Need advice on restoring a vintage frame.

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by roughelephant, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. roughelephant

    roughelephant New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have my eyes set on buying a vintage peugeot frame, trying to build it from the frame up. Got any suggestions where i should start?
     
    Tags:


  2. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    I don't know if you are planning to use vintage or modern parts. If modern, you just have to buy the components that you like. Keep in mind that your rear axle spacing is 126mm and modern road bikes are 130mm. So you may be limited to a 7 speed cassette and appropriate drive train unless you stretch the frame. If you stretch it to 130mm, any modern road system will work. There are adapters to change the down tube shifter mounts to adjustable cable stops for using brifters.

    You'll also need the appropriate bottom bracket - presumably French threaded.

    If you are going vintage, you'll have to research what was original on that frame and if you want to use exactly that or something similar. The old Simplex derailleurs had pulley wheels that wore out or broke really easily. The original brakes used on chrome wheels were pretty terrible in the rain. I bought a complete Peugeot in pretty good shape about a year ago for $60 and fixed it up, so I know. But mine was one of the cheap models so hopefully you are looking at a good CRMO racing frame if you are going to put much into it.

    Here are some places to check out:

    http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=12

    http://veloorange.com/

    http://www.veloclassique.com/about/

    [​IMG]
     
  3. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
  4. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    95
    Start by stripping it down to the bare frame to clean everything and see what it needs. If the headset isn't damaged or you aren't going to repaint the frame, you can leave the headset races in.
     
  5. roughelephant

    roughelephant New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am most likely going to be using modern parts because my guess is that they tend to be lighter and more in production. I would like to get an insight on where I would get a good model or a frame with special tubing? I'm trying craigslist and right ones are selling fast! Anyone where else I can shop. And how much money estimated am I going to be spending on restoring it?

    I am fairly new to vintage road bikes, but I love them. Any help I can get from you guys I'll appreciate. Thank you in advance!
     
  6. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    I saw a Peugeot PX-10 frame at Velocity Bike coop in Alexandria, VA. I think this is one of their best frames, but you'll need to do your research on parts and decide if buying a vintage frame and fairly modern parts is going to be an economical way to have a nice bike.

    One of the articles I posted had a lot about the different versions - some made in France, Canada and Spain. I don't know what size it is, what they want for it or if they will ship it. This place had a lot of nice vintage bikes and frames donated to them - Schwinn Paramounts (Waterfords), Raleighs, Guerciotti's, etc. They have lots of Campy parts too. The problem is that being a co-op they really don't photograph the stuff or post it for on-line sale. And their prices are not so low.

    http://velocitycoop.org/

    About a year ago I got an old Alan frame for $120 including shipping across country on Craig's list. I built it up with fairly modern Ergo shifters and somewhat older Campy parts that still produced a modern usable bike that I really like. It isn't rocket science but you have to learn what you need. I was able to get all of the parts at one place... a really large bike swap in Westminster, MD called "Stop Swap and Save." It is a huge event with just about anything you could imagine bike related. And the prices were very low in general. (Much lower than on eBay for Campy stuff.) One guy had a huge collection of brand new tires at $5.00 each, including racing tubulars that sold out fast. You could buy an entire modern group set at low prices for a series that was a year or two older than the current version.

    Here is what I paid. All of the parts were in very good or like new condition but it took me about 5 hours to gather them and I might have missed better deals as I had so much to get. Chorus rear derailleur... $45, Super Record front derailleur... $25, Campy aero 25mm seat post...$40 (needed polishing,) a really nice 3TTT Eddie Merckx bar with a very unusual pantograph stem... $35, Chorus crank... $60, Chorus bottom bracket... $10, Chorus headset... $20, Victory Strada tubular wheels with Record hubs and Dura Ace freewheel... $110, Delta brakes... $200 (these were slightly oxidized and I polished them,) Campy pedals ... $30 (I don't know the model and I had to polish these,) 8 speed Ergo shifters marked "Sachs"... $20 (I had to fix these but it was a pretty simple issue of just bending a part that held the handlebar clamp and lubricating them.) I got a nice Fizik Arione saddle for $20. I was pretty amazed that I got everything I needed in one stop at such low prices. At the end of the day, one dealer sold me a box of new and used handlebars, brakes, derailleurs, and other parts for $5 because he just wanted to get rid of them. I used a few pieces and donated some to a bike co-op.

