Law abiding motorists again



In news:95ad665f-2d3b-4344-93a6-5ee192e45918@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
David Martin <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
tell us:
> On Jan 22, 3:49 pm, spindrift <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Scrap the points, treble the fine for speeders so they begin to
>> realise that even if they are lucky enough not to kill someone their
>> behaviour is still aggressive and anti-social.
>
> Nahh..
> real traffic police. Pull the car over. Clamp it for 4 hours.
>
> That'll learn 'em that speeding doesn't pay.

I am given to understand that those eminently sensible chaps in France
operate a similar system. They lurk at autoroute tollbooths and feel the
collar of anyone who cannot have got from the previous péage point in the
time. Then give them the choice of hanging around until their average speed
drops below the legal limit or a hfty fine.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
I thought I saw his name on a jar of marmalade the other day,
but when I looked more closely, I saw it read 'thick cut'.
 
On 2008-01-22, Matt B <[email protected]> wrote:
> The most cost effective solution would be to abolish the tax. That way,
> law abiding citizens would not have to fund the ridiculous measures,
> which are failing anyway, that are being used in a futile attempt to
> collect the few last pounds of the tax.

I agree; the road tax (vehicle exise duty) is pointless and expensive to
collect. Instead, an extra 1p or 2p on petrol duty could replace it. It
would be fair - those who drove more pay a larger contribution, those
who drive less efficient vehicles pay more, foreign vehicles in the
country for anything more than a day trip would inevitably have to pay
it too - and it would completely remove the expense of having to collect
another tax.

MOT and insurance details are already searchable realtime by the police,
so it's not needed as some kind of evidence of insurance or MOT (in any
case, the tax disc hardly counts as evidence of insurance - the vehicle
owner can simply cancel insurance the next day, and the tax disc could
quite easily be issued in the last month of the MOT's validity).

The tax disc is an anachronism that clutters windscreens and merely
makes for a contribution of reducing the driver's view of the road. If
people really felt they needed the comfort measure of proof of insurance
or MOT displayed on the vehicle, well, have the insurance companies
change the insurance certificates to small stickers that can be placed
on the windscreen (that's what they do in Jersey, where there is
no tax disc), same for the MOT as well. But with it being real time
searchable by the authorities, there's really no need.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
 
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008, Dylan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> MOT and insurance details are already searchable realtime by the police,

LOL.

Last time I dealt with them I had more up-to-date information from
publicly accessible databases than the police did.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
spindrift wibbled

> On 23 Jan, 07:32, "Paul - ***" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > spindrift wibbled
> >
> > > "Sorry, I can't recall a headline of "Lycra Nazis". "

> Don't deny this sentiment exists matey.

I never said it didn't exist.

> Besides, the hypocrisy on this thread is amazing.
>
> For instance, can you think of how much "Speed kills" propaganda
> you've been subjected to?

Nope, it's not something that occurs to me or that I worry about or
even think about.

> I can't the last two road safety ads I've seen have been about drunk
> driving and teenagers texting when crossing the road.
>
> And yet...
>
> when it's pointed out that people up and down the country are
> protesting for lower limits and more detection and punishment for
> speeding drivers, it is claimed that all these people are victims of
> this "propaganda".

Sorry, you lost me.

> Conversely, the national press articles above calling cyclists nazis
> are just a joke, nothing to worry about, where's your sense of humour?
>
> You seriously don't see a contradiction here?

Heheheh, you adding further topics into a question I asked seems like
you're assuming rather a lot ... I asked about Lycra Nazis as I hadn't
seen the term used outside of this newsgroup. You supplied quotes,
then fine. To be honest I think you're over-reacting. I'm a walker,
cyclist, driver etc and yet I hadn't seen any of those articles until
you posted them.

My world isn't polarised so much that there are 'cyclists' and
'drivers', I'm both or one of them at different times, but always have
a viewpoint that whatever I'm doing affects others.

--
Paul - ***

'96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch'
'98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed'
Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough'
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Matt B wrote:
>> Like all the men in the country who don't do their mandatory archery
>> practice each Sunday?
>
> What mandatory archery practice would this be, then?

The one you are supposed to do in the church grounds rather than playing
football. Although it is probably no longer on the statute books.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Evolution is a harsh mistress.
 
Don Whybrow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Matt B wrote:
>>> Like all the men in the country who don't do their mandatory archery
>>> practice each Sunday?
>>
>> What mandatory archery practice would this be, then?
>
> The one you are supposed to do in the church grounds rather than playing
> football. Although it is probably no longer on the statute books.

