IMBA Advocates Illegal Night Riding!



"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel
as
> .usual> ===
> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
before
> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
>
> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night riding.
>

There is no ban against night riding, Day Use Only means no over night
camping.

If there is sign posted that prohibits use after, say 8:00pm, then use
during night time hours before 8:00pm is perfeclty fine.

The OP did not say he wanted to ride at midnight, or after posted park
closing hours, he only said he wanted to ride after dark. If he can get back
to his car before the posted closing time, he can ride after dark.
 
S o r n i wrote:

> Maybe you're across the street hugging a tree in a park.
>
Possibly "marching" to a different drummer?

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly
 
Jeff Strickland wrote:

>He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
>to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he returns
>before the gates are locked,
>
Depending on the location, this can be a sensible move; alerting people
to one's whereabouts & one's projected movements can save valuable time
should an emergency arise.

Pete H

--
Either everyone has rights or some have privileges.
It's really that simple.
Walt Kelly
 
"PMH" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> >He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the
rangers
> >to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he
returns
> >before the gates are locked,
> >
> Depending on the location, this can be a sensible move; alerting people
> to one's whereabouts & one's projected movements can save valuable time
> should an emergency arise.
>
> Pete H
>

I was thinking the same thing. Especially when the placard says, "I'll be
back at 8." But the ranger is there at 10 preparing to lock the gate.
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .> news:[email protected]...
..> .> > To: [email protected]
..> .> > Cc: [email protected]
..> .> > From: [email protected]
..> .> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
..> .> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
..> .>
..> .> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do
..> .something
..> .> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole
..> .organization
..> .> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
..> .>
..> .
..> .I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP
..didn't
..> .understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even if
..that
..> .meant he was there after darkness fell.
..>
..> He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.
..>
..
..He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
..to his expected return time.

.... proving that he does use the park at night.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:09:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody else
..knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed.

Use after dark is not "day use", because it's not DAY! DUH!

Day Use Only
..does not mean that use is restricted to day light hours.
..
..
..
..
..
..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:37:13 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime
..only,
..> .it means no over night use. Sheesh!
..>
..> Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!
..> .
..> .All that is needed is for the rider to return before the ranger comes
..around
..> .to lock the gate. I think thej original poster has an excellent idea to
..ride
..> .without impacting hikers, all he need to do is get back to the car before
..> .the rangers come around to lock the gates. A Day Use park is going to be
..> .open from 0800 to 2100, or some such time - the actual time is not
..> .important, only the idea that there is an opening time and a closing time
..is
..> .important to understand. Visitors are not allowed to remain past closing
..> .time, that is they can use the park for a day at a time, not several days
..> .continuously. Of course, you can go back day after day, but you can not
..> .remain there continuously through an entire 24 hour period.
..> .
..> .
..> .
..> .
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
>to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he returns
>before the gates are locked, and even if he has such a placard, the odds are
>good the gates will be locked anyhow, and/or he will be ticketed for
>remaining in the park after closing hours.

Many people leave the parks at dark or before. He may just be being
courteous to the rangers who would otherwise wonder why there was
still a vehicle around with no obvious person. I've done somewhat the
same (stopped at the gate rangers and informed them) in state parks
where no one cares how long your vehicle will be in the put-in lot by
the river, but might just start to wonder after a few days, because
most of the vehicles are gone before dark there, being daytrippers or
day hikers.

Once the rangers at the park where he most often rides get the idea,
it'll no longer be necessary. "Oh, that's Xxxxx's vehicle. He'll be
out by closing."

I consider it good manners. Rangers have a tough enough time with
park users, whatever kind of park they take care of.

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .>
> .> .
> .> ."Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> .news:[email protected]...
> .> .> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> .> news:[email protected]...
> .> .> > To: [email protected]
> .> .> > Cc: [email protected]
> .> .> > From: [email protected]
> .> .> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
> .> .> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
> .> .>
> .> .> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do
> .> .something
> .> .> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole
> .> .organization
> .> .> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
> .> .>
> .> .
> .> .I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP
> .didn't
> .> .understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even
if
> .that
> .> .meant he was there after darkness fell.
> .>
> .> He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.
> .>
> .
> .He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the
rangers
> .to his expected return time.
>
> ... proving that he does use the park at night.

No, it only proves that he wants to use the park at night, not that he has
actually done it. DUH!