    http://stopswapandsave.com/

    The other biggie that I have not been to (I don't plan on building bikes all of the time) is in Trexlertown, PA coming up on May 5th.

    http://www.thevelodrome.com/flea-market/

    http://www.commutebybike.com/2006/10/08/31st-annual-lehigh-valley-velodrome-bike-swap/

    Maybe there are some swap meets near you in Colorado..
     
  7. roughelephant

    roughelephant New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's awesome I didn't know they had huge swap meets for just bikes. Still in college though. Probably not going to make it to PA or MD anytime soon. Know any swap meets around California? -home state-
     
  8. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    12,596
    Likes Received:
    160
    Well if you could travel a touch, Tucson has a bike swap meet twice a year, and it's a very large and very popular event. I'd suggest you ask some of the local bikes shops if they know of any bike swap meets in California. Googling "California bicycle swap meet california" gives quite a few relevant results, too.
     
  9. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    Sorry, I looked at another post and thought you were in Colorado. There have to be bike swaps in California. As Alienator said, use Google. Also check Craig's list often. That's where I heard about the MD swap meet. You'll need to figure out what you want in advance so you'll know what to look for.
     
  10. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    As AlanG has noted, and as you may know, most vintage French bikes have BBs & Headsets which have "French" threads ... both cups on a French BB have right-hand threads, BTW.

    You can buy a ready-to-install French Threaded. square taper BB from HARRIS CYCLERY ...

    FYI. On frames which use a cottered crankset, you can often replace the spindle with a square taper spindle + matching crankset ...

    • some of the "older" square taper Shimano cartridge BBs have cups which can be separated from the cartridge & I have successfully sleeved one of those cartridges in a set of French BB cups ... many years ago, Sheldon Brown updated his info after I informed him ... Sheldon Brown's site has information on updating vintage frames + on French bikes

    As I & many people discerned a long time ago, the non-driveside of many older English threaded BB cups will thread into a French threaded frame ...

    • unintended conspicous consumption on my part involved modifying some MegaExo cups to fit in a French frame which I am building up

    The BRAKE REACH on many 70s-or-earlier vintage French frames will be LONG ... and, extra-long if the bike originally had 27" wheels & you opt for 700c wheels ...

    • the brake holders on MAFAC brake calipers can usually be pivoted enough to accommodate the extra, required reach if you opt for 700c wheels for a frame which was designed for 27" wheels OTHERWISE you will need TEKTRO's extra-long calipers

    Seatpost size varies on vintage French frames ... 26.2mm is a good bet, but it could be 25.0mm OR it could be one of many other possible sizes.

    FWIW. Here is a mid-80s Peugeot which I rebuilt with contemporary-at-the-moment ...

    [​IMG]

    The particular frame has an English threaded BB shell, so I was able to use a Shimano Octalink BB & crankset.

    When I was finished, the only original components were the rear dropout adjusting screws.
     
  11. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    I think I mentioned it before ... IMO, THAT was a great find.
     
  12. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    That bike came from a middle school where the teach kids how to fix up bikes and then they sell them to fund the program. I bought it before they fixed it up because they had received so many donations, they didn't have room to store them. There was a huge number of bikes that had to go at very low prices but I just bought one and a set of wheels. Yeah when I was done, the bike looked nice but didn't ride that great, especially braking. It also was too large for me so I sold it. As much as I like fixing and building bikes, I can only have so many and I also can't really justify the time I spend working on them. In this case I made about a $200 profit which might work out to $15 an hour. I do have a nice workshop and all kinds of metal grinding and polishing tools. So if I take a lot of time, I can really make a big improvement to a bike.
     
