Is it true that the "round pedalling stroke" is a myth?

[fergie]

Originally Posted by WillemJM .

I don't believe any cat 1 rider, will do a 25 mile time trial in less than 60 minutes, should his feet not be attached to the pedals, making it impossible to have a fluid pedaling style and making it impossible to keep contact with the pedal all the times without one leg oposing the other.

I performed a series of max aerobic power tests on an erg over winter alternating between tennis shoes and clipless cleated shoes. No difference in power and using heart rate as a (average) proxy for efficiency also no difference. I would expect in a time trial the tennis shoe would be less aerodynamic and there would be some losses due to a lack of stability. Specialized and Shimano are both offering shoes that they claim have a ~6 watt advantage. I will be testing that claim on behalf of a LBS for the Specialized shoe.

 

[WillemJM]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


I understand all these concepts about scraping mud, toe'ing down, applying force horizontally across the 12 oclock position, etc. as having spent many years moving my legs around the axis which the crank allows have had ample time to play with doing different things with my legs on the bike, but I am having a hard time believing there is a population of folks who are applying downforce on the upstroke that the downstroke leg has to compensate for. The scenario you describe above sounds about as unwieldy as rubbing ones stomach and patting ones head at the same time, at least thats what it sounds like to me.

Without feet attached to the pedals (when we were kids), if you don't apply a down force on the upstroke leg, it will be like floating in space. Your foot will not maintain contact with the pedal platform. The downforce may be very small, but it has to be there.

Not arguing with the power issue any longer, just trying to explain your hard to believe.

 

[fergie]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


I understand all these concepts about scraping mud, toe'ing down, applying force horizontally across the 12 oclock position, etc. as having spent many years moving my legs around the axis which the crank allows have had ample time to play with doing different things with my legs on the bike, but I am having a hard time believing there is a population of folks who are applying downforce on the upstroke that the downstroke leg has to compensate for. The scenario you describe above sounds about as unwieldy as rubbing ones stomach and patting ones head at the same time, at least thats what it sounds like to me.

That's okay Noel doesn't understand it either. That's why is side steps the fact that force measuring pedals have been around for years but conveniently claims the Brim Brothers pedals will prove him right when they are bogged down with technical issues and now they claim will be launched late in 2013. Same with Garmin pedals.

 

[n crowley]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


but I am having a hard time believing there is a population of folks who are applying downforce on the upstroke that the downstroke leg has to compensate for.

That was one of the first things BrimBros engineer noticed when he began using his new PM.

 

[jpwkeeper]

Originally Posted by n crowley .



Thanks, but nothing new there, like I said, all research is confined to variations of the same basic pedalling style and a waste of research time. Nobody has attempted to tackle the dead spot sector. I hope BrimBros can supply the non sinusoidal graph that will verify my claims.

The trouble there is that I don't think it's possible for the graph to NOT be sinusoidal.

Consider this: How much can you lift by pulling back with the leg in the same position as when pedaling? How much can you do by pushing over the top the same way?

Now, if those two things added together don't equal how much you can lift pushing down with one foot, then it's not going to work.

In fact...I just had a flash of inspiration. I'll bet the "round" pedal stroke feels round because it is, but only relatively, not actually. If you're using 10% of your available muscle capacity on the downstroke (note that number is completely made-up) and 10% of your muscle capacity on the Pull/Push between 11 and 1, it will feel "round" but it's not because those muscle groups have much, much less capacity than the bigger, stronger muscles used on the downstroke.

 

[n crowley]

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

The trouble there is that I don't think it's possible for the graph to NOT be sinusoidal.

Consider this: How much can you do by pushing over the top the same way?

I ignore the bottom, over the top at 12 I can apply the same torque as I do at 1, 2 and 3 o'c, all it takes is a flick of the ankle around 10 o'c and this enables you to use muscles in a way natural pedallers cannot use them.

 

[frost]

Originally Posted by n crowley .


I ignore the bottom, over the top at 12 I can apply the same torque as I do at 1, 2 and 3 o'c, all it takes is a flick of the ankle around 10 o'c and this enables you to use muscles in a way natural pedallers cannot use them.

Even if you could so what?

 

[alienator]

 I ignore the bottom, over the top at 12  I can apply the same torque as I do at 1, 2 and 3 o'c, all it takes is a flick of the ankle around 10 o'c and this enables you to use muscles in a way natural pedallers cannot use them.

No data, no proof. Your claim is empty without proof. Human beings are lousy sensors whose "measurements" are easily biased by many different factors.