Maintaining power for *11* hours

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by kmavm, May 21, 2006.

  1. kmavm

    kmavm New Member

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    Seeing wilmar13's post of a non-race ride inspired me to post about my ride of the Davis Double Century yesterday (5/20/2006). I've never done a double century before; a training buddy at work more or less dared me to do it, so I jumped in without any specific training beyond my weekend long rides (which have never been longer than 110mi).

    I weigh 64 kg, and estimate my FT as 270W. While typing out the units for the following stats, I realized that "TSS" has no widely accepted unit for measurement. I propose the "Coggan" (abbreviated "Cg") as a unit of training stress equivalent to 1% of a 1 hour maximal effort :).

    11h15m56s
    203.4 mi
    6541 kJ
    162 W avg power
    182 W norm power
    511 Cg (!)

    I had no idea what a reasonable pace would be. The average power ended up in the middle of the lower half of L2, which is a good bit higher than I would have guessed. I would think that "all-day" power would be right near the L1/L2 border. While I was going hard, I definitely wasn't going as hard as possible. I'm curious what intensity factor could be sustainable during, say, a serious assault on the course record. Even more surprising, the ride had a somewhat big VI (1.13), and NP was well into the upper half of L2; I wouldn't have guessed an NP that high was achievable during an 11 hour ride.

    Perhaps the frequent rest stops skew things? The 11 hours only counts ride time. I spent around 1:30 off the bike; all that eating, peeing, and filling of bottles really adds up.

    As the TSS score predicts, I'm absolutely shattered today. I haven't experienced DOMS from an L2 effort in years. I'd forgotten it was possible. I'll definitely need 511 Coggans of recovery; I wonder, though, if I'll receive 511 Coggans of training effect. My suspicion is that there's some non-linearity in there when you pile on too much stress in one sitting.

    I saw riders of all shapes, ages and genders riding PowerTap-equipped machines. Apparently the power training religion has escaped the confines of the licensed competitive amateurs. Power meters are going mainstream (well, to the extent that double century riders are mainstream).
     
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  2. downsland

    downsland New Member

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    Whilst I don't know too much about the comparable benefits on very long/hard rides, I have done a few with a Powertap and would say there is definitely a point where you dig too deep and the pro-rata benefit is questionable. It certainly may be better to do 2 shorter rides at slightly lower intensity and recover more quickly to allow you to do another training session more quickly - I certainly would be interested to know the science on how best to ride 6-10 hour events.

    BUT - the other way to look at it is to ask would you have done 2 equivlant training sessions - or would something else have come up, would you have tried as hard etc etc. I know that these long sportive/group rides definitely get that bit extra out of you.

    Looking back thro Cyclingpeaks (or should that be WKO+...!) I did 2 * 200k rides last year that I scored 608 and 610 TSS points for, NP of 251w/Ave of 206 for the first and NP of 263 / ave of 213 for the second. Needless to say I was totally cooked for several days (the rides were on Sunday and it was Thursday until I could 'train' properly again.

    Both these rides were hilly, both started off quite fast and gradually slowed down, and in both cases I spent quite a long time in a group going faster than I should have.

    Also- seeing the other post about struggling at the end of a long ride - I have experienced a similar thing and basically I think it is because you have gone too hard in a section of the ride and burnt too many matches. As somebody else says though - I had some apple pie and custard and a coke 25 miles before the end of one of those rides above and rode the final 25 miles like I was on fire - so the energy levels are a big factor.

    So, to echo your thoughts - some questions for the experts:

    1. Is there an optimum balance of TSS to give maximum endurance benefit / whilst still allowing good follow on training?
    2. Is there any data on drop off of power vs FTP against time?
    3. Whats the best way to train using power for these long events?

    Cheers
    downsland
     
  3. retrograde

    retrograde New Member

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    Excellent idea. After all, Sir Isaac and two guys named James (Newton, Joule and Watt), among others, got their due. Next question is whether or not to use the big C vs. little c convention for 1,000 coggans (as in calorie). Personally, I like the alliterative ring of kilocoggan (aka kcg).
     
  4. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I think the problem is the paucity of quality data. Maybe there are good data for 2, 3 or 4 hour MP relative to FT, but how many people ride for 5, 6 or more hours at their maximum sustainable power? In fact, I haven't seen published data on the shape of the average MP/duration curve beyond 1 hour. Based on my own ride files, I think my MP declines pretty steadily to ~75%FT at the rate of ~5-7% per hour before it basically goes flat-line.
     
  5. kmavm

    kmavm New Member

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    If it's any help, I'd be happy to share a wko file from the double century, and a few 6-7hour files I have lying around.
     
  6. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Thanks for the offer. Andy seems to have a nice little collection of ride files. Before you send it, let's find out if Andy has a database on this point. I know he has measured some of his own multi-hour MPs.
     
  7. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    i've got some data from 12-hr TT's, which are 'popular' in the UK (as well as 24 hr TTs). The limited data i have shows that people TT at ~ 40 - 45% MAP for 12 hrs. I've not looked at 12hr data for a good long time now, but if memory serves me correctly i have four race files with riders ranging from national champion to just about surviving the 12hr.

    Ric
     
  8. sidewind

    sidewind New Member

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    Is there any reference which power levels (as compared to e.g. their 1 hour max power) triathletics use on their 5 - 6 hour competition rides?
     
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