  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlanG .

    That bike came from a middle school where the teach kids how to fix up bikes and then they sell them to fund the program. I bought it before they fixed it up because they had received so many donations, they didn't have room to store them. There was a huge number of bikes that had to go at very low prices but I just bought one and a set of wheels. Yeah when I was done, the bike looked nice but didn't ride that great, especially braking. It also was too large for me so I sold it. As much as I like fixing and building bikes, I can only have so many and I also can't really justify the time I spend working on them. In this case I made about a $200 profit which might work out to $15 an hour. I do have a nice workshop and all kinds of metal grinding and polishing tools. So if I take a lot of time, I can really make a big improvement to a bike.



    Thanks for elaborating ...

    Too bad about the frame's size being a bit too large for you.

    I think that the ride of the vintage French frames must be an acquired taste ... I still like it ...

    • I guess the same could be said about the slack-angled Raleighs/etc. which predate the Japanese-invasion

    OR, possibly, the particular Peugeot's fork may have been bent (out of alignment) just enough to affect the handling.

    FWIW. MAFAC brakes are "okay" when used on alloy rims, IMO ...

    • the MAFAC brake calipers are not as good as similar-vintage Campagnolo calipers, but few were unless they were Campy-copies
    • I continue to like the fact that the brake holders on the MAFAC calipers can be pivoted because a slight downward pivot below the horizontal gives the brakes a couple of additional millimeters of reach & that allows the use of 700c wheels on some frames which originally had 27" wheels ... not an ideal setup, but it works.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    BTW. The original MAFAC pads which were paired with steel rims were really soft-and-comparatively-grabby when compared with "normal" brake pads.
     
  14. AlanG

    AlanG Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    21
    That bike looks very nice.

    When I said the Peugeot did not ride so great, It wasn't the frame I was referring to. If I had a modern build up like the black bike you posted, I probably would have loved it. I guess I am just now used to the crisper performance of newer components. The braking was ok in the dry but in the rain using those textured chrome rims, the braking was almost non-existent. Aluminum wheels might have made all of the difference. I've been riding since about 1975 so I grew up using down tube shifters. But I don't really like using them anymore. When I built up my old ALAN frame, I wanted to be able to enjoy riding it a lot. So I put Ergo shifters and a newer rear derailleur on it rather than keeping all components from the proper era. I did use Delta brakes for the look alone but they take a strong grip to stop the bike. (I know you are going to recommend modern pads but I already have Kool Stops on them.) It actually feels as if the springs in the brakes are too strong.

    If I could justify owning more bikes, I'd love to fix up a Peugeot frame (or Paramount, Raleigh, etc.) with fairly modern components. But I think anything I work on now will be for the fun of the process and I'll have to sell it. I am at my limit of 5 bikes.
     
  15. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,723
    Likes Received:
    126
    Thanks. 99% of the credit necessarily goes to Raleigh & the various component manufacturers, but I'll take 1% of the credit for the specific assembly.

    FWIW. My impression is that many-if-not-most of the vintage brake calipers which were paired with pre-aero brake levers seemed have had stronger springs ...

    I think it may have been due to an allowance for resistance in the brake cable housing as a consequence of galvanized cables ... if not that, then who knows what the reason was?!?

    • I think that the springs on the Weinmann Center Pull brakes may have been more robust than the springs on the MAFAC calipers, and that is another reason that I like the MAFAC calipers

    BTW. For the past year-or-so, I have been toying with the idea of rebuilding the Raleigh with some v3 Campagnolo components -- conspicuous consumption is the only reason I would opt for the more recent style of components over using v2 Campagnolo components!
     
Loading...
Loading...