There are a lot of old laws that have never been repealed, that are just
quietly ignored. Many of the puritan law brought in whilst Cromwell was
a dictator are still on statute books, but ignored, e.g. it is illegal
to eat mince pies.

I also read about one the allows you to shoot welsh men at night with a
bow and arrow in certain cities, which goes back to when we had some
trouble with the welsh.

Martin.
 
"Martin Dann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don Whybrow wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Matt B wrote:
>>>> Like all the men in the country who don't do their mandatory archery
>>>> practice each Sunday?
>>>
>>> What mandatory archery practice would this be, then?
>>
>> The one you are supposed to do in the church grounds rather than playing
>> football. Although it is probably no longer on the statute books.
>
> There are a lot of old laws that have never been repealed, that are just
> quietly ignored. Many of the puritan law brought in whilst Cromwell was a
> dictator are still on statute books, but ignored, e.g. it is illegal to
> eat mince pies.

I think most of these have actually been tidied up - ISTR some ongoing
project to get rid of them. But I CBA to look any further :)

cheers,
clive
 
Martin Dann wrote:
> Don Whybrow wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Matt B wrote:
>>>> Like all the men in the country who don't do their mandatory archery
>>>> practice each Sunday?
>>>
>>> What mandatory archery practice would this be, then?
>>
>> The one you are supposed to do in the church grounds rather than
>> playing football. Although it is probably no longer on the statute books.
>
> There are a lot of old laws that have never been repealed, that are just
> quietly ignored. Many of the puritan law brought in whilst Cromwell was
> a dictator are still on statute books, but ignored, e.g. it is illegal
> to eat mince pies.
>
> I also read about one the allows you to shoot welsh men at night with a
> bow and arrow in certain cities, which goes back to when we had some
> trouble with the welsh.
>
> Martin.


You will have a lot more if you don't use the capital in the proper noun!
 
Don Whybrow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Matt B wrote:
>>> Like all the men in the country who don't do their mandatory archery
>>> practice each Sunday?
>>
>> What mandatory archery practice would this be, then?
>
> The one you are supposed to do in the church grounds rather than playing
> football. Although it is probably no longer on the statute books.

According to Clive Feather, at least, it was probably abolished in 1863
and quite definitely abolished in 1960. Even if you don't accept the
earlier date, that's getting on for 50 years ago

http://www.archery.mysaga.net/archlaws.html

What's next, taxi drivers required to keep a bale of hay in the back?
LED lights illegal? Right to remain silent?


-dan
 
In news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> What's next, taxi drivers required to keep a bale of hay in the back?

That one went in 1976...

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Barley, barley, barley, world cruise. You never see a farmer on
a bike.
 
Quoting Martin Dann <[email protected]>:
>There are a lot of old laws that have never been repealed, that are just
>quietly ignored. Many of the puritan law brought in whilst Cromwell was
>a dictator are still on statute books, but ignored, e.g. it is illegal
>to eat mince pies.

Why do people spout these urban myths?

The Restoration in 1660 invalidated all laws passed since 1642, as 30
seconds with http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/ will verify.

The "shooting Welshmen" one, the "archery practice" one - why does anyone
believe this drivel?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
Today is Gloucesterday, January.
 
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:05:38 GMT,
Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I also read about one the allows you to shoot welsh men at night with a
> bow and arrow in certain cities, which goes back to when we had some
> trouble with the welsh.
>
There was a thing about daft laws on the BBC website no so long ago.

IIRC there is one that says you can kill a Scotsman in York if he's
carrying a sword.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
 
On 24 Jan 2008 13:57:46 +0000 (GMT),
David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:
> Quoting Martin Dann <[email protected]>:
>>There are a lot of old laws that have never been repealed, that are just
>>quietly ignored. Many of the puritan law brought in whilst Cromwell was
>>a dictator are still on statute books, but ignored, e.g. it is illegal
>>to eat mince pies.
>
> Why do people spout these urban myths?
>
> The Restoration in 1660 invalidated all laws passed since 1642, as 30
> seconds with http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/ will verify.
>
> The "shooting Welshmen" one, the "archery practice" one - why does anyone
> believe this drivel?

