New STI XTR and reversed RD

[Per ElmsäTer]

What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that I
couldn't figure out how to shift.

The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.

Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and keep
the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've considered
my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
> I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>
> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.

The first time I tried one of these setups was with a borrowed bike, doing about 30 miles of
technical singletrack. It drove me nuts at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly. For most
people I'd say just leave it alone and get used to it, but if you're going back and forth between
the two systems with your other bike, you might as well make them the same -- and the same as every
other bike, in case you wind up riding someone else's.

> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
> that my shifting at least goes back to normal?

Yup. Just get a new (normal) derailer.

Matt O.

 

[Bruni]

Welcome to the world according to Shimano. Normal RDs will work, but XTR is only available as a
repair item. We hope for this to be the case for some time, but who knows. Some of us find a sweet
irony in replacing the XTR with a Sram Quarz or Plasma model and they're lighter too! Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my
new
> bike and noticed that I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>
> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused.
I
> don't think I'll be able to handle this, especially since I already have another bike with
> conventional XT shifters and RD.
>
> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
> that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
> keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.
>
> --
> Perre
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Jim Beam]

> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected.

shimano "rapid rise" derailleur. some people love 'em. some people hate 'em. if you don't like it,
just have it swapped out for the standard model.

you may need to pay a few dollars more because the rapid rise has not been very popular and several
retilers have been discounting heavily to move their stock - which may be why it came fitted to your
bike in the first place.

jb

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Bruni wrote:
> Welcome to the world according to Shimano. Normal RDs will work, but XTR is only available as a
> repair item. We hope for this to be the case for some time, but who knows. Some of us find a sweet
> irony in replacing the XTR with a Sram Quarz or Plasma model and they're lighter too! Tom
>

Thanks everybody. I'm very relieved that I can leave everything on the handlebars as is. I really
like the feel of the integrated brake levers and shifting. Does this also mean I can mount an old LX
RD in the meantime while my shop orders a new (old ) XTR RD?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Eric St. Mary]

Originally posted by Per ElmsäTer
What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that I
couldn't figure out how to shift.

The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.

Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and keep
the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've considered
my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.



--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

I like them personally. Let me know if you want to get rid of it and I take it off of your hands.

Eric St. Mary
notamouthbreather at yahoo dot com

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Per Elmsäter wrote:

> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
> I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>
> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
>
> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
> that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
> keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

It is confusing to switch directions. I went through the same thing in the opposite direction in the
early '60s when the current "high normal" type came in.

My advice would be to keep the XTR on your new bike, and buy a low-normal (Shimano calls it "Rapid
Rise") unit for your older bike to avoid confusion.

Once you get used to it, I predict you'll come to prefer it. Low-normal derailers provide better
downshifting than high-normal ones, and this is a very desirable characteristic.

Sheldon "The Other Direction" Brown +-----------------------------------------+
| He not busy being born is busy dying. | -Bob Dylan |
+-----------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> Per Elmsäter wrote:
>
>> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed
>> that I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>>
>> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that
>> I expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
>> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
>>
>> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup
>> so that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also
>> and keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
>> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.
>
> It is confusing to switch directions. I went through the same thing in the opposite direction in
> the early '60s when the current "high normal" type came in.
>
> My advice would be to keep the XTR on your new bike, and buy a low-normal (Shimano calls it "Rapid
> Rise") unit for your older bike to avoid confusion.
>
> Once you get used to it, I predict you'll come to prefer it. Low-normal derailers provide better
> downshifting than high-normal ones, and this is a very desirable characteristic.
>

Darn it Sheldon. Now that I thought I had everything figured out you come and start confusing me
again. Your suggestion would however also involve my third bike, a road bike with DA / Ultegra
Components.

I can see your point though if you with downshifting mean going to smaller cogs. It didn't feel like
the chain went clonk, clonk when falling down to the smaller cogs and it was easy to move through
several cogs with one motion of the brakelever, pushing it down.

However using the dual thumb lever to upshift to bigger cogs did not feel very effective. Does it
shift better by lifting the brake lever perhaps?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Per Elmsäter wrote:
> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
> I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>
> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
>
> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
> that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
> keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

Hmmmmmm....... So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts
double that is.........

Another peculiarity that popped to my mind was that I couldn't detect any optical gear indicator on
this setup. Dual lever action integrated with the hydraulic brake levers. When contacting Shimano if
a Flite Deck was compatible with this setup the answer was no.

