New STI XTR and reversed RD

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Per ElmsäTer, Sep 26, 2003.

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  1. What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that I
    couldn't figure out how to shift.

    The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.

    Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and keep
    the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've considered
    my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
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  2. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
    > I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >
    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    > especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.

    The first time I tried one of these setups was with a borrowed bike, doing about 30 miles of
    technical singletrack. It drove me nuts at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly. For most
    people I'd say just leave it alone and get used to it, but if you're going back and forth between
    the two systems with your other bike, you might as well make them the same -- and the same as every
    other bike, in case you wind up riding someone else's.

    > Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    > that my shifting at least goes back to normal?

    Yup. Just get a new (normal) derailer.

    Matt O.
     
  3. Bruni

    Bruni Guest

    Welcome to the world according to Shimano. Normal RDs will work, but XTR is only available as a
    repair item. We hope for this to be the case for some time, but who knows. Some of us find a sweet
    irony in replacing the XTR with a Sram Quarz or Plasma model and they're lighter too! Tom

    --
    Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
    410.426.3420 Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my
    new
    > bike and noticed that I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >
    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused.
    I
    > don't think I'll be able to handle this, especially since I already have another bike with
    > conventional XT shifters and RD.
    >
    > Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    > that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
    > keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
    > considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.
    >
    > --
    > Perre
    >
    > You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  4. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Guest

    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected.

    shimano "rapid rise" derailleur. some people love 'em. some people hate 'em. if you don't like it,
    just have it swapped out for the standard model.

    you may need to pay a few dollars more because the rapid rise has not been very popular and several
    retilers have been discounting heavily to move their stock - which may be why it came fitted to your
    bike in the first place.

    jb
     
  5. Bruni wrote:
    > Welcome to the world according to Shimano. Normal RDs will work, but XTR is only available as a
    > repair item. We hope for this to be the case for some time, but who knows. Some of us find a sweet
    > irony in replacing the XTR with a Sram Quarz or Plasma model and they're lighter too! Tom
    >

    Thanks everybody. I'm very relieved that I can leave everything on the handlebars as is. I really
    like the feel of the integrated brake levers and shifting. Does this also mean I can mount an old LX
    RD in the meantime while my shop orders a new (old ) XTR RD?

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  6. Eric St. Mary

    Eric St. Mary New Member

    Joined:
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    I like them personally. Let me know if you want to get rid of it and I take it off of your hands.

    Eric St. Mary
    notamouthbreather at yahoo dot com
     
  7. Per Elmsäter wrote:

    > What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
    > I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >
    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    > especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
    >
    > Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    > that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
    > keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
    > considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

    It is confusing to switch directions. I went through the same thing in the opposite direction in the
    early '60s when the current "high normal" type came in.

    My advice would be to keep the XTR on your new bike, and buy a low-normal (Shimano calls it "Rapid
    Rise") unit for your older bike to avoid confusion.

    Once you get used to it, I predict you'll come to prefer it. Low-normal derailers provide better
    downshifting than high-normal ones, and this is a very desirable characteristic.

    Sheldon "The Other Direction" Brown +-----------------------------------------+
    | He not busy being born is busy dying. | -Bob Dylan |
    +-----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
    617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  8. Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > Per Elmsäter wrote:
    >
    >> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed
    >> that I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >>
    >> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that
    >> I expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    >> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
    >>
    >> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup
    >> so that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also
    >> and keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
    >> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.
    >
    > It is confusing to switch directions. I went through the same thing in the opposite direction in
    > the early '60s when the current "high normal" type came in.
    >
    > My advice would be to keep the XTR on your new bike, and buy a low-normal (Shimano calls it "Rapid
    > Rise") unit for your older bike to avoid confusion.
    >
    > Once you get used to it, I predict you'll come to prefer it. Low-normal derailers provide better
    > downshifting than high-normal ones, and this is a very desirable characteristic.
    >

    Darn it Sheldon. Now that I thought I had everything figured out you come and start confusing me
    again. Your suggestion would however also involve my third bike, a road bike with DA / Ultegra
    Components.

    I can see your point though if you with downshifting mean going to smaller cogs. It didn't feel like
    the chain went clonk, clonk when falling down to the smaller cogs and it was easy to move through
    several cogs with one motion of the brakelever, pushing it down.