Because respectable sites like
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6204511.stm
report 'The list of "bizarre rules" has been drawn up by Swansea law
firm John Collins and Partners.'

or:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/items/04/2006_03_mon.shtml

"The Law Society and the law commission have an exhibition this week to
highlight some ancient laws. Did you know it is forbidden to fly a kite
in the street or to wilfully disturb someone by ringing their doorbell?
John Saunders is head of the statute law revision team."


or the one I was thinking of (last updated 7th Nov)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7081038.stm

These included a ban on firing a cannon close to a dwelling house (Met
Police Act 1839); a ban on the use of any slide upon ice or snow (Town
Police Clauses Act 1847); and the prohibition of driving cattle through
the streets of London (Metropolitan Streets Act 1867).

An ongoing cull of obsolete laws by the statute law revision team, has
seen 2,000 abolished since 1965.

Dead whales

Among the most ridiculous laws listed by UKTV Gold were:

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament (27%)

It could be regarded an act of treason to place a postage stamp
bearing the British king or queen's image upside-down (7%)

Eating mince pies on Christmas Day is banned (5%)

In the UK, a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she
wants (4%)

The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically
becomes the property of the King, and the tail of the Queen (3.5%)

It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him
to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him
knowing (3%)

It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of
armour (3%)

* This is an amended version of an earlier story which included
* several examples of laws from the survey which we have been
* unable to verify, and these have been removed.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
 
spindrift <[email protected]> wrote:

> "I wonder what your point was?"
>
> Possibly that the acres of newsprint devoted to "lycra nazis" strikes
> one as strange considering there are more untaxed cars on the roads
> (1.25m) than regular cycle commuters (1m)

Unfortunately, you are believing the statistics given.
On another group, a debate has been going on about 4 in 10 motorcyclists
do not tax their bike.
It seems an unbelievably high figure, and when it is looked at closer,
it is unbelievable.
The data was not done over the whole Counrty, it was in one small
area.And there were no controls over how many times an untaxed vehicle
was counted, so if that vehicle went past twice, and only 3 other taxed
vehicles went past, you have the statistic that 4 in 10 are untaxed.
Dont believie all you read.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
 
A.Lee writtificated

> The data was not done over the whole Counrty, it was in one small
> area.And there were no controls over how many times an untaxed vehicle
> was counted, so if that vehicle went past twice, and only 3 other taxed
> vehicles went past, you have the statistic that 4 in 10 are untaxed.

Were there any controls over how many times taxed vehicles were counted?
It could be that it's an underestimate - eeek
 
Quoting Tim Woodall <[email protected]>:
>David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Why does anyone believe this drivel?
>Eating mince pies on Christmas Day is banned (5%)
>* This is an amended version of an earlier story which included
>* several examples of laws from the survey which we have been
>* unable to verify, and these have been removed.

So even _after_ examination, this list includes one which has certainly
not been true since 1660 and probably never was. The whole thing is most
likely utter rubbish.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, January.
 
Dylan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:


> The tax disc is an anachronism that clutters windscreens and merely
> makes for a contribution of reducing the driver's view of the road.

Do you actually believe this is an issue? From the driver's seat of even
my wife's Mini (not a MINI but a small car), I'm quite sure the tax disc
obscures no part of the road that the driver needs to see. Indeed, it is
not permissible for anything stuck to the windscreen to encroach more
than 10mm into its wipeable area.

I agree, however, that there are better ways of checking for MOT and
insurance.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
 
In article <1ibbxn5.oms8r41lectjeN%
[email protected]>, Ekul Namsob
[email protected] says...

> I agree, however, that there are better ways of checking for MOT and
> insurance.
>
I expect that wider use of ANPR and automated road charging will lead to
tax discs becoming largely irrelevant in the not-too-distant future.
 
"Tim Woodall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:05:38 GMT,
> Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I also read about one the allows you to shoot welsh men at night with a
>> bow and arrow in certain cities, which goes back to when we had some
>> trouble with the welsh.
>>
> There was a thing about daft laws on the BBC website no so long ago.
>
> IIRC there is one that says you can kill a Scotsman in York if he's
> carrying a sword.

Ye can try anyway...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Law abiding motorists
Replies
38
Views
1K
UK and Europe
Tony Raven
T
R
  • Locked
((Otherwise Law-Abiding)) Motorists...
Replies
17
Views
1K
UK and Europe
Burt
B
M
Law-abiding majority 'is a myth'
Replies
217
Views
3K
UK and Europe
Matt B
M
D
Peter Bone MP calls for helmet law
Replies
10
Views
604
UK and Europe
Martin
M
P
Yet another official "no helmet law must be bad" report
Replies
48
Views
1K
UK and Europe
David Damerell
D
Top Bottom Back