Left turning buses



T

Tim Woodall

Guest
Bit of non-excitement from my commute today but shows how easily someone
can get caught inside a left turning bus.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/bus/

is the frame by frame "adventure". If you go to about four seconds in
(hopefully the controls are obvious) you can see that I hover behind the
bus although it's not indicating to turn left and you could easily be
fooled into thinking it's in the RH lane to go straight on. (LH lane is
marked turn left only on the road)


There's also a 30 second mpg of this clip. It's not so obvious here that
I do actually wait behind the bus and it would have been easy for me to
have got level with the front of the bus before it started to turn.

https://www.woodall.me.uk/bus/bus.mpg (2883584 bytes)


About 26 seconds into the clip the bus puts its left indicator on so it
does work.


Tim.

p.s. As I post this I'm copying all the images up to the server so it
will be a few minutes before the full 30 seconds frame by frame are
available.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
 
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:19:01 +0000, Tim Woodall wrote:
> Bit of non-excitement from my commute today but shows how easily someone
> can get caught inside a left turning bus.

Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
 
On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
> Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?

I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.

One of my colleagues was, just a couple of weeks ago, knocked down by
a hit and run driver (heavily bruised and a bent wheel, but thankfully
otherwise okay). Whilst the police were very sympathetic, there was
little they could do without a numberplate or good description of the
car. Had she had a camera, that might have been different.

Most importantly, if a higher proportion of cyclists used cameras then
I'm certain that drivers would generally be more careful passing bikes
since there would be a real possibility that they're being recorded.
 
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:34:18 -0700, thweylan wrote:
> On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
>
> I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
> level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
> avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.

I had a load of abuse followed by the remains of a McDonalds hurled at me
a while back. Wish I could have had that recorded.
 
Membrane <[email protected]> wrote:

>http://www.woodall.me.uk/bus/bus.mpg (2883584 bytes)

I wondered if these cameras at full 640x480 resolution would allow
number plates to be read so that they could be used to record for
example a daily commute with the video serving as evidence in case of an
hit and run accident or serious traffic offence etc.

Having stepped though the frames of this video it would seem unlikely,
only the license plate of the bus was decipherable, and even that one
with difficulty. A bright sky causes vehicles to get very dark, and the
strong JPEG compression distorts the image considerably unless you get
very close, although this may have been negatively affected by
transcoding from the presumed original AVI/MPEG-4 format to MPEG-1. I
didn't manage to clear the image up noticeably with a quick dabble with
image editing software.

--
Membrane
 
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007, [email protected] <> wrote:
>
> One of my colleagues was, just a couple of weeks ago, knocked down by
> a hit and run driver (heavily bruised and a bent wheel, but thankfully
> otherwise okay). Whilst the police were very sympathetic, there was
> little they could do without a numberplate or good description of the
> car. Had she had a camera, that might have been different.

FWIW, I was recently deliberately knocked down and required hospital
treatment, the police have the number plate and a good description of
teh vehicle from me and at least two witnesses, but claim there is
nothing they can do.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
On Jun 20, 1:34 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
>
> I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
> level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
> avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.
>

The other thing I've noticed since I've started doing this is that I
ride much more assertively and much more carefully.

The thought of the peer review "you should have been riding further
out", "you shouldn't have gone through that gap" if I do come a
cropper even if it's "not my fault(tm)" makes me take that extra bit
of care and doesn't actually affect my journey times (at least the
effect is well below the noise).

(The camera sometimes makes it look worse than it is - sometimes I'll
be moving out and then suddenly there's a motorbike next to me. In
actual fact I've seen the motorbike and I'm moving out behind it but
because the field of view isn't very wide the first you see of the
motorbike it looks like I'm about to hit it)


And it gives you the ability to review what went wrong when you do
have a near miss.

http://www.woodall.me.uk/journey/20070604/
was a classic left hook. You can be sure that had we collided the car
would have been indicating for ages and I had "deliberately" ridden
into the side of it.