    However using the dual thumb lever to upshift to bigger cogs did not feel very effective. Does it
    shift better by lifting the brake lever perhaps?

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  9. Per Elmsäter wrote:
    > What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
    > I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >
    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    > especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
    >
    > Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    > that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
    > keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
    > considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

    Hmmmmmm....... So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts
    double that is.........

    Another peculiarity that popped to my mind was that I couldn't detect any optical gear indicator on
    this setup. Dual lever action integrated with the hydraulic brake levers. When contacting Shimano if
    a Flite Deck was compatible with this setup the answer was no.

    So are we back to counting cogs again or what?

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  10. Per-<< What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed
    that I couldn't figure out how to shift. >><BR><BR>

    Called 'rapid rise'(backfire plus)-works backward, that is the button the when pushed, moved the
    chain to a larger cog, now moves it to a smaller. shimano says it works better, i think it was to
    take Sram outta the market.

    per<< Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this
    setup so that my shifting at least goes back to normal?
    >><BR><BR>

    yes but for XTR, these are a gettin scarce. shimano has stopped making these along with other little
    items, like XTR 113/116 BBs...so if yer BB goes away, need a new crank...since the XT/LX are a
    different spline and road octalink are a different length...ddoooohhhh!!!!

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. Jim-<< you may need to pay a few dollars more because the rapid rise has not been very popular and
    several retilers have been discounting heavily to move their stock - which may be why it came fitted
    to your bike in the first place. >><BR><BR>

    Backfire plus oir Rapid risew is all that shimano is making for XTR and 2004...kinda like left 7700
    STI(double) levers, no mas for 2004...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  12. "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... Per Elmsäter wrote:
    > What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
    > I couldn't figure out how to shift.
    >
    > The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
    > expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
    > especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
    >
    > Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
    > that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
    > keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
    > considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

    Hmmmmmm....... So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts
    double that is.........

    Another peculiarity that popped to my mind was that I couldn't detect any optical gear indicator on
    this setup. Dual lever action integrated with the hydraulic brake levers. When contacting Shimano if
    a Flite Deck was compatible with this setup the answer was no.

    So are we back to counting cogs again or what?

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

    Perre - I've just got a new XTR hydraulic setup. The gear indicators are integrated into the cables
    running from the respective levers/shifters - a little red "bead" within a clear plastic cylinder
    that just wraps the cable. Hard to explain but pretty simple and effective. I'm a vote for. Get rid
    of the thumb attachment. Pushing down on either left or right means harder pedalling; up is easier.

    more information also: http://www.mbaction.com/detail.asp?id=795

    BTW my other bike has SRAM X.0 - I've never really liked triggers and the XTR stuff came with a new
    bike. I wasn't sure I'd like it and I wasn't really worried - I could always stick my SRAM gear on.
    It turns out I like it enough not to be bothered changing, and although the XTR hydraulics are nice
    they don't quite have the stopping power of my Martas.
     
  13. Nicholas & Domino wrote: < Perre - I've just got a new XTR hydraulic setup. < The gear indicators
    are integrated into the cables running from the < respective levers/shifters - a little red "bead"
    within a clear plastic < cylinder that just wraps the cable. Hard to explain but pretty simple and <
    effective.

    Yes I've seen those and was expecting to find at least that but didn't.

    < I'm a vote for. Get rid of the thumb attachment. Pushing down on either < left or right means
    harder pedalling; up is easier.

    Maybe I'll have to give it a try. See if I can work out a deal with my LBS that he will exchange
    them in a month or so if I don't like 'em. Or maybe I shall just put another XTR RD on my roadbike
    and hybrid also ;-)) I'm sure that's what Shimano wants me to do.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  14. Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote: [rapid rise rear derailleurs]
    >So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts double that
    >is.........

    Sheldon has probably tried it both ways for more than 30 miles - by a few factors of 10, say.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  15. David Damerell wrote:
    > Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote: [rapid rise rear derailleurs]
    >> So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts double that
    >> is.........
    >
    > Sheldon has probably tried it both ways for more than 30 miles - by a few factors of 10, say.

    Probably and much due to the advice I received here I decided to give it a try. So far it kinda
    works but yes I have had to step off a couple of times due to shifting too late coming into a
    steeper part. However maybe this will just teach me to shift right. Apart from these minor
    irritations I really love this new XTR integrated with the hydraulic brake shifters.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
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