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:09:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody else
> .knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed.
>
> Use after dark is not "day use", because it's not DAY! DUH!

Well why don't we look at the legal definition of "day use"? The Code of
Federal Regulations, Title 36, Chapter II, Part 261.14 (e) prohibits
"occupying between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. a place designated for day use only"
within a National Forest. Granted, local parks may have a different
definition, but "day use only" does not necessarily mean "only when the sun
is above the horizon". Yet another MV lie to add to my collection.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:14:43 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes drivel
..as
..> .usual> ===
..> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
..before
..> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
..>
..> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night riding.
..>
..
..There is no ban against night riding, Day Use Only means no over night
..camping.

Thanks for demonstrating once again just how stupid you are. If they meant "no
overnight camping", they would have said so. "Day use only" means just what it
says: no use after dark.

..If there is sign posted that prohibits use after, say 8:00pm, then use
..during night time hours before 8:00pm is perfeclty fine.
..
..The OP did not say he wanted to ride at midnight, or after posted park
..closing hours, he only said he wanted to ride after dark. If he can get back
..to his car before the posted closing time, he can ride after dark.

He admitted ignoring the sign.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:25:37 GMT, "Scott Burley" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:21 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
..<[email protected]>
..> .wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .
..> .> ."Scott Burley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> .> Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .> .> news:[email protected]...
..> .> .> > To: [email protected]
..> .> .> > Cc: [email protected]
..> .> .> > From: [email protected]
..> .> .> > Subject: RE: IMBA: Night Riding
..> .> .> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
..> .> .>
..> .> .> That's right, one guy on a mailing list suggesting that others do
..> .> .something
..> .> .> non-threatening but possibly mildy illegal means that the whole
..> .> .organization
..> .> .> is illicit. Organized crime, that's what it is.
..> .> .>
..> .> .
..> .> .I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP
..> .didn't
..> .> .understand that he could remain in the park until closing time, even
..if
..> .that
..> .> .meant he was there after darkness fell.
..> .>
..> .> He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.
..> .>
..> .
..> .He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the
..rangers
..> .to his expected return time.
..>
..> ... proving that he does use the park at night.
..
..No, it only proves that he wants to use the park at night, not that he has
..actually done it. DUH!

Yes, it does. He didn't bother to find out if it was legal.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:41:23 GMT, "Scott Burley" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:eek:[email protected]...
..> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:09:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> .You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody else
..> .knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed.
..>
..> Use after dark is not "day use", because it's not DAY! DUH!
..
..Well why don't we look at the legal definition of "day use"? The Code of
..Federal Regulations, Title 36, Chapter II, Part 261.14 (e) prohibits
.."occupying between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. a place designated for day use only"
..within a National Forest. Granted, local parks may have a different
..definition,

So you don't know if this applies, or even if it's IN a national forest.

but "day use only" does not necessarily mean "only when the sun
..is above the horizon". Yet another MV lie to add to my collection.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:45:01 -0500, Cyli <[email protected]> wrote:

..On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
..<[email protected]> wrote:
..
..
..>
..>He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
..>to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he returns
..>before the gates are locked, and even if he has such a placard, the odds are
..>good the gates will be locked anyhow, and/or he will be ticketed for
..>remaining in the park after closing hours.
..
..Many people leave the parks at dark or before. He may just be being
..courteous to the rangers who would otherwise wonder why there was
..still a vehicle around with no obvious person. I've done somewhat the
..same (stopped at the gate rangers and informed them) in state parks
..where no one cares how long your vehicle will be in the put-in lot by
..the river, but might just start to wonder after a few days, because
..most of the vehicles are gone before dark there, being daytrippers or
..day hikers.
..
..Once the rangers at the park where he most often rides get the idea,
..it'll no longer be necessary. "Oh, that's Xxxxx's vehicle. He'll be
..out by closing."
..
..I consider it good manners.

Breaking the law can't be termed "good manners". He didn't know if it was legal.

