In the drops

[CAMPYBOB]

Cat. 5's doing it Cat. 5 style!



Cat. 4's in San Antonio diving into a turn, mostly on the hoods.



Even the San Antonio 1/2's are emulating the 5's! Hold yo' line you slam stem rookie!



Dave, getting all aero and trying to follow my vicious attack at the Capitol Crit.!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

MoPro Midtown crit, jus' us lowly Cat. 4/5's here, boss!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Big boy races too. He might not even make it down to the drops, but damnit, he's Cat. 5 racing in the Velo Allegro St. Pats Day Crit.!



Off the back and chasing incorrectly.



Meanwhile, further towards the front of the race...

 

[CAMPYBOB]

In the saddle or out...put on your best grimace, lay down the watts and most off all...grip those damned hoods for all your worth!



And don't forget to take your EPO.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Keep on clippin' em bob, it still does not make a compelling argument, it just shows a lot of low category riders who either are not challenged at their current race pace or lack some basic skills or bike positioning. But you are clearly the master of image surfing and my hat's off to you for that. Where's that photo of Cav winning a high speed pro bunch sprint on the hoods?

...Yes and no. You seem to be advocating using them...well..your example of not having the engine baffles me. If you don't have the engine and are off the back, we could ride with our aero ass facing forward and not get back on. Same with going off the front. If you don't make your power down low or breath as well down low it's going to be a short, fruitless and wasted effort...

So you see it as binary, someone lacks the fitness and no aero advantage will help or someone has all the fitness they need and the aero difference isn't meaningful. I see it as a continuum and at least some riders getting repeatedly gapped till they get dropped would do better with every advantage they can get and by riding tall while fighting the wind at speed they're just making a hard job harder.

Fair enough, you race how you see fit and I will do the same. I will also continue to coach the riders I work with to use their bikes to their fullest design advantage which means riding in their most aerodynamic position when the wind is their main enemy. You clearly have your own methods and that's great but why you would choose to set up your race bike such that it costs you too much power or comfort in the drops is beyond me. I can almost see it for a bike tourist that just rides the drops on steeper descents but hard to imagine why a bike racer would setup their bikes such that the drops were not both powerful and aerodynamic.

In terms of flat or descending sprints on the hoods, there I've just got to disagree with you. But go ahead, stand tall into the wind when sprinting to the line at high speeds, please come on out to the Pacific Northwest and do that and please coach any riders you work with to do that as well.

-Dave

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Arsenal Cat. 5 Crit. raging on the hoods!



NCNCA Crit., Stan Goto attacking off the front in the wrong position.



Stringing out the field with no regard for flat bar bikes! And smiling as the hurt machine kicks into gear!

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by alienator .

As usual, AOG is wrong.

Originally Posted by ambal .


Do you even ride a bike?

Originally Posted by Dave Pace .

I guess enough people posted that I don't need to defend my position.

---

I used to train with some Cat2s. They were only Cat2 becasue they liked to watch the P12 races. They would sit off the back, out of trouble, hands on the hoods, talk, enjoy the race. At the end they would ride up towards the front and watch the sprint.

One of them is in his 50's now. Saw him doing the Tulsa Tough as a 2 - P12 crits. He sat off the back hands on the hoods until the last lap 3 straight days. He had fun.

To do that one needs to train on a bike not a keyboard.

I just did 5 miles with my pack to keep in shape. Have to go back out now.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Knock yourself out bob.

I guess you still think a lot of web photos constitutes discourse and a swaying argument. I take it you're not a lawyer or anyone else involved in persuasion based on facts and concepts.

But as we've all seen your ability to cut and paste endless drivel in the gum control thread, I guess any rational discussion in this thread has run its course.

To the OP, enjoy bob's slideshow as I'm sure it will be entertaining but I stand by everything I've posted on this thread about riding in the drops when it serves you to do so. But to quote The Matrix, 'I expect just what I've always expected: For you to make up your own damn mind'

Good racing, keep the rubber side down,
-Dave

 

[danfoz]

Here's a 60 something fella racing in my very own local park last year. Anyone guess who it is?



He spent time where and when it was needed.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"enjoy bob's slideshow as I'm sure it will be entertaining"

That's what it's there for!



"He spent time where and when it was needed."

Eggzactly!

And oh...lookee! Damned if he ain't slammed, he's 5 MM from it! And close to a horizontal stem.



As old as I am, I can still get low on the drops and stay there...'if' there's a good reason to do so.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .

I guess any rational discussion in this thread has run its course.

This may be very possible. I will recommend in complete seriousness, that when in mid-pack (like our friend Francisco above), one should remain on the hoods in order to see what's going on around them, and to facilitate Dave's good will in mention of keeping that rubber side down.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"They would sit off the back, out of trouble, hands on the hoods, talk, enjoy the race. At the end they would ride up towards the front and watch the sprint."

In my hay day I would never have made a 2 with the most generous gifting of any ref I knew (and move ups used to be pretty easy), but that is how I raced, how I race in my old age and FTW it's how they'll shovel me into a hole in the ground.

"He sat off the back hands on the hoods until the last lap 3 straight days."

Unpossible! I kind of like riding out in the clean air. It's safer than following a Cat. 3 strong enough to get his paperwork, but too damned dumb to figure out how to get thru a corner fast. As long as they don't hit Ludicrous Speed. I might have to get down and get on a wheel or get shelled!

"He had fun."

So do I! I got a cabinet full of $5 ribbons/medals. Whoop-tee-doo. They don't mean **** except I lined up and had me some fun. All the Cat. 5-4-3-2 bluster in the world is just that. ********.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"...and to facilitate Dave's good will in mention of keeping that rubber side down."

Indeed!

Some poor Cat. 5 was head-down in the drops and the result was a particularly Darwinian case of Handlebar Hooking...on the straight...



I was glad to start age-graded racing three decades ago! The Dweeb Factor is greatly reduced. Sadly, the same guys that were kicking my ass in 1975 are still doing it today.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I've changed my mind.

I've been completely swayed by Dave's points...er...maybe it was these points!



Anyways, I'm all for wimmenz being in the drops all the time.

 

[Dave Pace]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

I've changed my mind.

I've been completely swayed by Dave's points...er...maybe it was these points!



Anyways, I'm all for wimmenz being in the drops all the time.

milk.... It does a body...........

 

[wbkski]

Originally Posted by Dave Pace .

milk.... It does a body...........

Field positioning is important!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Obviously, these ladies are Cat. 5's in need of some serious advice...they have no clue! They'll NEVER catch the peloton (that's racer talk for the larger group of cyclists riding on their hoods and disappearing in the distance) with those huge air scoops in the drops! Werd!




Note the gal in the back riding the flats (gasp! she must have the Big Engineâ„¢) is exposing far less unaero cleavage.

Sit up...zip up! That's yer Cat. 5 crit dog lesson fo' today! And smile for the camera!

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by danfoz .

Here's a 60 something fella racing in my very own local park last year. Anyone guess who it is?

Didn't this guy win the Giro once, and hold the hour record for a few years?

 

[wbkski]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat .

Didn't this guy win the Giro once, and hold the hour record for a few years?

It's the future me in 4 years... but of course, I'm much better looking.

 

[alienator]

Didn't this guy win the Giro once, and hold the hour record for a few years?

I think if Laurent Fignon were around, he'd challenge that statement about the guy winning the Giro.