So are we back to counting cogs again or what?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Per-<< What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed
that I couldn't figure out how to shift. >><BR><BR>

Called 'rapid rise'(backfire plus)-works backward, that is the button the when pushed, moved the
chain to a larger cog, now moves it to a smaller. shimano says it works better, i think it was to
take Sram outta the market.

per<< Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this
setup so that my shifting at least goes back to normal?
>><BR><BR>

yes but for XTR, these are a gettin scarce. shimano has stopped making these along with other little
items, like XTR 113/116 BBs...so if yer BB goes away, need a new crank...since the XT/LX are a
different spline and road octalink are a different length...ddoooohhhh!!!!

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

Jim-<< you may need to pay a few dollars more because the rapid rise has not been very popular and
several retilers have been discounting heavily to move their stock - which may be why it came fitted
to your bike in the first place. >><BR><BR>

Backfire plus oir Rapid risew is all that shimano is making for XTR and 2004...kinda like left 7700
STI(double) levers, no mas for 2004...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Nicholas & Domi]

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... Per Elmsäter wrote:
> What's up with the new XTR rear derailleur? I just took a testride on my new bike and noticed that
> I couldn't figure out how to shift.
>
> The RD was reversed in such a way that when I shifted the derailleur moved the opposite way that I
> expected. Or was it the FD? Now I'm all confused. I don't think I'll be able to handle this,
> especially since I already have another bike with conventional XT shifters and RD.
>
> Does anybody know if it will be possible to mount an oldfashioned standard XTR RD on this setup so
> that my shifting at least goes back to normal? Or should I get rid of the STI shifters also and
> keep the standard setup. I left the bike in the shop saying I'll be back in monday after I've
> considered my options. The STI setup was with hydraulic discs.

Hmmmmmm....... So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts
double that is.........

Another peculiarity that popped to my mind was that I couldn't detect any optical gear indicator on
this setup. Dual lever action integrated with the hydraulic brake levers. When contacting Shimano if
a Flite Deck was compatible with this setup the answer was no.

So are we back to counting cogs again or what?

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Perre - I've just got a new XTR hydraulic setup. The gear indicators are integrated into the cables
running from the respective levers/shifters - a little red "bead" within a clear plastic cylinder
that just wraps the cable. Hard to explain but pretty simple and effective. I'm a vote for. Get rid
of the thumb attachment. Pushing down on either left or right means harder pedalling; up is easier.

more information also: http://www.mbaction.com/detail.asp?id=795

BTW my other bike has SRAM X.0 - I've never really liked triggers and the XTR stuff came with a new
bike. I wasn't sure I'd like it and I wasn't really worried - I could always stick my SRAM gear on.
It turns out I like it enough not to be bothered changing, and although the XTR hydraulics are nice
they don't quite have the stopping power of my Martas.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Nicholas & Domino wrote: < Perre - I've just got a new XTR hydraulic setup. < The gear indicators
are integrated into the cables running from the < respective levers/shifters - a little red "bead"
within a clear plastic < cylinder that just wraps the cable. Hard to explain but pretty simple and <
effective.

Yes I've seen those and was expecting to find at least that but didn't.

< I'm a vote for. Get rid of the thumb attachment. Pushing down on either < left or right means
harder pedalling; up is easier.

Maybe I'll have to give it a try. See if I can work out a deal with my LBS that he will exchange
them in a month or so if I don't like 'em. Or maybe I shall just put another XTR RD on my roadbike
and hybrid also ;-)) I'm sure that's what Shimano wants me to do.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[David Damerell]

Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote: [rapid rise rear derailleurs]
>So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts double that
>is.........

Sheldon has probably tried it both ways for more than 30 miles - by a few factors of 10, say.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

David Damerell wrote:
> Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote: [rapid rise rear derailleurs]
>> So at the moment the score is two for and three against. Unless Sheldons vote counts double that
>> is.........
>
> Sheldon has probably tried it both ways for more than 30 miles - by a few factors of 10, say.

Probably and much due to the advice I received here I decided to give it a try. So far it kinda
works but yes I have had to step off a couple of times due to shifting too late coming into a
steeper part. However maybe this will just teach me to shift right. Apart from these minor
irritations I really love this new XTR integrated with the hydraulic brake shifters.

--
Perre

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