Rangers have a tough enough time with
..park users, whatever kind of park they take care of.
..
..Cyli
..r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
..Often taunted by trout.
..
..http://www.visi.com/~cyli

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:45:01 -0500, Cyli <[email protected]> wrote:

..On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
..<[email protected]> wrote:
..
..
..>
..>He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the rangers
..>to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he returns
..>before the gates are locked, and even if he has such a placard, the odds are
..>good the gates will be locked anyhow, and/or he will be ticketed for
..>remaining in the park after closing hours.
..
..Many people leave the parks at dark or before. He may just be being
..courteous to the rangers who would otherwise wonder why there was
..still a vehicle around with no obvious person. I've done somewhat the
..same (stopped at the gate rangers and informed them) in state parks
..where no one cares how long your vehicle will be in the put-in lot by
..the river, but might just start to wonder after a few days, because
..most of the vehicles are gone before dark there, being daytrippers or
..day hikers.
..
..Once the rangers at the park where he most often rides get the idea,
..it'll no longer be necessary. "Oh, that's Xxxxx's vehicle. He'll be
..out by closing."
..
..I consider it good manners.

Breaking the law can't be termed "good manners". He didn't know if it was legal.

Rangers have a tough enough time with
..park users, whatever kind of park they take care of.
..
..Cyli
..r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
..Often taunted by trout.
..
..http://www.visi.com/~cyli

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:14:43 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:39:41 -0600, "TJ" <[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .>
> .> .
> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message Snip mikes
drivel
> .as
> .> .usual> ===
> .> .> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction. And I lost.)
> .> .>
> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .> .
> .> .Care to elaborate? You need to read the Code of Federal Regulations
> .before
> .> .you state hiking/trail use is illegal.
> .>
> .> Learn to read. He admitted that he ignores the ban against night
riding.
> .>
> .
> .There is no ban against night riding, Day Use Only means no over night
> .camping.
>
> Thanks for demonstrating once again just how stupid you are. If they meant
"no
> overnight camping", they would have said so. "Day use only" means just
what it
> says: no use after dark.
>

Nobody can possibly be so stupid!

Day Use parks can have a sign posted that describes the park hours as 8:00am
to 10:00pm. The park can be used during the posted hours that it is open,
even if those hours include hours of darkness.



> .If there is sign posted that prohibits use after, say 8:00pm, then use
> .during night time hours before 8:00pm is perfeclty fine.
> .
> .The OP did not say he wanted to ride at midnight, or after posted park
> .closing hours, he only said he wanted to ride after dark. If he can get
back
> .to his car before the posted closing time, he can ride after dark.
>
> He admitted ignoring the sign.
>

No he didn't. He only admitted the he found it less congested to use the
park later in the afternoon and into the evening. He, like you, feels
concerned that he may be ticketed for remaining in the park after dark, but
if the park hours include hours of darkness, he should have no problem.
 
"Cyli" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:07:08 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the
rangers
> >to his expected return time. He does not need such a placard if he
returns
> >before the gates are locked, and even if he has such a placard, the odds
are
> >good the gates will be locked anyhow, and/or he will be ticketed for
> >remaining in the park after closing hours.
>
> Many people leave the parks at dark or before. He may just be being
> courteous to the rangers who would otherwise wonder why there was
> still a vehicle around with no obvious person. I've done somewhat the
> same (stopped at the gate rangers and informed them) in state parks
> where no one cares how long your vehicle will be in the put-in lot by
> the river, but might just start to wonder after a few days, because
> most of the vehicles are gone before dark there, being daytrippers or
> day hikers.
>
> Once the rangers at the park where he most often rides get the idea,
> it'll no longer be necessary. "Oh, that's Xxxxx's vehicle. He'll be
> out by closing."
>
> I consider it good manners. Rangers have a tough enough time with
> park users, whatever kind of park they take care of.
>


You are completely correct, it is good manners to tell people, especially
rangers, that you are in the area, and expect to return at 9:00pm, so when
they find that you have not returned by midnight, there just might be a
problem they should be looking into. But, that was not the goal of the OP.
He thought he might be wise to avoid ticketing for riding after dark if he
placed a placard. My point was that if the park is open, he is able to use
it even if it might be dark out. The OP was concerned with Day Use rules
when he was using the park at night instead of day.
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:09:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody else
> .knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed.
>
> Use after dark is not "day use", because it's not DAY! DUH!
>
> Day Use Only
> .does not mean that use is restricted to day light hours.

I thought it wasn't possible to be as stupid as you, but you proved me
wrong. Day Use means a park that is restricted to use during a certain
portion of a 24-hour period as opposed to use during the entire 24-hour
period. I have no example, but it is certainly possible that a Day Use
park/facility might have its hours of operation as 6:00pm to 9:00am, which
would be almost entirely night-time hours. Again, I haven't an example
readily available, but the definition of Day Use as being for a portion of
24 hours would certainly fit the scenario.
 