(sorry I don't have an mpg for that one - I hadn't worked out how to
do that at the time - I might still have the original avi)

At the time this happened, while I was doing an emergency stop I could
see the indicator on the car flashing and I was thinking "how did I
miss that earlier" (and the whole thing took less than 4 seconds - it
felt a lot longer than that at the time.)

In actual fact it wasn't that close - I probably had another ten or so
feet of braking room - enough that I didn't actually have to put a
foot down - but while I was braking I really didn't think I would make
it. (You can tell when you're really braking hard on the Brompton
because the bike starts to fold up under you)

Tim.
 
On Jun 20, 2:05 pm, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> FWIW, I was recently deliberately knocked down and required hospital
> treatment, the police have the number plate and a good description of
> teh vehicle from me and at least two witnesses, but claim there is
> nothing they can do.
>
> regards, Ian SMith

How on earth do they figure that out? Surely they have all the info
they need? Or do all crimes have to be committed on camera, in front
of several police officers, in order to remove any possible doubt?

Rob
 
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 20, 2:05 pm, Ian Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I was recently deliberately knocked down and required hospital
> > treatment, the police have the number plate and a good description of
> > teh vehicle from me and at least two witnesses, but claim there is
> > nothing they can do.
>
> How on earth do they figure that out? Surely they have all the info
> they need? Or do all crimes have to be committed on camera, in front
> of several police officers, in order to remove any possible doubt?

Registered to a non-existent address, untaxed, uninsured and too much
bother, I think.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:09:22 -0000 someone who may be
[email protected] wrote this:-

>How on earth do they figure that out? Surely they have all the info
>they need? Or do all crimes have to be committed on camera, in front
>of several police officers, in order to remove any possible doubt?

That rather depends on what the alleged crime is and who the alleged
victim is.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
>
> I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
> level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
> avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.
>
> One of my colleagues was, just a couple of weeks ago, knocked down by
> a hit and run driver (heavily bruised and a bent wheel, but thankfully
> otherwise okay). Whilst the police were very sympathetic, there was
> little they could do without a numberplate or good description of the
> car. Had she had a camera, that might have been different.
>
> Most importantly, if a higher proportion of cyclists used cameras then
> I'm certain that drivers would generally be more careful passing bikes
> since there would be a real possibility that they're being recorded.

I'm with you, there - for some it's simply because there's likely no
consequences. Last week, a group of yobs (I call them that because I didn't
really get a good look at them, until they screeched off into the distance,
it's based on their actions...) hurled a bottle (I'm guessing it was one of
those glass Lucozade bottles, that have plastic on the outside) at me whilst
cycling.

It hit somewhere on the frame (took me a few seconds to realise what had
happened) and splashed everywhere. When I got home, that was the enduring
annoyance - having to clean some sticky, fruit energy drink from my bike. I
wished I'd had the presence of mind to remember the reg number before they
screeched off and 'round a corner. But in the end, I suspect I'd have only
got fobbed off by the Police if I'd reported it.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 20, 1:34 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
>> I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
>> level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
>> avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.

wot he said.

>
> The other thing I've noticed since I've started doing this is that I
> ride much more assertively and much more carefully.

I have noticed exactly the same with myself.

> The thought of the peer review "you should have been riding further
> out", "you shouldn't have gone through that gap" if I do come a
> cropper even if it's "not my fault(tm)" makes me take that extra bit
> of care and doesn't actually affect my journey times (at least the
> effect is well below the noise).

I also think that if I am going to judge other road users
on their skills, I should ride the best I can.

I think that if you angled your camera slightly lower you
would get a better chance of catching more number plates.

I have started using www.betterdrivingplease.com to report
both bad and noticeably good driving.
I have also started posting some of the better shots of
bad driving on youtube. (along with other bits caught on
camera).
 
On Jun 20, 4:24 pm, Martin Dann <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think that if you angled your camera slightly lower you
> would get a better chance of catching more number plates.
>


Yes I'm trying to do that - but what happens is that the camera hits
the spokes when I fold the Brompton and that causes the camera to
point up and then I forget to point it down again.

