===
> .> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
> .> .>
> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .> .
> .> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
> .before
> .> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
> .>
> .> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night

riding.
> .
> .Hey Mike, you know how you're always demanding that people prove that you
> .lie? Well this is it. The original post is reproduced below. Notice that

he
> .admits to night riding, and complains that some parks are day-use-only,

but
> .never once says that he is night riding in these parks. He MIGHT be

breaking
> .the rules, but he has not admitted to this. Now please, shut the hell up.
>
> "One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking
> lots
> remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight

camping."
>
> He just admitted ignoring the ban. Learn to read. QED


He never claims to have used a park at night, only to have noticed that the
parking lots remain open. You lied, Mike.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:02:57 GMT, "Scott Burley" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:30:04 GMT, "Scott Burley"
..<[email protected]>
..> wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
..> .wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .
..> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes
..drivel
..> .as
..> .> .usual> ===
..> .> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
..> .> .>
..> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .> .
..> .> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
..> .before
..> .> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
..> .>
..> .> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night
..riding.
..> .
..> .Hey Mike, you know how you're always demanding that people prove that you
..> .lie? Well this is it. The original post is reproduced below. Notice that
..he
..> .admits to night riding, and complains that some parks are day-use-only,
..but
..> .never once says that he is night riding in these parks. He MIGHT be
..breaking
..> .the rules, but he has not admitted to this. Now please, shut the hell up.
..>
..> "One thing I noticed is that some parks say day use only, but the parking
..> lots
..> remain open so I imagine they are just trying to prevent overnight
..camping."
..>
..> He just admitted ignoring the ban. Learn to read. QED
..
..He never claims to have used a park at night, only to have noticed that the
..parking lots remain open. You lied, Mike.

Hmmm. He was at the park after dark. Otherwise, he wouldn't have noticed that
the parking lot was still open. He implied that he used the park.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
Mike Vandeman wrote:

> .He never claims to have used a park at night, only to have noticed
> that the .parking lots remain open. You lied, Mike.
>
> Hmmm. He was at the park after dark. Otherwise, he wouldn't have
> noticed that the parking lot was still open. He implied that he used
> the park.


Mike, just because your car is parked in the "Adult Book Store" (euphemism
for **** parlor) parking lot, that doesn't PROVE you're inside perusing the
kiddy aisle. Maybe you're across the street hugging a tree in a park.
(Another euphemism.)

Bill "Oh, I forgot, you say you don't own a car. OK, your WIFE's car..." S.
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>

wrote:
>
> .
> ."Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> news:[email protected]...
> .> > To: [email protected]
> .> > Cc: [email protected]
> .> > From: [email protected]
> .> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
> .> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
> .>
> .> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do
> .something
> .> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole
> .organization
> .> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
> .>
> .
> .I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP

didn't
> .understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even if

that
> .meant he was there after darkness fell.
>
> He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.
>


He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he returns
before the gates are locked, and even if he has such a placard, the odds are
good the gates will be locked anyhow, and/or he will be ticketed for
remaining in the park after closing hours.

The advice to learn to read is perhaps advice you should heed yourself.
Idiot.
 
You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody else
knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed. Day Use Only
does not mean that use is restricted to day light hours.






"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:37:13 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>

wrote:
>
> .You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime

only,
> .it means no over night use. Sheesh!
>
> Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!
> .
> .All that is needed is for the rider to return before the ranger comes

around
> .to lock the gate. I think thej original poster has an excellent idea to

ride
> .without impacting hikers, all he need to do is get back to the car before
> .the rangers come around to lock the gates. A Day Use park is going to be
> .open from 0800 to 2100, or some such time - the actual time is not
> .important, only the idea that there is an opening time and a closing time

is
> .important to understand. Visitors are not allowed to remain past closing
> .time, that is they can use the park for a day at a time, not several days
> .continuously. Of course, you can go back day after day, but you can not
> .remain there continuously through an entire 24 hour period.
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande