Marathon + weights? Or impossible?

Deb said:

My question is very simple - do I need to pretty much give up my weight
training, or change/reduce it significantly, and become an endurance
weenie, in order to accomplish this goal?

Nope. They go together well. Add in the running, and your body will
change accordingly. You may or may not lose body weight, but how you
carry the lbs will change. You will want to stop any leg excercises
you are doing, and let them become "runners legs". I don't mean
toothpicks, but running is all your legs need.

"Deb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As some of you may know I have been doing weight training for many
years - lots of heavy squatting etc. However I have this new bee in
my
bonnet to do the NYC Marathon before I turn 40. Since I know you need
a solid core of about a year running plus the 18 week marathon prep
routine, I am looking at the 2007 race (if I can even get in - I'll
try
to go for the 2006 race, and then cancel - that guarantees you entry
the following year - unless I don't get into either lottery).

My question is very simple - do I need to pretty much give up my
weight
training, or change/reduce it significantly, and become an endurance
weenie, in order to accomplish this goal?

Currently I weigh between 155 and 160 at 5'5" and I'm very solid. I
squat weekly, 155 is my max, and do 360 on the leg press weekly as
well. Cardio is not in my life right now, but I have run in the
past -
never ran more than around 4 miles however.

Thanks guys!

I don't know about the need for a "solid core of about a year running"
before your 18 week prep. If you want to keep lifting, I'd go over to
news:rec.running and see if you can find a program that takes you from
nothing to a marathon in 18 weeks or even less. I think you can use
many programs written for first-time marathons on little or no prep.
Hal Higdon, e.g., says you should be able to run 3-6 mile comfortably
and averaging 15-25 miles in 3-5 day per week - you don't need a year to
get to that level. He also says people come into his program on less,
especially if they're coming from another sport, so I'd say wait as long
as you realistically can.

Higdon's site also has a 12-week program to prep you for the 18-week
program, so now you're talking 30 weeks, which is about 7 months, not a
year and some. Given that you're strong from lifting, you might get
away with 6-weeks of prep instead of 12.

See:

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar0026mile.htm

for all this and more. Me, I ran the Philly half-marathon 3 times when
I was in my late 20's with a best of 1:36:40 and I've never done a
marathon. I've got it in my mind to try one sometime, too, and my plan
will be to keep lifting and add in 3 easy runs per week until it's time
to start the 18-week or similar program, at which point I'll cut back
lifting. Maybe before I'm 60, though, as 40 and 50 have already passed.
🙂

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

MrRobottow said:

Nope. They go together well.

If by "go together well" you meant "polar opposites" your advice was
right on the mark.

Neil

MrRobottow said:

I don't mean
toothpicks

Addenum: only fast runners get toothpick legs. Joggers (I assume
you'll be jogging it, since you won't be running for time) get pretty
well muscled legs.

Steve Freides said:

I don't know about the need for a "solid core of about a year running"
before your 18 week prep. If you want to keep lifting, I'd go over to
news:rec.running and see if you can find a program that takes you from
nothing to a marathon in 18 weeks or even less. I think you can use
many programs written for first-time marathons on little or no prep.
Hal Higdon, e.g., says you should be able to run 3-6 mile comfortably
and averaging 15-25 miles in 3-5 day per week - you don't need a year to
get to that level. He also says people come into his program on less,
especially if they're coming from another sport, so I'd say wait as long
as you realistically can.

Higdon's site also has a 12-week program to prep you for the 18-week
program, so now you're talking 30 weeks, which is about 7 months, not a
year and some. Given that you're strong from lifting, you might get
away with 6-weeks of prep instead of 12.

See:

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/Mar0026mile.htm

for all this and more. Me, I ran the Philly half-marathon 3 times when
I was in my late 20's with a best of 1:36:40 and I've never done a
marathon. I've got it in my mind to try one sometime, too, and my plan
will be to keep lifting and add in 3 easy runs per week until it's time
to start the 18-week or similar program, at which point I'll cut back
lifting. Maybe before I'm 60, though, as 40 and 50 have already passed.
🙂

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Steve is a tiny ballerina, not a runner.

Neil Gendzwill said:

If by "go together well" you meant "polar opposites" your advice was
right on the mark.

This is WHY they go together well. One builds your legs, the other
your upper body. My upper body looked like a stickboy until I added
weights into my running.

Steve Freides wrote>

Quoted message said:

I don't know about the need for a "solid core of about a year running"
before your 18 week prep. If you want to keep lifting, I'd go over to
news:rec.running and see if you can find a program that takes you from
nothing to a marathon in 18 weeks or even less. I think you can use
many programs written for first-time marathons on little or no prep.
Hal Higdon, e.g., says you should be able to run 3-6 mile comfortably
and averaging 15-25 miles in 3-5 day per week - you don't need a year to
get to that level. He also says people come into his program on less,
especially if they're coming from another sport, so I'd say wait as long
as you realistically can.

Higdon's site also has a 12-week program to prep you for the 18-week
program, so now you're talking 30 weeks, which is about 7 months, not a
year and some. Given that you're strong from lifting, you might get
away with 6-weeks of prep instead of 12.

Thanks, Steve. I think I looked at Hal Higdon's site yesterday. I'll
inspect more closely. My plan is to start running now, as I used to,
on the treadmill during the winter, 3X a week. No reason why I
shouldn't do that. I need to lose some bodyweight anyway.

MrRobottow said:

Neil Gendzwill said:

If by "go together well" you meant "polar opposites" your advice was
right on the mark.

This is WHY they go together well. One builds your legs, the other
your upper body. My upper body looked like a stickboy until I added
weights into my running.

As far as I can tell, marathons do nothing for leg musculature. All the
serious endurance racers I've seen are bone and sinew attached to a
seriously adapted cardiovascular system.

My understanding is that endurance running and strength training are
working at opposites to each other. It's not to say that you can't do
it, just that if you're serious, you need to get serious about one or
the other. Maybe Keith will see this and chime in - he ran a couple of
marathons and was lifting at the same time.

If by "run a marathon" you mean run/walk it and stagger in somewhere
around the 5 hour mark just to say you did it ala the various charity
marathon programs, I suppose then the two could live in uneasy harmony.

Neil

MrRobottow said:

only fast runners get toothpick legs

Oh yeah - look at all those Olympic sprinters. Fast runners =
toothpick legs alright.

Ellis

Neil Gendzwill said:

endurance running and strength training are
working at opposites to each other

Do you mean "strength training" or bodybuilding.

Strength training is an excellent adjunct to endurance running.

Not all strength training programmes are geared towards getting
bigger/heavier.

Ellis

MrRobottow said:

Deb said:

My question is very simple - do I need to pretty much give up my
weight training, or change/reduce it significantly, and become an
endurance weenie, in order to accomplish this goal?

Nope. They go together well. Add in the running, and your body will
change accordingly. You may or may not lose body weight, but how you
carry the lbs will change. You will want to stop any leg excercises
you are doing, and let them become "runners legs". I don't mean
toothpicks, but running is all your legs need.

See here for what distance running will do for your legs:
http://www.paularadcliffe.com/gallery/action3.php

--
Bully

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)

Ellis said:

Neil Gendzwill said:

endurance running and strength training are
working at opposites to each other

Do you mean "strength training" or bodybuilding.

Strength training is an excellent adjunct to endurance running.

Not all strength training programmes are geared towards getting
bigger/heavier.

I meant strength training with the purpose of getting purely stronger,
not resistance training with the sport-specific goal of helping your
running. I thought most endurance runners mainly ran, I wasn't aware
they hit the gym much. I know the sprinters weight-train extensively.

For me personally, my strength training is geared towards as much
strength and explosive power as I can without gaining much weight. This
is for three sports, kendo (where an explosive lunge is key), judo
(strength and muscular endurance) and snowboarding (similar to judo, but
in more static positions). I keep my running sessions short (under 10K)
and use them mostly to build cardio endurance which is required for all
3 but especially kendo.

Neil

Neil Gendzwill wrote>

Quoted message said:

If by "run a marathon" you mean run/walk it and stagger in somewhere
around the 5 hour mark just to say you did it ala the various charity
marathon programs, I suppose then the two could live in uneasy harmony.

Neil

No, I'd like to do it in 4 hours - maybe that's not realistic - let's
say 4.5 hours. I'd probably have to do run/walk, run/walk for the last
6 miles or so. That's how my dad did it. I'm sort of built like him.
Then again, he was more overweight than me, percentagewise, and in his
mid-40s when he ran his first of 3 marathons, finishing each in the 5-6
hour range. Maybe I can do better.

MrRobottow said:

Deb said:

My question is very simple - do I need to pretty much give up my weight
training, or change/reduce it significantly, and become an endurance
weenie, in order to accomplish this goal?

Nope. They go together well. Add in the running, and your body will
change accordingly. You may or may not lose body weight, but how you
carry the lbs will change. You will want to stop any leg excercises
you are doing, and let them become "runners legs". I don't mean
toothpicks, but running is all your legs need.

You've obviously never had to push your anaerobic threshold at the end
of a long race to improve your placing...or win the race. Please return
to your armchair and continue growing that jiggly gut of yours.

cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

Neil Gendzwill said:

Ellis said:

Neil Gendzwill said:

endurance running and strength training are
working at opposites to each other

Do you mean "strength training" or bodybuilding.

Strength training is an excellent adjunct to endurance running.

Not all strength training programmes are geared towards getting
bigger/heavier.

I meant strength training with the purpose of getting purely stronger,
not resistance training with the sport-specific goal of helping your
running. I thought most endurance runners mainly ran, I wasn't aware
they hit the gym much. I know the sprinters weight-train extensively.

For me personally, my strength training is geared towards as much
strength and explosive power as I can without gaining much weight. This
is for three sports, kendo (where an explosive lunge is key), judo
(strength and muscular endurance) and snowboarding (similar to judo, but
in more static positions). I keep my running sessions short (under 10K)
and use them mostly to build cardio endurance which is required for all
3 but especially kendo.

http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_wt.html

Ellis

Ellis said:

http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_wt.html

Thanks for the link. Those are some pretty specific goals, though, so I
think my original opinion still stands, even if I didn't express it
clearly. Training for pure strength and training for cardio endurance
are conflicting goals. A compromise needs to be worked out.

Neil

"Neil Gendzwill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MrRobottow said:

Nope. They go together well.

If by "go together well" you meant "polar opposites" your advice was right
on the mark.

Neil

LOL! I was thinking the same thing.

I've seen one marathon runner that was a bodybuilder. And, he did good but
did not finish very high in the standings.

"Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Neil Gendzwill said:

endurance running and strength training are
working at opposites to each other

Do you mean "strength training" or bodybuilding.

Strength training is an excellent adjunct to endurance running.

Not all strength training programmes are geared towards getting
bigger/heavier.

Ellis

Not geared towards bigger/heavier? Are they sick?

Neil Gendzwill said:

Ellis said:

http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_wt.html

Thanks for the link. Those are some pretty specific goals, though, so I
think my original opinion still stands, even if I didn't express it
clearly. Training for pure strength and training for cardio endurance
are conflicting goals. A compromise needs to be worked out.

I'll grant you that you have to have a primary goal. But IMO you
would do better in endurance sport with an element of strength
training than without. I'm less sure about the other way around...

Ellis