> .> .> .I didn't read any suggestion to do anything illegal. I think the OP
> .> .didn't
> .> .> .understand that he could remain in the park until closing time,
even
> .if
> .> .that
> .> .> .meant he was there after darkness fell.
> .> .>
> .> .> He admitted breaking the ban against night riding. Learn to READ.
> .> .>
> .> .
> .> .He said that he wanted to put a placard in his car that alerted the
> .rangers
> .> .to his expected return time.
> .>
> .> ... proving that he does use the park at night.
> .
> .No, it only proves that he wants to use the park at night, not that he
has
> .actually done it. DUH!
>
> Yes, it does. He didn't bother to find out if it was legal.

Mike, this is a proposal! He never says that he's actually done this. Learn
to THINK.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 06:41:23 GMT, "Scott Burley"
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:eek:[email protected]...
> .> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:09:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
<[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .>
> .> .You can't POSSIBLY be so stupid. Well, maybe YOU can, but everybody
else
> .> .knows that Day Use Only means no overnight camping is allowed.
> .>
> .> Use after dark is not "day use", because it's not DAY! DUH!
> .
> .Well why don't we look at the legal definition of "day use"? The Code of
> .Federal Regulations, Title 36, Chapter II, Part 261.14 (e) prohibits
> ."occupying between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. a place designated for day use
only"
> .within a National Forest. Granted, local parks may have a different
> .definition,
>
> So you don't know if this applies, or even if it's IN a national forest.

No, I don't. However, this is documented evidence of the term "day use only"
refering to specific times rather than simply the hours of daylight. On the
other side of this, you don't know what the situtation is either, and yet
you insist that the OP is breaking the law.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]

=====
Grand High Priest
VP of Pork Rind Ingestion
East Chicago Division
Church of Kibology
He's Fred, Jim.
www.kibo.com
=====
 
On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:24:58 +0000, Mike Vandeman wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:37:13 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .You're an idiot Vandeman. Day Use DOES NOT mean use during the daytime only,
> .it means no over night use. Sheesh!
>
> Hint: Day is not the same as night. DUH!

First off, IANAL, and this is all just my opinion..

However, in this country (UK) the legal meanings of daytime and night-time
seem to have no clear definition. However, most statutory guidance seems
to have adopted something similar to the following definition of
night-time: the period during which the adult population can reasonably be
expected to be asleep, or is preparing for sleep.

Most local authorities seem to interpret the night-time period to be 11pm
until 7am. Therefore "daytime use only" could logically be construed to
mean between 7am and 11pm. In the middle of winter, this would include
about 5-6 hours in the evening during which it is dark.

From the wording of the original post, which is relaxed in style and
language, it seems very likely that the IMBA representative
actually meant riding while it was dark, rather than at night per say.
After all, mountain bikers are people too and many enjoy their sleep.

A rigid interpretation of the word 'night' as meaning when the park is
closed, over the more common use in a relaxed English style where it is
often taken to mean the hours when it is dark, would seem unreasonable.

Therefore it seems to me that the IMBA representative was simply promoting
riding in the EVENING while the park was still open, which would be in
keeping with 'daytime use'. Apart from being the only time that people
with 9-5 jobs can actually get to the parks, this is likely to reduce the
probability of trail use conflicts as there are very few other users
around.

Most of the parks here are open during winter evenings, despite the fact
that is is dark. They usually close the car park gates when they
shut, as a visible sign to dissuade people from entering.

Riding in the dark evenings while the park is open seems like a sensible
suggestion to me, provided they take sensible precautions in case they
sustain a debilitating injury.

DUH!

2trax.

> .
> .All that is needed is for the rider to return before the ranger comes around
> .to lock the gate. I think thej original poster has an excellent idea to ride
> .without impacting hikers, all he need to do is get back to the car before
> .the rangers come around to lock the gates. A Day Use park is going to be
> .open from 0800 to 2100, or some such time - the actual time is not
> .important, only the idea that there is an opening time and a closing time is
> .important to understand. Visitors are not allowed to remain past closing
> .time, that is they can use the park for a day at a time, not several days
> .continuously. Of course, you can go back day after day, but you can not
> .remain there continuously through an entire 24 hour period.
> .
> .
> .
> .

>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
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