(Provided the wheel is in the "right" place (i.e. about 75% of its
possible positions) the camera won't hit the spokes or will move the
wheel to the right position but 95% of the time it seems to hit the
spokes square on - I'm not sure if it is related to the hub dynamo)

Tim.
 
Membrane wrote:
> Membrane <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> http://www.woodall.me.uk/bus/bus.mpg (2883584 bytes)
>
> I wondered if these cameras at full 640x480 resolution would allow
> number plates to be read so that they could be used to record for
> example a daily commute with the video serving as evidence in case of an
> hit and run accident or serious traffic offence etc.

They are only any good for number plates up close. IMHO
the OPs camera is pointing to high to capture close number
plates.
 
On 20 Jun, 13:34, [email protected] wrote:
> On 20 Jun, 13:01, Haggis McMutton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Out of interest, why do you record your journeys?
>
> I record my commutes in central London because I'm fed up with the
> level of abuse and dangerous driving I come across. I hope it'll help
> avoid a my-word-against-his in the event I come a cropper.
>
> One of my colleagues was, just a couple of weeks ago, knocked down by
> a hit and run driver (heavily bruised and a bent wheel, but thankfully
> otherwise okay). Whilst the police were very sympathetic, there was
> little they could do without a numberplate or good description of the
> car. Had she had a camera, that might have been different.
>
> Most importantly, if a higher proportion of cyclists used cameras then
> I'm certain that drivers would generally be more careful passing bikes
> since there would be a real possibility that they're being recorded.

Wonder if any car drivers have started doing the same, for a similar
reason as you ;-)
 
Ian Smith <[email protected]> writes:

> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007, [email protected] <> wrote:
>>
>> One of my colleagues was, just a couple of weeks ago, knocked down by
>> a hit and run driver (heavily bruised and a bent wheel, but thankfully
>> otherwise okay). Whilst the police were very sympathetic, there was
>> little they could do without a numberplate or good description of the
>> car. Had she had a camera, that might have been different.
>
> FWIW, I was recently deliberately knocked down and required hospital
> treatment, the police have the number plate and a good description
> of teh vehicle from me and at least two witnesses, but claim there
> is nothing they can do.

They're conspiring to pervert the course of justice then?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
 
"Tim Woodall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bit of non-excitement from my commute today but shows how easily someone
> can get caught inside a left turning bus.
>
> http://www.woodall.me.uk/bus/
>
> is the frame by frame "adventure". If you go to about four seconds in
> (hopefully the controls are obvious) you can see that I hover behind the
> bus although it's not indicating to turn left and you could easily be
> fooled into thinking it's in the RH lane to go straight on. (LH lane is
> marked turn left only on the road)
>

I can see why you thought the bus was going straight on

Things i also noticed, just as the left rear light cluser becomes visible
there is a short burst of light from one of the lights, the video isn't good
enough quality to tell if it is a red or orange light. That turn looks like
it would be impossible for the bus to take if it was entirley in the left
hand lane.

If that burst of light is the indicator then you just missed seeing it
indicate (self cancel can be a ******* at times at cancel due to the
slightest movement, [also when it doesn't work and you end up driving for a
few miles with the indicator on])
If it was a brake light then the driver probably didn't signal at after
placing the bus where it was needed to make the turn.

Having looked at it carefully, the light is definately the brake light, and
there is a sidelight out.

If you have the time and either fleet nubmer or reg plate you may wish to
give the driver a visit to the traffic managers office. 1 for the bus being
in an unroadworthy condition (all fitted lights must have functional bulbs.
Masking tape is one way of removing a light that the vehicle doesn't legally
have to have) and 2 for failing to indicate intention (due to required road
posistion it wasn't obvious to a following vehicle)

Niall
 
"Tim Woodall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bit of non-excitement from my commute today but shows how easily someone
> can get caught inside a left turning bus.

Carry a hammer, and if the bus, or any other vehicle turns without giving
you enough room, hit the side of the vehicle with the hammer, just to let
the driver know you are there.
 
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